Left-Wing Views in Star Wars

Thats suprising Bela, considering that the PT is much less episodic than the OT, which allows it to explore much more deeply the mythological AND political aspects of the SW story. The PT are NOT bad films by any stretch.

 

Think Jedi_Monk got it some what right here. I would also say that the Star Wars movies are neither Left nor Right. They are center. They are showing what happens when a goverment becomes more about handing power over to one person ie Hitler. The Republic is the Romen Empire it got to big and thought nothing bad would happen.

As for the TF and the CIS. Well they are bad but they are also good. They have a point that The Repbulic was losing it's way. They just went around it the wrong way.

GL is not making this movies to be based on Left-wing or Right-wing he's just making them to show how the Sith used every body from the Republic to the TF and CIS to bring about the Empire.

The Empire and Palpatine = in away the Nazis and Hitler.


I think a lot of people should distrust corporations. Just look at Enron, Halliburton, WorldCom, and other companies who are corrupt.

Actlluey(sp) the number of so called companies that are corrupt is not very big at all. What happend with Enron is people forget busniess 101. I won't go into the other two.

But if you really want to look at the CIS. The CIS is made up of planets that are corporations because they saw something going on in the Republic.

Really what GL is showing is that the Republic is the bad guy here. The CIS and TF are not really the bad guys they are just going about things the wrong way. That and they are being used by the Sith. But the Jedi are also being used by the sith.

Again when looking at the TPM and AOTC trying to place things are going on know to show Left or Right wing can be very hard. Same thing with Lord of the Rings.

TPM and AOTC are not based on anything that is going on in todays world. If anything it is all based on past history.

 

As far as historical/political influence goes, the SW films are definitely not about conservatism or liberalism. They're based on the idea of single party states. These can be either extreme right (Hitler) or extreme left (Stalin). The short and long of it is that it doesn't matter what a dictator's supposed political views are. Despite hating one another's politics, Hitler and Stalin were remarkably similar in the fact that they craved absolutey power. What matters is that they are dictators. Politics is just a façade used to form a constiuency.

It's the same in Star Wars. Does Palpatine represent the right or left and how evil one of them is? No. He plays both sides, remember? He represents the man who is out for himself. Therefore, the films are, in their political sense, a caveat against allowing any one person to gain too much power and about the oppression of single party states, no matter what their supposed politics.


-sj loves kevin spacey

 

solojones you right 100% right. The CIS and The Republic themselves are not evil. In fact really if you look at it the hwole problem is that the CIS is just going about things the wrong way. Where as The Repbulic got to big and forgot why they are there.

But in the end the TF, CIS, The Republic, and the Jedi are all just pawn for Palpatines game to get all the power he wants. So really you can take any past person such as Hitler and that's what Palpatine is like.

If anything the Star Wars moive are a fantasy view into the past.

 

Left and right are illusions that are schilled by instruments of the elite class ( mainly the media ). In times of war popular opinion sways to the right. If said war is perpetuated by corrupt politics and eventually is exposed, then of course we sway to the left. But ultimately do we really have any say in what goes on. Take our current situation. Any person with enough brain cells that they might actually hit into each other when floating around in said persons head sensed something amiss about the Iraq War from the onset and yet almost three years later were still there. And why? There were no nuclear weapons. Iraq was absolutely not involved in 9/11. Knuckleheads like Sean Hannity have the audacity to proclaim that this is a just war with an acceptable amount of casualties. We need a draft in this country to gut check all of us sitting around watching this war of luxury unfold on television. And watch how many rich people get drafted.

 

There's really no need to bring current politics into this at all, especially as it has absolutely nothing to do with the influences on Star Wars. Really, I'm just trying to stop pointless arguments, so please?

Anyway, of course Palpatine is able to make people his pawns. That's what dictators do. And then, if they're smart, they get opposition out of the way. The Jedi Purges are inspired by events such as Stalin's Great Purges and Hilter's Final Solution.

In fact, I bet you could trace the downfall of the Jedi (once RotS is released) through the 8 steps of Genocide. At least, if GL writes Palpatine like a real, cunning dictator, which I have no doubt of.


-sj loves kevin spacey

 

Yeah, well Ive posted 4 or 5 times in this thread and that was the first one to stray from the topic. Im only human buddy. Im just trying to make the point ( in every post including the last one ) that you shouldnt beat yourself over the head trying to figure out if SW is conservative or liberal because those are just hyped up, BS words ( they may have meant something a long time ago ) that are used to divide us.

 

All right, well we've already established that it's not about any set of politics anyway I think.

-sj loves kevin spacey

 

Anyway, of course Palpatine is able to make people his pawns. That's what dictators do. And then, if they're smart, they get opposition out of the way. The Jedi Purges are inspired by events such as Stalin's Great Purges and Hilter's Final Solution.

In fact, I bet you could trace the downfall of the Jedi (once RotS is released) through the 8 steps of Genocide. At least, if GL writes Palpatine like a real, cunning dictator, which I have no doubt of.

Well we will know come May 19th 2005. But you may be right that it will be like Genocide.

 

Yeah, we'll know then. I personally am not spoiled so I'm just going on the warning signs and such here. The stages we've seen evidence of so far:

1. Classification: Separation of cultures, which the Jedi themselves have succeeded in adding to. They are shut off from, raised by, and live completely separately from everyone else. And everyone else probably prefers it that way.

2. Symbolization: Associating particular rituals, clothing, etc. with a certain group. This, again, is quite easy with the Jedi, their 'ancient weapons' and 'hokey religion'.

These first two steps are kind of natural among groups of humans, but they can lead to further steps if they aren't kept in check. I think we are likely to see (and have seen bits of, also in the OT) the rest of the stages:

3. Dehumanization: The Jedi are freaks with freakish powers. They present an obvious threat to the 'normal' populations.

4. Organization: Training/creation of combat or police forces that can overpower the target population.

5. Polarization: People are forced to take sides between 'us' and 'them'. Those who do side with 'them' may be severely punished.

6. Preparation: Plans are made for how to systematically get rid of the target population in one way or another. Part of this is just Palpatine setting up the wars and sending the Jedi into them in the first place.

7. Extermination: Pure, good old Sith style Jedi-stomping.

8. Denial: Palps is not about to let anyone know the role he had in the extermination of the Jedi. By the OT, no one wants to talk about them anymore. They are 'extinct', distant, ancient, etc.

It may not follow exactly. I obviously don't know, I'm just observing and thinking it might be something along those lines. It would certainly fit with GL's established ideas of single party state rule in the OT and the PT so far.


-sj loves kevin spacey

 

Lucas is certainly a left-wing radical with a brilliant imagination, so I think his views may have made into SW unconsciously, though I could be wrong. He may have done it intentionally. You all may be right in saying that SW is neither right nor left. After all, this is meant to be a myth, and I think Carl Gustav Jung would comprehend its archetypes and meanings better than we could. Since it's Eastern I imagine Asians and those who are familiar with Taoism, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc. would also understand it better. All of this ties into liberal thinking, though. Let it be called what it may, but Star Wars is a great movie series and mythology.

 

" All of this ties into liberal thinking, though "


Thats the main problem, Virgilius - somehow in the last thirty years the word " liberal " has been basterdized and permanently attached to the left, when in fact every single decent person that lives in and loves this country, be they left leaning or right leaning is a liberal. Our founding fathers were liberal, our most dynamic leaders were liberal. Anyone who values freedom above all else is liberal. Neo conservatives and the evangelical right are trying to white wash liberal and what it supposed to stand for from the collective thinking and memory of the American public - both left and right. Of course Lucas is liberal in the most traditional sense of the word and so is Star Wars.

 

*sticks foot in, but probably will manage to trip myself up rather than anyone else*

I agree..."Anyone who values freedom above all else is liberal" is an incorrect statement. Modern liberalism is the total opposite. Conservatives are for less government control, liberals are for more.

All I want in my life is the freedom to make my own choices, and I am willing to take the responsbility upon myself when I make an incorrect one. The less others dictate what I can or cannot do, the happier I am, and the more freedom I have to pursue truth in my life.

<--total anarchist, but is wise enough to know that most humans are not grown up enough to govern themselves

 

But the point is, cosmetically, at least, the situation in Rome closely mirrors what happens in Star Wars: a Republic becoming an Empire. And wasn't it one of Hitler's goals to resurrect the Roman Empire?

I believe it was Hitler's and Napolean's as well. However they both made the same mistake... Invading Russia in the winter

As for the Left views in SW... Obviously your going to see the Director/Producer/Creators opinions in any of his works

 

It's just fun to watch Star Wars to be entertained and learn from its meanings. The same is true for reading Tolkien's "The Lord of the Rings" and "The Silmarillion," or watching the movie versions. They can appeal to liberals, conservatives, moderates, and neutrals. The political spectrum is a factor in the movies, but I think entertainment comes first to most people. For me, it's the intellectual stuff. I do a lot more reading than watching movies. I only watch them if there's something scholary in them (i.e. SW, LOTR, Planet of the Apes series, etc).

 

Lucas is extremely Left-Wing and borderline socialist (maybe not even borderline.) He named the biggest idiot, bad-guy in the PT 'Nute Gunray' (a play on Newt Gingrich and Ronald Reagan.)

 

I'm glad he named Viceroy Nute Gunray after that terrible Speaker of the House and that terrible president. Don't forget that the Trade Federation's senator, Lott Dodd, is named after both a Republican, Trent Lott, and a Democrat, Christopher Dodd.

 

It's projection. People will see in it what they want to see. One could say "The Empire is the Republicans and the Rebels are the Democrats because..." or vice versa and still not have scratched the surface. Good and evil aren't the exclusive property of one political party or the other, nor are they the exclusive property of either the Empire or the Rebellion.

 

The Star Wars movies have never been left or right at all. GL is not showing that at all. All he is showing is good vs evil. Good and evil are not left or right wing.

Palpatine is only out for him himself. Nute is not based on any one in really life. Neither is Lott.

But it's like LOTR and like someone else said even if it dose not show it they will find it for themselves. The only thing I see if both SW and LOTR is good vs evil.

In SW I see a whole galaxy that is going a long just fine until the Sith start using every one. They use ever one from the TF, to the CIS to the Republic themselves. The thing with the CIS is that they are not really evil. Same thing with the Republic. Both sides just want peace. The problem is that both sides are being used by the Sith.

Both sides think the other is wrong. When really the only thing that is wrong is that they don't see what is going on behind the scenes. The Jedi don't even see it until the end either.

If anything all GL is showing is how one man can change and make people do as he wants. Palpatine wanted a war he got it. He wanted the power he got it. Heck Palpatine used the TF to get what he wanted. The TF was in the wrong by doing as he says and thinking it would be all ok. Little did they know.

Edit this whole left and right thing is just meaning less unless GL can see into the future.


Edit2: 1. Classification: Separation of cultures, which the Jedi themselves have succeeded in adding to. They are shut off from, raised by, and live completely separately from everyone else. And everyone else probably prefers it that way.

2. Symbolization: Associating particular rituals, clothing, etc. with a certain group. This, again, is quite easy with the Jedi, their 'ancient weapons' and 'hokey religion'.

These first two steps are kind of natural among groups of humans, but they can lead to further steps if they aren't kept in check. I think we are likely to see (and have seen bits of, also in the OT) the rest of the stages:

3. Dehumanization: The Jedi are freaks with freakish powers. They present an obvious threat to the 'normal' populations.

4. Organization: Training/creation of combat or police forces that can overpower the target population.

5. Polarization: People are forced to take sides between 'us' and 'them'. Those who do side with 'them' may be severely punished.

6. Preparation: Plans are made for how to systematically get rid of the target population in one way or another. Part of this is just Palpatine setting up the wars and sending the Jedi into them in the first place.

7. Extermination: Pure, good old Sith style Jedi-stomping.

8. Denial: Palps is not about to let anyone know the role he had in the extermination of the Jedi. By the OT, no one wants to talk about them anymore. They are 'extinct', distant, ancient, etc.

It may not follow exactly. I obviously don't know, I'm just observing and thinking it might be something along those lines. It would certainly fit with GL's established ideas of single party state rule in the OT and the PT so far.

I agree with much of what you have said here. Number one big time. The Jedi have cut themselves off. Which in some ways is the reason that they are killed off. It's really hard to find SW being just left wing when there is more to it then that.

Again I will say unless GL and in this case even JRR can see into the futrue then there works are not left or right wing. Great people of art don't go for one side or the other. It would cut off to many people from there work. They don't want that at all.

They want people from all sides to be a part of there works and worlds that they come up with.

Edit3: Oh and one last thing if we really look at the CIS other then Dooku there is not one human that is part of that group.