CT Lightsaber skills

I saw a Youtube video of Ray Park using Kylo Ren's lightsaber yesterday and it started me thinking. Real world question. I've always been amazed at how stiff, how poor the swordsmanship of Sir Alec Guinness and David Prouse. Now, please don't flame me. I'm sure it has to do with GL not using a swordsmanship coach when training them. I should think that Sir Alec would have had experience with swords, though. Anyone have any insight on the training behind the scenes for Episode IV and other films?

 

The OT sword fights were choreographed by swordsman Bob Anderson. I've heard that Alec Guiness had some experience in fencing or something like that, but I don't think David Prowse had much experience at all. From what I can work out the training was relatively basic, but it seems to have been designed to be relatively simplest and realistic, and in the original was supposed to be two-handed, like using medieval longswords where such weapons were too heavy for one-handed combat.
It should be remembered that Alec Guinness was 63 and David Prowse 42, a bit past the optimal age for for fighting.
Anyway, the reason why the fight in he original is so scrappy is, aside from inexperience, likely to do with the method that was originally used to try get them to show on screen. The lightsabers had rods that were coated in reflective tape which were very fragile, and Prowse was supposed to have broken many blades. Hence the fighting is a little toned down to prevent that happening. They went for a stiffer design in TESB and ROTJ, allowing more forceful contact.
In the PT they used aluminium rods and entirely CG'd the blade over the rod, and hence had a much flashier style.
Personally I think the OT fighting style is actually more realistic than the PT one, more in TESB and ROTJ than the original, as the combatants actually aim at each other, with the blade contact being around the middle, unlike the tip-to-tip, well-away-from-the-body contact that predominates in TPM, and there's a lot less excess movement, which is important in real sword-fighting because it expends energy and reduces the ability to parry. And it's more emotive and passionate in ROTJ at least.

 

It's a bit tricky because if we go with the lightsabers as glowing broadswords idea then the acrobatics and highly stylised combat from the prequels wouldn't really be possible unless everyone was an exceptionally limber Wookie. But with the concept of them being more like laser rapiers then the whole slow swings and blade-to-blade style used in the OT would be possible but a really inefficient way to fight. Neither is objectively better than the other but they do contradict each other somewhat. I will say though that the duel on Mustaphar with Kenobi and Anakin is just as emotionally powerful as the Death Star II duel of Luke and Vader, in different ways perhaps but I for one don't buy the theory that the OT duels were somehow more 'meaningful' just because they were slower paced.

 

Their fight scene on the Death Star is not as fast and furious as the reality but it contains the efficiency and stances you would see in Kendo.

 

Exactly right. The ANH was choreographed to be the way it was.

 

It was Athsma vs. Arthritis.

 

Like many have said above, it's a combination of factors. The age of both actors, David Prowse fudging the truth about his experience with swords, the types of lightsaber props they were using, Lucas' original intent for the lightsabers to be heavy weapons that needed two hands to use effectively, and the kind of sword fighting style they were going for.

But then they brought in Hamill over Guinness, so a bit of youthfulness and probably a bit more enthusiasm for the overall experience. Prowse probably got better over time, as people are wont to do with practice and repetition, in addition to bringing in stunt doubles (did they do that for Prowse? I genuinely can't remember and I'm too lazy to look). The props improved. The lightsaber became usable with only one hand. And, of course, there's always a desire to one-up what came before.

(This is another reason I'm a strong advocate of release order viewing; it's another example each film building on the last)

 

I don't want it to sound like I want the flip-flying PT era swordfighting. To the contrary, I've said many times before that I don't like the Yoda-bee in Ep II. I'm thinking more of fencing and the activity that goes with that. The idea that (a) the "swords" were fragile and (b) they were meant to be double-handed like broadswords does make sense, though.

Gotta say, though, the elegance of Dooku and that curved hilt...

 

Wasn't it Anderson in the Vader suit for the Bespin and RotJ duels, though? I thought I heard that somewhere.

 

It could very well be, and in fact probably is. Like I said, I've forgotten everything pertaining to Vader stunt-doubles.

 

KaleeshEyes basically said everything I was about to say.

Also Bob Anderson knows his stuff.