Lightsaber forms of New Republic/NJO era characters

That's it, Gfalcon!

Best,
Abel

 

I'm finally starting to get into Labyrinth of Evil, and I came across two fancy names that I take as being names of Lightsaber Forms: Ataro and Lus-ma. Now, here are my questions:

1. Is Ataro just another name for Ataru? I went to the CUSWE, and the entries for Ataro and Ataru are similar

2. Is Lus-ma the name of the only remaining unnamed ? The "reverse-blade" style used by Adi Gallia, Nikkos Tyris, and Mara Jade to some extent?

 

I think that Ganner, Luke, and possibly Jacen unlocked a new secret of lightsaber fighting when they were ceaselessly and effortlessly flaying Vong left and right on Yuuzhan'tar. That in itself could be considered a new form. I sure bet Mace Windu, Sora Bulq, or Echuu Shen-Jon couldn't have done that stuff.

None shall pass. And quite frankly, none did.

 

Not sure if its bad form to keep posting on a thread thats been resurrected from the dead. However, I just wanted to add my own insight to some of this.

Luke - He used V during the films, but I could see him switching to III as time went on and he settled down some, using IV in the occasional Yoda-like explosions of action (Jacen's rescue, Shimmra's throne room). In this way, he pays homage to both of his masters.

Jacen - Defintly III at the start of the NJO, but switching to IV after Traitor. IV is supposed to be about throwing oneself into the Force, letting it spin and speed the user to incredible feats. Seems rather in line with his new understanding of the Force.

I also think that the old styles survived longer than many may think. Luke has at least one holocron, and has spent years researching the OJO. While I'm sure that most of the Jedi combine the best aspects of the old forms with newer, more practical, less polished techniques,the fundamentals of the different forms must survive

 

Luke wasn't flashy in Shimrra's Citadel. He was just amazingly strong and swift. No unnecessary flips and aerobatics. That was either XTREME Vaapad or something entirely new.

 

IMO Luke would know all the forms except Vaapad because a) he lacks the mindset necessary to learn/master Form VII & b) he does not need it to protect himself from the Dark Side.

 

Here's an idea: use an energy shield along with your lightsaber. You'd quite literally rip any non-shield-equipped opponent to shreds within seconds.

 

For the record, Luke doesnt know Vaapad. Only 3 people knew it properly with maybe 1 or 2 others knowing a few moves from it. And they all died or went insane. Its possibly Luke can use Form VII, but not Vaapad.

 

I don't think that you could learn Sabre Forms from a holocron, it would be like trying to learn Karate from a book. If Luke's academy has trained the majority of the NJO then they would have his skills to learn from, which would have been Form III from Obi-Wan, maybe Form IV from Yoda and Form V from fighting Vader. It takes years to properly learn LS forms in a 'dojo' from a master, Luke has had 1-2 days with Obi-Wan, several weeks with Yoda and fought Vader 3 times (ESB, ROTJ and Splinter).

Therefore Luke's ability with traditional forms = not good.

Juding from how well NJO can swat razor bugs from the air, and that most training is centered on remotes, the NJO version of Form III would seem to be the starting step for most Jedi, followed by Form IV and V depending upon ability. I don't think any of the other forms would have made it through!

This is not to say that the NJO would be limited to 3 forms, as I'm sure that Kyle Katarn as the weapons master would have created his own as well, and whatever Mara learned as the Emperor's hand snuck through as well, with the Shadow Academy presuably teaching something similar.

Of the dropped forms then..

Form I- Used against polearms/ vibroblades, not that commonly used by enemies in NJO. (Amphistaffs perform like lightsabers)

Form II- I think Dooku was supposed to be considered odd for choosing this style as it was out of use by AOTC and for many years before, however I like the idea of Tenel Ka developing a new, but similar style.

Form VI- Wasn't that good on Geonosis and dropped almost immediately thereafter. 'Jedi' like Leia who don't swing a lightsaber that often would actually not meet the base criteria for this style, which was a knowledge of Forms III, IV and V. I would say that the unskilled jedi would simply have a very basic understanding of Form III.

Form VII- As above this was very rare and all who knew it died, or went insane and died! (Maybe good for Jacen then)

As well as this I don't think that you can consider Luke to be a great teacher of lightsaber combat. He gave 12 year olds lightsabers with little training, and didn't think of turning the power down like Yoda did with the Bear Clan... or using sticks first... (interestingly the Samurai failed to develop non-lethal training weapons for 100s of years, and did so only after an imperial decree) but it seems such an obvious first step.


I have put way too much thought and effort into this, my brain and fingers hurt.

 

Thjats nto what I aid. Vaapad - which is the advanced stage of Form Vii - doesnt exist anymore because all the users of it are dead. Form VII itself still exists.

 

Thanks for that correction, here is mine...

Form VII- As above this was very rare as it was close to the Darkside. There were only 1-2 masters including Mace. Led to Vaapad, and all who knew that died, or went insane and died! Anyway, point is it would not have got through to NJO era.

(Also it looks similar to how Palps fought, at least against the first three Jeid Masters he killed.)

Also forgot...

Form Zero- Not drawing the lightsaber, cool idea but I can't think of any times that it has been used effectively in the EU at all.

 

Hi, just came across my jan feb 2003 copy of the UK star wars mag and it has some interesting notes on lightsabre combat:

"By the time of the Battle of Endor, Luke Skywalker has studdied some lightsaber technique from Obi-wan's journal and greatly advnaced his abilities without a master, such advanement would be nearly impossible for most, but Skywalker's unparaleled aptitude makes him a match for Darth Vader in their fateful duel on board the second death star. Both are limited, vader by his cybernetic body parts and skywalker by his relative lack of experience."

This probably means that Luke knew some of forms 3 and four at first anyway.

The article also meantions some stuff bout obi-wan and vader about how crap they were, vader due to pain and obiwan due to exile. Then it goes on to say that vader cured his pain between a ANH and ESB, explaining his perfomance over luke in ESB.

"Vader has largely freed himself of pain through the force in the years since the battle of Yavin and by practice with living opponents both willing and unwilling, he has advanced his lightsaber technique.

hope this is useful!

 

Another tidbit from that article:

Darth Maul is stated to have used Form VII. AS Sidious trained Maul, and also trained Luke in DE, then there's a high probability that Luke does know Form VII. Whether or not he's figured out Vaapad is another question entirely.

 

I've been wondering if maybe Shien might not be the blaster-bolt-deflecting aspect of Form V, and Djem So an aspect more focused on melee.

 

Form VII for Darth Maul?
I think there should be another name for the combat with a double-bladed lightsaber. Is there any?

 

I'd agree that a dual bladed saber as well as two sabers should have their own forms

 

Nonsense, there's no need. While the particular application might be a little different, it's the same basic style being executed. And two people can execute the same style very differently anyway. It's still the same basic principles of motion and technique, just with the extended techniques required of having another blade to compensate for. And, as I recall, almost all users of either of those more esoteric forms nearly always used one of only two or three different styles - someone want to remind me of which? In any case, they're really just subsets with advanced techniques.

- Keralys

 

You can't handle a two-bladed saber like the standard lightsaber, it simply would be too easy and more Jedi would have chosen a double-bladed one.
I recall only two: Darth Maul and Exar Kun. There has to be another technique.

By the way, It would be great if someone of the NJO characters decides to develop a double-bladed lightsaber or at least fights with two sabers.

 

Not what I'm saying. The form remains the same. I already acknowledged that the technique was a more difficult, advanced technique that requires more skill. But form and technique are not the same thing. The form describes the types of motions; how the blade moves relative to you and your body and the basic forms of its motion. These remain largely unchanged from one blade to two, even to a double-bladed single weapon - and these advanced techniques are limited to being used only in certain forms, because the extra blades limit you to only using certain motions.

- Keralys

 

1. Luke: Form V Djem-So then Form VII (possibly his own derivative ala Vaapad).
2. Jacen: Form I Shii-Cho... maybe Form VI Niman. He was never a big duelist IIRC
3. Jaina: Form V Shien
4. Kyp: Form V Djem-So, Form VII Juyo
5. Mara: Form V Djem-So, Form II Makashi
6. Corran: Form III Soresu
7. Ganner: Form IV Ataro
8. Anakin Solo: Form IV Ataro
9. Kyle: Form V Shien, Form IV Ataro
10. Kam: Form V Djem-So, Form III Soresu
11. Tionne: Form VI Niman - She's pretty weak and not really a warrior
12. Tahiri: Form V Shien, Form IV Ataro
13. Leia: Form VI Niman but after TUQ heading towards Form V Shien if not Djem-So. She was punching, etc
14. Hamner: Form III Soresu
15. Wurth Skidder: Form IV Ataro, Form V Djem-So
16. Alema Rar: Form IV, Form V
17. Octa Ramis: Form III Soresu
18. Vergere: ? Don't recall her ever dueling
19. Streen: Form III Soresu
20. Kirana Ti: Form V Shien, Form IV Djem-So


I imagine everyone would learn Form I at the Academy. Then they would get the basics and choose an "elective" with the default being Form IV or Form V. Then they would learn their masters style.

 

I wouldn't consider Jacen Solo that bad in his dueling qualities. He always wons against his brother Anakin.

 

Not what I'm saying. The form remains the same. I already acknowledged that the technique was a more difficult, advanced technique that requires more skill. But form and technique are not the same thing. The form describes the types of motions; how the blade moves relative to you and your body and the basic forms of its motion. These remain largely unchanged from one blade to two, even to a double-bladed single weapon - and these advanced techniques are limited to being used only in certain forms, because the extra blades limit you to only using certain motions.

I have to disagree. I can't imagine the tight, precise, point-oriented attacks of Form II, for instance, could be replicated with a lightsaber blade sticking out the *back* side of the saber as well as the front. Nothing about the form - technique, stance, grip, anything - would translate over. As cool as it looks, a double-bladed saber is a really limiting weapon that doesn't allow for the variety of forms a lightsaber does.

 

No, that's still a part of my point. That's why I noted that they've almost always been constrained to use some of the other forms. Of course you can't use Form II or III effectively with dual-blades or a lightstaff. That's why they don't use those forms. They're forced to use the forms that suit the weapon - named I, IV, and VII, in general, for those weapons. But they still fit inside those forms. Also - it's well-established that this is the case; we KNOW that they do this from all the sources we have. And, from a purely observational standpoint, it actually does make sense. Many of the same basic principles apply to Form VII regardless of what blade type you're using - it just has to have certain modifications of certain motions within it, though it maintains the same basic set of movements and techniques, only compensating for the differences in blade type.

- Keralys

 

But isnt it also true that Exar Kun invented the Saber Staff... and was a Form II user..