Let's talk about "I sense Lord Vader is in danger"

We never "see" Luke's vision of Cloud City, as pointed out already, and Luke's test in the cave is not a vision in the same sense as his vision of Cloud City is, as it was specifically a test of Luke's trust in the Force/ways of the Jedi. (A test in which Luke failed miserably)

Regardless, since its not really a vision in the same sense, I wasn't counting it. Nowhere in the OT do we the audience see "visions" in the way they are presented in the PT.

 

Oh, definitely.

 

--When my real Apprentisss Darth Rossa sees that, yousa willbein big doodooo!

***

Answer the question Davi!
Don't hop skip and jump around the issue. Did it appear to you the FIRST time you saw it that Sidious was having a VISION right there. When u saw it in the theater I'd bet my retirement that you did not sit there go wow I wonder what the vision was like. The Emperor said he sensed it, why is that so difficult? Just being rowdy as usual.

 

I figured he had some sort of Force assisted premonition going on, yeah...If you want to define that as a vision of the future, it would fit. I didn't wonder what it looked like though. I didn't need to. I didn't need to see Luke's vision of Han and Leia on Cloud City either. The intent was there, so, I didn't stay up all night going "golly gee willickers, I wonder what that looked like?" To be fair, I will admit that I really didn't see the need for George Lucas to include actual footage of Anakin's visions, either. I don't think anything was really gained from a storytelling standpoint by seeing Padme going through birth in a vision, only to have the birth scene again at the end of the movie. Seemed kind of superfluous to me. The scene would have been just fine without the visual dream sequence, with Anakin just telling Padme he had a vision about her dying. We didn't really need to see it in order to accept that he had one. Some things can be believed without it needing to be shown explicitly on screen.

Case in point, what a lot of people consider to be the scariest movie of all time, JAWS, featured the actual shark for very limited amounts of time. Had Spielberg constantly shown the shark to us, we would have seen a broken down mechanical shark, and it would have spoiled the mood of the movie. By not seeing the shark on film for all but a few minutes, our brains fill in the blanks, and it becomes all the more terrorizing. Sometimes if you want to have a deeper psychological effect, you show less, not more of that which is supposed to be creeping the audience out. Not trying to equate Palpatine's visions with a great white shark, but merely providing an example of a situation where less is more. I didn't feel cheated at ROTS for not showing me Palpatine's vision, I was more annoyed that we had to see Anakin's. Again, just didn't feel actually seeing the visions was necessary from a storytelling perspective. The contents of the visions are implied.

So anyway, when ROTS came out, and we get Palpatine saying that he senses Vader is in trouble, I had no trouble accepting that as a Sith Lord, perhaps the greatest ever (perhaps not) he was capable of having visions of the future. If Luke can have visions of the future only a few weeks into his training, certainly a fully trained Sith Lord would be capable, and I didn't need to see the vision to accept it.

 

No, SSS. I AM Your apprentice.

 

Okay, let's stay on topic.

 

Just cause you're not a force user.

 

Watch it.

 

alright. Back on topic. I think the scene works as it is. If I was going to go back and fix things about the PT, this would rate Very Low to Don't Bother on my priority list.

 

I actually equate Sidious sensing Vader was in danger with Yoda feeling Anakin's pain from AOTC. As far as we can tell Yoda did not actually see what happened with Anakin as in a vision. He felt Anakin's pain and he felt death surrounding whatever happened. I do not think in either of these cases they received a vision in which they actually see in part or whole what is to happen or is happening.

Another case is that from ANH where Obi-Wan feels the pain of those wiped out on Alderaan. He said I fear something terrible has happened and I think he said also, I felt millions of voices crying out and then suddenly quieted. He did not see what happened like one would in a vision.

I think what Sidious had with Anakin in sensing he was in danger was not a vision, but similiar to when Force-users(good and dark side)feel a disturbance in the Force. They do not always have a vision, but rather like impulses from the Force that indicate something is to happen or has happened. Theses impulses could be like a small voice. I seem to remember Qui-Gon telling Anakin in TPM, that if you quiet yourself you can hear the midichlorians or the Force, whichever he said.

I think by some of the dialogue here by Sidious and other examples in the Star Wars films, this was not a vision he had and he actually saw the danger from Obi-Wan. I think if he had a vision, he might have said, "I see Lord Vader in danger!"

Darth Sin!

 

We see it all over the saga. "I'm sure Luke wasn't on it." "No, he wasn't."

 

for Darth Sin.
You Sir!! Have been on fire lately.

 

Much like Mustufar.

 

Ok, so if Palpatine felt Anakin's pain as they were occurring, someone please explain to me how Anakin could survive long enough for Palpatine to hyperspace all the way from Coruscant to Mustafar? If it occurred simultaneously to the actual infliction of the injuries, then Yoda must have taken his sweet old time getting to Palpatine's office under the Senate, as he only had to travel from the Jedi Temple, while Obi-Wan had to travel all the way from Coruscant to Mustafar.

Sorry guys, but that interpretation just doesn't make sense. It makes far more logical sense if the Yoda/Sidious duel, and his sense of Anakin's danger occur well before the injuries are actually inflicted, so that he could leave in his shuttle for Mustafar, while Padme/Obi-Wan are still on their way. That explains how Anakin could possibly survive the length of time between Obi-Wan's leaving him, and Sidious's arrival. Otherwise, you are left wondering if Anakin is strong enough to sustain himself, using the Force to keep him alive for days waiting for Palpatine, while completely untrained in Sith methods, wouldn't immediately kill Sidious upon finding out Padme ended up dying anyway? If Anakin is strong enough to keep himself alive for days waiting for Sidious to arrive, despite the severe injuries he received, even with only 80% of his potential left after being put inside the suit, he would have been strong enough to defeat Sidious EASILY. Of course, if he was that strong in the Force to begin with, he should have been able to easily defeat Kenobi too... Its far easier to explain logically if you shorten the length of time between Obi-Wan leaving Mustafar and Sidious arriving. But the only way to shorten that length of time is for Sidious to have sensed Anakin's danger in advance, so that when they occur, he is already en route, in fact, almost there, ie, Sidious had a vision of the future.

 

He didn't sense Anakin in pain, because the duel wasn't over. What Sidious felt was the emotional rage from Vader, because Obi-wan and Padme had enraged him and his former Master was continuing to do so. Palpatine didn't have a vision, he felt rage just as Yoda felt emotional pain from the boy three years earlier. He also sensed a different emotion as well, which may have been unease at fighting over lava. It may also be that Vader is reaching out to Sidious, just as Leia can feel Luke in the OT.

BTW, hyperspace travel doesn't take days like the eu tells you. It's a matter of hours.

 

It depends how far it is, Sinister. Come on. You should know that.

 

Source?

 

One parcec equals 19 Trillion miles.
Flying around the galaxy takes more than a few minutes.
Even in hyperspace.

 

Arguing over the practical details of a completely fictional technology? Priceless...

 

The films. Hyperspace travel is very short in the films, so long as one doesn't make a number of stops and as it serves the purpose of the story. In ANH, the Falcon goes into light speed. A few minutes later, Han says that they've lost the Imperials and gave an ETA. A few moments later, they're at Alderaan. In TESB, it's said that once the Falcon goes into light speed, it'll be clear across the galaxy before the Empire can react. In ROTJ, Leia says that they better hurry up before the fleet gets there. A few minutes later, we see the fleet make the jump. A few more minutes after that, the fleet arrives. Basically comes across as a half hour. In TPM, it seems longer because the ship isn't going as fast as the Falcon. In AOTC, Obi-wan makes good time. Same with Jango. The ship that Anakin, Padme and Artoo use is a registered transport and probably has many stops. In ROTS, Palpatine is able to get to Mustafar in what would probably be about a half hour to an hour after Palpatine gave the order to prepare his ship. The only reason it is days in the eu, is because the authors are all sci-fi afficandos and thus write as such. Lucas just moves the plot along without getting caught up in the details.

 

Isn't that the point of these boards?

 

Sinister, you know full well that films tend to skip uneventful parts. Its only a few minutes later, in screen time, not actual time. Otherwise, Luke had about 5 minutes of Jedi training, in total. We know he had more, but thats not on screen, as much of the journeys through hyperspace are skipped. Since they are boring and uneventful, Lucas doesn't feel the need to show it to us. Actiony SciFi movies tend to skip the boring stuff, like traveling through hyperspace.

 

Nice discussion -- pardon my interjection.

We know that parlayed screen scenes are not always time synchronized. For instance, Padme's birthing and death scene was interspliced with the birth of Vader. We can surmise that chronologically this sequence was not simultaneous for reasons akin to the ones Darth_Davi and Sx3 state above. But the force is indeed timeless, and so Vaderkin senses his beloved Padme at some point after his defeat, knowing 'at that point' which he sensed her, she lived. But when Padme died, Vader was not yet literally born, only 'under construction.' When Vader fully awakens, learning of Padme's death, his Sith fate was sealed to the delight of Lord Sidious.

So on to the Yoda-Sidious duel and the Vaderkin/Kenobi duel. Just as Sidious' travel from Coruscant to Mustafar in time to 'save' Vaderkin is problematic, so too is the Padme/Kenobi trip to Mustafar 'disconnected' in time considering Yoda's short 'stroll' over to the Emperor's office to "do what must be done." Yet Lucas splices the two duels together for dramatic effect as if Yoda is in Sidious' office as Kenobi and Vaderkin duel.

In reality, events likely proceeded as follows: Yoda and Kenobi split. Kenobi goes to Padme and later stows away on her ship. As Kenobi does so, Yoda waddles over to teh Emperor's crib. Padme and Kenobi speed on their way to Mustafar as Yoda and Sidious engage in mortal combat. Their duel ends while the Naboo cruiser is still in hyperspace, hurling toward the Outer Rim Mustafar moon. After Sidious dispatches the diminutive green one, he pauses to listen to the force, and senses something is not right -- Anakin is in danger -- perhaps this means only that Kenobi is enroute to Mustafar (not good). So Sidious orders his ship readied and departs. As Sidious speeds toware the lava world, the duel is run and Vaderkin defeated. Shortly thereafter Sidious arrives, just in time to save his prized apprentice.

My take? Sensing the future by Sidious -- AKA, force vision. Flame on!

 

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Yes, except Lucas isn't bound by real life science or even the usual science fiction techno babble. Thus hyperspace journeys are faster than the eu states. Days are really hours. It's not the same as Luke's training or what not.

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