Lets just for arguments sake......

i see an overwhelming feeling of nationalism in the USA. in fact, i was just having a discussion aboutthis today in my journalism class. i think this nationalism has already gotten to the point where many citizens would feel perfectly comfortable with giving up certain liberties if the government told them it was for their "safety".

i'll just give my two cents real quick about certain flaws i see in our society.

being irish, i grew up my whole life honestly believing that the irish simply didn't have a culture. my mexican friends took dance classes, my italian friends had their traditional dinners, my french friend's grandmother spoke only french. even as i went into middle school, i continued to believe that the only historical accomplishments of my culture were shamrocks and st. patrick's day--whose real meaning i had yet to discover anyways!

a couple years ago, i began to read books about the history of my people, and their history in america. through this study, i began to learn alot about why things are the way they are in our modern society.

being a country that was originally founded by the british, many british ideals and cultural attitudes still prevail today. i soon found out that the irish had a culture, in fact, a very rich one. but many irish know nothing about it. why?
largely because of racist ideals and a feelig of british or "american" superiority over these new immigrants who, by the millions, populated the slums of new york and took the lowest jobs imaginable--thus, of course, being inferior.

this attitude still prevails today. the attitude of american superiority--although, america IS a nation of immigrants, after all. i think this "american superiority" ideal has translated itself into many aspects of our lives, cultural values, and even every day thought procceses.

long story short, i believe that racism is a huge part of our american culture, and this idea--the idea that "white is right" and everyone else is different, not that whites are just as much in the mix as everyone else. but also this same basic principle can be interpreted as "american is right", and every country must follow our standards.

even today in french class, my teacher was explaining to us why the french don't like people on their lawns, and why they have hedges and fences around their property. a neighbor leaned over and said, "the french are really snobby." --this attitude is totally communicated by *so* many different people. people who know nothing about the french (or other national) culture, way of life, history or people. walking into a restauraunt in france (or some other country) and screaming in english *will get you a bad reaction, and just as much as you were never taught to learn another language, many of them were never taught that, either.

but, we're american, dammit--they need to speak english. they need to be civilized. the need to conform to our conservative christian values. they need to have the same technology, the same economy, the same culture.

but approach an american about adopting the french (or any other nationality) way of life, or incorporating new traditions into daily life, and the whole country has a fit.

i'm tired of american superiority, and so is the res of the world. it's hard to please everyone i the global community, but going around saying how the french suck and canada is stupid and the illegals from mexico are stupid doesn't exactly win us any points, either.

this has been a really long post.

 

Devilanse:

What....am I supposed to feel insulted by that? Oh, wait...I forgot....people who don't agree with you are "stupid", and "evil". I must say...you have a very overinflated view of yourself.

I neither said nor implied that people who disagree with me are stupid or evil. What I wrote was that I believe many (perhaps not most, and certainly not all) who absolutely loathe the United States are stupid or evil.

Since you can't tell those two things apart, I marvel at your ability to judge others' views of themselves.

And I don't care whether you feel insulted or not: no kidding, I was quite surprised that your posted age is 32. I genuinely didn't think people your age were capable of a position that is so childish.


Karde:

I'd take it as compliment. Like most American conservatives Bubba has forgotten the deep mistrust of government power that was once such a widespread and noble conservative belief.

No, I still mistrust all governments, which is why I (and most other American conservatives) support a limited government that is tempered by both federalism and a strict interpretation of the Constitution.

It's just that I don't think that the U.S. government is uniquely worthy of all the bile and venom spewed by people here and elsewhere.

You shouldn't confuse healthy skepticism with irrational hatred. I have the former, too many here have the latter.

 

I must say the ignorance in your post seems to extend beyond your lack of knowledge of your Irish roots.

Yes a grand majority of the Colonies were British, but there is a reason New York was originally named New Amsterdam and certainly no Brit named it Louisiana.

Get over your indignation. There is no problem with being an Irish American, millions of people manage it without blaming their ignorance on british imperialism instead of their parents.

What? You want a little Ireland in new york where you can speak gaellic and not need a word of English?

There is a process called acculturation, it happens. Are you goign to claim America's culture didn't adapt anything from the Irish immigrants? And yet in return you feel it absurd that the Irish imigrants adapted into American culture?

Absurd.

And today, every day, the US is adapting to the Latino influx from South and Central America. And today, every day, the US is adapting to East Asian culture.

And in return those who move here adapt to the US as well. It happens. If you want to wring your hands over the dilution of your heritage join your idological brethren in the KK who complain about the dilution of white hetiage.

 

The US is imposing ideas of how a government should be run and how a society should work every bit as much as the British did. The British didn?t see what they were doing as Empire building or taking away freedom. They saw it as bringing civilization, free trade, and Christianity, all goals of utmost nobility. Your justification is only slightly different than their justification. It?s the exact same motivation, just dressed up in very slightly different language.

I?m not entirely for or against the actions of either the modern US or Victorian Britain. But you have to be willfully blind not to at least recognize a number of similarities between the two nations. The largest difference to me seems to be in mindset: that the Victorians set out in optimism, believing that they had a duty and a privilege to help the world, while America seems to be approaching the burden out of fear.


America gives back the territory that it takes (except for Puerto Rico and Hawaii and the natives lands, but they don?t really count anyhow). So did the British (except for Australia and Canada, which it gave to immigrants rather than natives). And up until the late 40s, they were willing to spend the time to make sure the other nation was ready to govern itself. Take a look at Singapore, which remained under British control until they were confident about its future. Almost every significant country (population 1,000,000 or higher) that was colonized and which isn?t now a dictatorship was British.

So, in that respect, the difference is not one of intent. It?s a question of methodology. Which is better for a nation: for a superpower to swoop in, put a quick patch on things, and then hand control back immediately, or for the superpower to stick around for years or decades to ensure that the other nation is ready for independence? Judging by past American success in Japan and Germany, I?d bet on the latter.

 

Apologies, Raven, for my denseness.

Farrady, I think I get your point, but you seem to completely ignore the fact that our cutlure DID discriminate and resent foreigners when they came, hence Irish, Polish, etc. were forced to drop their surnames and pretend they didn't have foreign roots. Are you denying this occurred?

 

WHY DOSE THE WORLD HATE THE USA SO?

Coming back to original poster's intentions: When, where and how did one of you experience this sentiment? Was it during one of your travels through Europe, South America or East Asia? Was it covered by the news media? What is giving you the impression that some nations (besides the Axis of Evil) are enjoying a "blood feud" with you?

LL

 

farraday, i think you misunderstood the tone of my post. i was just making an observation and sharing some thoughts on some different things. i am not angry at all; i know that part of the reason why the irish shed their culture is because they *wanted* to fit in. it is a natural desire when one comes to a new place.

however, that sort of "nativist" attitude still exists today. that's all i was saying. i was simply drawing an example that happens to mean alot to me, and applying some observations i have made that still exist today.

i didn't think it bothered you so much that i am sad that my culture is diluted. whatever.

 

Farrady, I think I get your point, but you seem to completely ignore the fact that our cutlure DID discriminate and resent foreigners when they came, hence Irish, Polish, etc. were forced to drop their surnames and pretend they didn't have foreign roots. Are you denying this occurred?

Which makes it unique? Hardly.

The veyr same time the US was passing acts bent on excluding the Chinese, canada was forcing them to pay money to enter. In 1903 the Price per head had been raised to $500. Eventually they almost completely excluded immigration with the Chinese Exclusion Act.

Yes the US was racist, but was any different from every other country in the world?

Since the Irish seem to be our main point right now let me point out that while there was a backlash in the 1800's when millions of dirt poor Irish catholics settled in the US, by 1870 almost half of NYC's population was Irish and German immigrants. Tammaney Hall and Boss Tweed controlled NYC through massive support of the Irish Americans. Hell the Political Boss of Albany was Daniel P. O'Connell


And, of course, there is a reason Notre dame is in Indiana. The less stratified regions of the Midwest and West provided enormous cultural mobility for the Irish.

There is a reason the Boston NBA team is the Celtics, and it isn't because your ignorance of your ancestry means there's no Irish culture in America.

 

For the record, I'm glad the term "conservative" means something different here in the UK as it does stateside.

The idea that the rest of the world hates (or mistrusts) the US because we are all jealous is laughable.

The very argument assumes that decent thinking non-Americans with genuine concern for our international community don't have valid and "GOOD" reason for being concerned about the actions of a nation that more often than not doesn't give a damn about the rest of the world!

It is arrogance of the highest order to assume that anyone who disagrees with you is jealous of you!

AnakinsGirl, Don't blame the British or American society for your lack of understanding of your culture. Blame you parents (or guardians). I have many friends with Irish ancestry and I can assure you they are fully in tune with their history and culture even though they speak English and like milk with their tea.

The very nature of Britishness is recieving and including other cultures into its own. Just look at the language we gave to the world - full of borrowed words from other cultures!

 

In my travels both before the Iraq War/9-11 and after, as well as interactions with you foreigners...I've had no problems whatsoever. Sure I got into a friendly argument with some British Folk, but nothing real major. IMO its not that people 'hate' Americans, rather that they have disagreements with American leadership.

And a specific nod to you Canadians, you guys and gals were quite hospitable.

I haven't been to Austrailia yet, but I hope to go...both to pick up a cool Aussie hat, as well as to try sledging.

 

Yes, Bubba, bury your head in the sand, and instruct J-Rod how to do it whilst you're at it.

Certainly, no criticism of America could be wrong! For America is the Great Liberator, and not a person on earth has suffered for American Needs! American Foreign Policy is Benevolent, seeking to Liberate Oppressed people and to combat Evil wherever it's found. It has never done wrong by anyone, and to suggest that it may form the basis for much anti-Americanism is Wrong!

Americans are often called arrogant, but this is false; being the richest and most wasteful country, with the largest military and force projection on Earth is clearly a humbling exercise! Not to mention calling a national event a "World Series".

It is also said that Americans are culturally ignorant and poorly travelled! What a lie, suggesting Americans are brought up from childhood to believe that everything that matters in the world exists within the 50 states!

It is said Americans lack empathy, that they cannot think in the perspective of another. False, clearly false; Americans demonstrate a wide understanding of world opinion, from New York to LA!


See, I don't hate America Bubba, but that blow-smoke-up-your-own-ass attitude of yours, demonstrated in your reply, is precisely why people don't like Americans. And if I don't hate America, and could be that sarcastic, imagine how people who've suffered so Americans can have cheap oil and cheap clothes and hegemonic influence, feel.

If you can.

E_S


Ender, if you aren't one of the most anti-American people I've ever encountered then I am having a love affair with France.

 

Ender, if you aren't one of the most anti-American people I've ever encountered then I am having a love affair with France.



Priceless, simply priceless. I don't need to say anything more, your comments show exactly why threads like this exist.

 

Ender, if you aren't one of the most anti-American people I've ever encountered then I am having a love affair with France.

You have an unhealthy fixation with France. Seek help. Tell 'em Dr. FIDo recommends ya.

 

You have an unhealthy fixation with France. Seek help. Tell 'em Dr. FIDo recommends ya.

Funny you should say that. A girl from France just got hired on at my company and she works in the cubicle next to mine. When I found out where she was from I about fell out of my chair and died from a stroke. Now just how the heck am I supposed to freely express my views about France while at work without offending my new neighbor? ANSWER ME THAT!!!!!

J/K

 

ANSWER ME THAT!!!!!

You got your 1st amendment rights! I say use 'em!

(Just make sure there are no witnesses )

 

Funny you should say that. A girl from France just got hired on at my company and she works in the cubicle next to mine. When I found out where she was from I about fell out of my chair and died from a stroke. Now just how the heck am I supposed to freely express my views about France while at work without offending my new neighbor? ANSWER ME THAT!!!!

Easily, you shut your mouth and type it. That or use duct tape on your mouth...on second thought, better use the tape.

 

Dr. FIDo, your concern for my freedom of speech and personal welfare is touching. No, it really is.

 

Oh you're welcome. I pride myself on being heart-warming.

 

...and I pride myself on being an expert on French cuisine. DOH!, I did it again!

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>Americans are hard to understand. For instance, the USA is the world's largest producer of pornography, yet when a boob falls out "accidently" on TV, it's the end of the world as we know it. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

The issue was CONTEXT. I dont think reasonable Americans would have had a problem with Janet Jackson posing nude for PLAYBOY or PENTHOUSE. Heck, I would have respected her a lot more if she had done hardcore pornography. Atleast she would have been doing it in the correct venue. She would have been performing something that is clearly meant for CONSENTING ADULTS. That is a lot more mature and a lot less childish than flashing your breast in the middle of a family oriented event in order to stir up conterversy and sell albums. "OOOOO look Im so bad!!!!" Give me a break. Oh, and please, no one give me that crap about the "hypocracy" of football being a violent game that the children are watching. Football is not violent. Maybe extremely rough and aggressive but not violent. There are very strict rules to minimize the chances of bad injuries. For instance, if a defensive player hits the quarterback in the head when he is stepping back to throw a pass, that defensive player is going to get slapped with a 15 yard penalty no matter what the circumstances of the game are.

America may be the biggest exporter of porn but if I am not mistaken they are the biggest exporter of movies in general. And I havent checked, but I wouldnt be surprised if Europe isnt exactly a small exporter of porn either. Besides, I would say atleast 33 % of American porn stars are imports from other countries. And that could be a very conservative figure.

What Janet Jackson did was the equivalent of a clerk at the concession stand giving my kid beer when he was supposed to give him Coke. If I was livid at that would that make me a hypocrite if my country was the largest exporter of beer?

Look, I will admit that overall people overreacted and the story went on far longer than it should have. But parents had a right to be angry and offended. And it wasnt just the boob. It was the combination of that and the dancing before it. The boob was just the capper that gave people the courage to speak out without the fear of being labeled prudes. Ofcourse, some people still labeled them prudes, but those who did looked a little foolish in my opinion.

 

I neither said nor implied that people who disagree with me are stupid or evil. What I wrote was that I believe many (perhaps not most, and certainly not all) who absolutely loathe the United States are stupid or evil.

You never said it...but you are doing a good job of implying it.

Since you can't tell those two things apart, I marvel at your ability to judge others' views of themselves.

Says the guy who fancies himself a "genius".

And I don't care whether you feel insulted or not: no kidding, I was quite surprised that your posted age is 32. I genuinely didn't think people your age were capable of a position that is so childish.

Whats so childish about my position...other than the fact that it differs from yours. Really...you're gonna have to do better than that.

 

Why does the world hate America?

Ego! American's say God Bless America. So does this mean god should not bless the rest of the world.
Wouldn't a better statement be God Bless The World.

America is very religious and many christians believe that God will punish all the heathens, ie non-christians. This is a very egotistical remark to say that God will punish Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, Buddists. People of many non christian countries would find these statements offensive and build up some anger towards the hardcore christian right.

 

Ender, if you aren't one of the most anti-American people I've ever encountered then I am having a love affair with France.

Ce sont des conneries, va te faire voir! Tu me fais suer, non?

Vezner, le lignage desloial et felon!

Faire la foire, et libérez le chien de guerre!



E_S

 

And your point is what, E_S? That you are able to speak a language (French) that I can not speak (of course, why would I want to? )? Oh, that one hurts me real bad. I feel like I'm going to shrink away in shame. JOO HAVE PWNED ME!!!!

*bows down before E_S's infinite knowledge of the universe*

...

Yeah, whatever.

 

wow this thread gets increasingly dukber by the day. imagine, an american that actually has the capability of speaking *another* language?!

it's shocking, i know...


and you wonder why people hate us.