CT Leia Mega-Thread, formerly Why did Princess Leia criticize her "rescue" on the Death Star?

The script:


LUKE What? Oh... the uniform. I'm Luke
Skywalker. I'm here to rescue you.

LEIA You're who?

LUKE I'm here to rescue you. I've got
your R2 unit. I'm here with Ben
Kenobi.

 

There were many on that topic. But "Family Guy" is known for having Peter's point of view of women be misogynistic, since he's telling the story.

So why not call Han out of on it, in ROTJ? Why only Leia?

Leia was the one who got them out of the cell bay. Something that Han and Luke couldn't do. But again, no complaints from you about Han saying Luke's out of his mind thinking he's a Jedi and saying that they're going to die and that he has no confidence in Luke's ability to save them. And you wonder why I make misogyny comments.

 

This thread is about the rescue in ANH, not ROTJ. Han was not in a death cell, just a prisoner. Leia was already sentenced to death. Nothing she could have done would have changed that. So I repeat, ANY sort of rescue is better than certain death.

She managed to get them all into a death trap. It was the droids that ended up saving them all, not Leia.

But again, this topic is about A NEW HOPE, not Jabba's palace in ROTJ.

Oh yeah, whatever. When labels like "racist" or "specieist" don't apply then just dig out the old "sexism"/"misogyny" thing again. Having labels for every possible opinion doesn't automatically discredit them. I found Leia very ungrateful and cynical to the people who saved her life, period. You are free to put whatever labels you like on me for that opinion.

 

And the cell bay itself was a worse death trap, that the droids could not have saved them from.

 

In other words, you don't have any argument than she's a bitch. And this rescue was just as bad as waiting to be executed since the Stormtroopers were going to eventually break through and kill them. They're going to run out of ammo quicker than the Stormtroopers. And again, you'd be grumpy at your rescuers.

You miss the point.

You prove my point when you cannot come up with anything other than she's a bitch.

 

Sure. And all 4 of them were only armed with blasters plus one lightsaber. But of course shooting yourself out of an area with a couple of stormtroopers is TOTALLY unheard of in SW. Nope, totally impossible in that saga, never happened before or after.

You are the one who keeps bringing up "bitch". If you want to quote me then do so correctly. I said she was being ungrateful and didn't appreciate someone (STRANGERS at that) putting their own lives at stake getting her out of there.

Sure, just like the stormtroopers would eventually stop them from getting to the Falcon, prevent the evacuation at Hoth, prevent the Falcon from taking off from Mos Eisley, prevent Lando and the others from escaping Cloud City etc. Good point. In the SW saga we have many examples that it's always better to just sit there and wait to be executed than actually do something and fight your way out, because fighting the odds never ever works in the saga.

Sources as to how long blaster ammo lasts? How much Luke, Han, Chewie and Leia had? They all seemed to be pretty well stocked on blaster batteries, Chewie, Han and Luke had belts full of them.

On the contrary, if I were Han or Luke I'd be VERY grumpy if I risked my life to rescue someone I didn't know and all I got was criticism. Han really nailed it when he said "would you prefer it back in your cell your highness?" and "I take orders from exactly one person..."

 

Just own the sexist premise of the post and stop trying to dance around your trolling.

Sent from my QTASUN1 using Tapatalk

 

Who are you accusing of trolling? I write my opinions about certain topics. If you feel I'm sexist and trolling just PROVE it. Otherwise why not report me? If giving an opinion about a particular SW scene offends you that much then how about getting me banned? I couldn't care less. If simply stating an opinion about a fictional story is no longer legal then please ban me, mods. Then I'm out of here. Or else why don't YOU stop trolling and making all sorts of accusations.

 

Even Carrie has joked about Leia's grumpiness. But it's no different from Han's grumpiness.

 

yeah pretty much this.

Was she ungrateful? heh probably. But did she need to get down on her knees and kiss the hands of her rescuers? definitely not (nor do I think anybody is suggesting that)
for me the scene and the scenes that follow play like a couple of buffoons who have no idea what they're doing rescuing a princess. Exactly as the scene was intended to be IMO.

 

No, there were three blasters and one Lightsaber. That's not enough to fight their way free, otherwise there wouldn't be a need for Han and Threepio to declare that they're screwed. As noted by Threepio, all access points in and out of the detention center were cut off. Ergo, they were pinned down. There was no escape and Luke was no Jedi, who could fight his way out. Obi-wan was a Jedi and he wasn't there. More on this in a moment.

I didn't say that you called her a bitch, but the whole argument from you and CLee and a couple of others, is that she wasn't nice towards them and thus she is a bitch. That she has no reason to be grumpy, but when it's pointed out that the men are that way, there's deafening silence.

*sighs* You really want to do this?

1. As I noted, Threepio states that all access points in and out of the detention center were cut off. That even Artoo couldn't open a door for them.

2. The chasm crossfire had the twins escape because there was an open door and he remembered the grapnel line in his belt.

3. The Stormtroopers guarding the Falcon were distracted by the Lightsaber duel, which is why they moved from the Falcon and gave them a clear path.

4. The Ion canon outside Echo Base disabled the Star Destroyers, which allowed the ships to evacuate Hoth. No such weapon was in the cell bay.

5. The Falcon escaped from Tatooine because there were only two Star Destroyers and not a full blockade. Vader wasn't expecting problems beyond just retrieving the plans, which is why he didn't leave behind a garrison.

6. Artoo was able to override Cloud City's central computer, allowing them to get to the Falcon.

7. Artoo also fixed the hyperdrive on the Falcon and there was only the Executor, not the entire fleet.

8. The battles in ROTJ were all out in the open, preventing a pinning down moment.

9. Obi-wan and Qui-gon were pinned down in the conference room, but choose to wait for the Battle Droids to open the door.

10. Obi-wan and Qui-gon had a clear shot at running down the hall, away from the bridge and the Droidekas.

11. The Queen's ship was damaged during the escape, which on top of the droids incompetence as combatants, allowed for that to happen.

12. The Jedi were pinned down in the arena, but because there was no dome, Yoda could bring the LAAT's in with the Clonetroopers and pull out the survivors.

13. Obi-wan and Anakin are pinned down by the Droidekas, but just walk inside the turbolift and then take out the few inside.

14. The rest of the film did not feature any pinned down moments.

15. Rey, Finn, Han and Chewie were never pinned down in Starkiller base.

16. The Resistance was pinned down in the base on Crait, but Luke provided a distraction with his sacrifice while Rey and the others were able to create an escape.

17. K-2SO tells Jynn and Cassian that there is an exit in the records room, and that he blocked the Stormtroopers access, so that they had enough time to get out.

Then why did Han and Threepio both say that they were trapped and there was no way out? Why did they act as if they couldn't hold out forever?

 

Han, Luke, Leia and Chewie ALL used blasters, that makes FOUR of them.

Oh, he did well enough against the Wampa AND took down an AT-AT, when he was no Jedi either. Seems a single lightsaber can do miracles in certain situations, Jedi or not; well, even Han used Luke's to save his life on Hoth.

 

Leia had to snatch Luke's blaster.

 

OK, three blasters. Leia threw Luke's back at him right before she jumped into the chute. Still.... pretty much firepower considering how bad stormtroopers are at aiming! AND they were in a strategically bad spot. They had to enter through a doorway by twos and threes while Luke, Han and Chewie could have blasted them until they ran out of ammo, of which they had plenty. No, I'm 100% sure they could have fought their way out, trash compactor or not.

 

Enough stormtroopers have entered the doorway "by twos and threes" that their position is becoming untenable.

As Han points out "I can't hold them off forever".

 

You know thinking about everything she went through during A New Hope I wouldn't be surprised if Leia was on drugs or booze most of the time like her actress was. She was tortured, her planet was murdered, she's in an incredibly high stress job, I doubt the Rebellion has alot of professional grief counselors in its ranks and it likely does have narcotics in the med bay waiting to be stolen. I know a lot of people think that if Vader had found out about her instead of Luke she'd probably have fallen to the dark side but I wonder if seeing his own daughter self destructing might have had the opposite effect on him. His beautiful child is a drug addicted mess and its the fault of him and the Empire that she's like this, it might not pull him all the way back but it might cause him to murder Palpatine a few months early while sending Leia to a discrete drying out clinic somewhere.

Although given Han's old day job Vader might leap to a few wrong conclusions, sabre the man for getting his daughter hooked and send her darkside that way...

 

In Legendsverse, while Leia never becomes an addict after Yavin, she does have a conversation with one:

Planet of Twilight:

For a time there'd been a man named Greglik who'd piloted a reconditioned ore hauler for the Rebel forces, back when they'd been moving from planet to planet ahead of Admiral Piett's fleet. Greglik had been a good pilot but an addict, whose addictions had deepened until he'd gotten himself and seventeen Rebel fighters killed in a stupid collision with an asteroid.

She remembered him now. One night in a temporary HQ on Kidron, when they were watching for an attack, he'd told her about being an addict, about mixing drugs to achieve the exact rainbow of mental damage to match any mood he sought to erase.

"Glitterstim's all right if you're blue," he had said, his brown eyes dreamy, like a man recalling the great love of his life. "Everything takes on a rise, a buzz, a life, as if your whole body had been made new and your whole future with it. And for those nights when you've got an itchy anger in your soul against all the people who've robbed you or jeered at you, there's pyrepenol. Two shots of pyrep and you'll spit on the Fates that spin your life thread. When you're hurting for the girl who could have saved you if-only, Santherian tenho-root extract's your poison: gentle, gentle, like the sun breaking clouds at the end of day."

He'd smiled, and Leia's contempt for the man had transmuted to pity, as she comprehended for the first time all that he had done himself out of for the sake of those easy illusions. He had been a handsome man, bronzed and fair like a charming god, but sexless, as most addicts quickly became, and without the courage to face a relationship or hold an opinion of his own.

"But sometimes there's nothing that'll do it but sweetblossom. It's a good thing the blossom's not addictive," he'd added with a grin. "It could grind galactic civilization to a halt in a week flat."

"It's that deadly?" Leia had asked.

Greglik had laughed. "My darling child, few drugs are that deadly.

It's what they get you to do to yourself that destroys you. Blossom is exactly like sleep. A little of it - two drops, maybe-and it's like you've just woken up, before your mind is in gear to do anything: You just sit around in your pajamas saying, I'll take care of business when I'm feeling a bit more the thing. But, of course, you never do. Five drops is good for endless sitting, curled up, comfortable, thinking nothing, watching addercops spin webs or dust motes make patterns.

Your mind is perfectly clear, you understand, but the starter won't engage. Seven or eight drops and you're paralyzed. Awake, but unmoving, unable to move, like those mornings when you open your eyes but your entire body's still asleep. A good way to get through - oh - days when things are happening to you that you'd rather not feel."

Leia had thought at the time, Like seeing your world destroyed, and the deaths of everyone you know? She'd dealt with that one by helping Luke and Han escape with the Death Star plans, by setting in motion the events that had blasted Grand Moff Tarkin and the Emperor's cherished superweapon into stellar dust.

She'd changed the subject, and a few weeks later, Greglik had been killed. She hadn't thought of him, or that conversation, in years.

 

Luke cut off the arm of a Wampa that wasn't using a blaster to fire at him. Luke also used an explosive charge to bring down the AT-AT, not the Lightsaber which only opened a hatch. He did not use the Lightsaber to deflect the blaster bolts back at the AT-AT, thereby bringing it down. Nor did he do what Ezra and Kanan did, when faced with one. Here, Luke has barely any Jedi training. He'd be slaughtered if he tried to deflect blaster bolts. That's why he doesn't do it again until he's been trained to do so, instinctively. Such as when he takes on Jabba's men. Only one person was qualified to take on Stormtroopers like that and he wasn't there.

 

I think Leia responded to trauma in a healthy way. She had lost her dad and her world. But she decided she would focus her emotion into escaping the Death Star. In many respects, Leia was ahead of her time (real world-wise). I believe Leia is best written in ANH and ROTJ. In TESB, she doesn't get enough to do, I think. Some people object to her falling in love with Han, but I don't care about that. I believe that Leia and Han grew as characters. Leia remained brave, but she was able to be open about her fears. She turned her vulnerability into strength, because (news flash) vulnerability is a strength. In spite of Han's big ego, he decided to allow himself to care about his friends. He came to genuinely love Leia by ROTJ. Remember that Han used to be a man of despair. He only cared about himself and Chewie. After he saved Chewie from slavery, he vowed to never care about anyone but himself. He used and used and used. But in ANH, he makes the choice to give a damn about his friends and the greater cause. It wasn't easy for him, and that's what makes him interesting.

What makes Leia interesting is that she chooses to open up to her brother and allies. She probably as very guarded before. Bail Organa taught her to conceal her emotions in order to protect her from Palpatine and Vader. Leia is a lot more powerful than most people know. I'm not talking about her Jedi abilities in the EU. I mean just look at the situation in movie context. Neither Vader nor Palpatine can sense that Leia is Vader's daughter for a long, long time. That's pretty amazing if ya think about it. Leia was an inspiration to the Rebellion, but her Force powers mainly helped her to protect herself. What we all loved about Leia, though, was how she was good at helping the heroes to get her out of the Death Star. Plus, ya know, it's kinda amazing to see a woman shoot that many stormtroopers that fast. Love it.

 

I think it's part of the comedic tone the kinda adventurous laugh a bit or be critical in a dangerous time to bring life to it all.

IMO the humor and deadpan and suddenness of a lot of the OT is what makes it special most of all now that is to say I think it has aged the best...

The themes and good/evil balance are there but I think increasingly rickety in the present for a variety of reasons, but the humor essentially and the kind of
adventurous off kilter spirit/balance is still great.

I also agree with quoting from above here.

"I think Leia responded to trauma in a healthy way. She had lost her dad and her world. But she decided she would focus her emotion into escaping the Death Star. In many respects, Leia was ahead of her time (real world-wise). I believe Leia is best written in ANH and ROTJ. In TESB, she doesn't get enough to do, I think. Some people object to her falling in love with Han, but I don't care about that.

I believe that Leia and Han grew as characters. Leia remained brave, but she was able to be open about her fears. She turned her vulnerability into strength, because (news flash) vulnerability is a strength. In spite of Han's big ego, he decided to allow himself to care about his friends. He came to genuinely love Leia by ROTJ. Remember that Han used to be a man of despair. He only cared about himself and Chewie. After he saved Chewie from slavery, he vowed to never care about anyone but himself. He used and used and used. But in ANH, he makes the choice to give a damn about his friends and the greater cause. It wasn't easy for him, and that's what makes him interesting.

What makes Leia interesting is that she chooses to open up to her brother and allies. She probably as very guarded before. Bail Organa taught her to conceal her emotions in order to protect her from Palpatine and Vader. Leia is a lot more powerful than most people know. I'm not talking about her Jedi abilities in the EU. I mean just look at the situation in movie context. Neither Vader nor Palpatine can sense that Leia is Vader's daughter for a long, long time. That's pretty amazing if ya think about it. Leia was an inspiration to the Rebellion, but her Force powers mainly helped her to protect herself. What we all loved about Leia, though, was how she was good at helping the heroes to get her out of the Death Star. Plus, ya know, it's kinda amazing to see a woman shoot that many stormtroopers that fast. Love it."

 

We're in a thread, started specifically to critique Leia's behaviour upon being rescued from her Death Star cell, started by an SWF417.

If there was a thread started by someone, criticizing Han's reaction with his Tatooine cell, then Sith Lord 2015 might be in there doing what you are trying to call him out for. But he did not start this thread.

 

That's right. This thread is about Leia's rescue only, not about Luke rescuing Han from Jabba. Besides, Han wasn't really serious. Luke already was his old friend, and Han wasn't really putting him down, he was just being sarcastic. He already knew Luke's abilities since he destroyed the DS and an AT-AT on Hoth. He was just making a joking remark about an old friend.

 

While "Same as always" "That bad, huh?" and possibly "You're gonna die here, you know. Convenient" might have been sarcastic, what Han said about Luke in his cell when Chewie explained what Luke was up to, sounded pretty serious:

"Luke?! Luke can't even take care of himself, much less rescue anybody."
"A Jedi Knight?! I'm out of it for a little while and everybody gets delusions of grandeur"