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BTS Lucas Quotes and Interviews about the starwars saga.

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Keeper_of_Swords, May 22, 2004.

  1. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2005
    The will of the Force has been Lucas canon since 1999. This idea of the Whills would be an exploration of that concept.
    In no way does it have to negate free will, because the will of the individual can be as strong as that of the Force, if that’s how the author chooses to see it.
    The Whills and their plans for the universe would be GL’s answer to what destiny is and he has, for years, claimed that the idea of destiny in Star Wars is that we all have one but that we also have the ability to choose whether or not to follow it.
    So essentially, someone going against their destiny is a battle of wills - the individual vs the Whills - and the short-term victory always belongs to the individual, it seems.

    I believe interesting dilemmas could’ve arisen from exploring this idea. Someone could, for instance, have thought “Since the Whills control everything, I might as well just look after myself and leave them to it”, thereby beginning their descent into darkness.
     
  2. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2015
    You might as well say since 1977:

    BEN Remember, a Jedi can feel the Force
    flowing through him.

    LUKE You mean it controls your actions?

    BEN Partially. But it also obeys your
    commands.

    But the way I've interpreted Kenobi's statement (then and still now) is that the Force rather has chracteristics of the Holy Spirit, explained by Jesus in Mark 13:11: "be not anxious beforehand what ye shall speak: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye; for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Spirit."
    Simply put: If you don't know what to do next and open up, desperate for advice, then the Force will control your actions, but the decisive point (IMHO) is that you do excercise free will by opening up and letting the Force take over.

    Either George Lucas isn't clear enough about this in his aforementioned statements or we do have to look at his microbiotic Whills as a permanent guest whispering into our ears. This is even worse if we consider a graphic example from classic animated cartoons:

    [​IMG]
    So on the left side you have the Whills and on the right side it's all that comes from us and ourselves??? We are all inherently evil and mean and need the guidance of these macrobiotic Whills in the constant fight against our animalistic tendencies???

    And what happened to "midichlorians"? Assuming these are just indicator bacteria to measure an individual's Force perceptiveness I can happily live with that, maybe that's a good thing that comes out after this discussion after all. :D
     
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  3. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2005
    I don’t see how GL’s idea of the Whills means that we are inherently evil. That’s a fairly extreme interpretation, if you ask me.
    All it means is that there are divine powers at play; beings who operate from the depths of the Force itself to maintain balance in the universe - and that we, as their instruments, have the power to either oppose or help them because we, like all other things in the universe, have an inherent dark side as well as light. We all have the potential for both good and evil and which side we end up on is ultimately up to each and every one of us, since we also possess free will.

    What the Whills actually do, I think, is pull strings on a cosmic level and provide guidance for those who are willing to listen.
    The midi-chlorians, as GL explains it, are the conduits through which the Whills connect to us; messengers who, in the words of Qui-Gon, tell us the will of the Force - or, to be more precise, the will of the Whills.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2018
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  4. yodaman_reborn

    yodaman_reborn Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Feb 7, 2009
    I believe the idea is that we are all connected to a greater consciousness within the universe. Science and religion have always seemed on polar ends of the spectrum and often incompatible. But yet there is always the question of whether there is a science to religion. For example you can take an Eastern view of reincarnation where a spirit is reborn into another body. That can be juxtaposed to an idea of some alien using technology to transfer its conscious being from one body to another body. They sound completely different and yet at the core they’re the same.

    The idea that all beings are just a small part of a greater consciousness is nothing new. An example is Gaia principle where there is the concept of Mother Earth as a living being. One can see that as more a mythological ideology but some scientists have tried to see it from a literal scientific perspective. Even look no farther than Lucas’s friend James Cameron who created the world of Avatar where on Pandora there is that sense that nature is a greater being. In fact the trees have neurosynapses and Jake does have his spirit transferred to his Avatar body.

     
  5. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2005
    I believe you are right on the mark. That quote likely says most, if not all, of what we need to know about the Whills. They are the collective consciousness that we’re all linked to/offshoots of. Deep down, we all know what the Whills want because in a way, we ARE them and they are us - which means that on some level, we all want what they want.
    It’s just that when we as lifeforms develop the ability to think independently, we run the risk of focusing too much on ourselves and lose touch with our collective subconscious. That’s how we disrupt the balance.
    So, you might say that at our core, we’re all inherently GOOD people - but sometimes, we forget what it actually means to be good.
     
  6. yodaman_reborn

    yodaman_reborn Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Feb 7, 2009
    I think the way I envision it is that it is like being in a great ocean and having every water molecule be a conscious being. Living organisms are also mostly compromised of water and therefore they pervade both internally and externally within us. In that sense we are continually bathed within the Whills and they compromise the basic structure of our own flesh.

    Imagine a creature who swims deep in the ocean. It does not know a world where it is not constantly surrounded by water. This water seems invisible and yet it can feel the water with its movements and in some ways manipulate its flow. I imagine that’s how a Jedi feels “swimming” through the sea of Whills. I imagine there are creatures in the sea that swim through water not even realizing or understanding the water is there.

    And what if that ocean we are swimming in is in fact a body of water within a greater organism, perhaps within this organism’s blood vessels? Then we are just small organisms within a greater organism. Just as the midichlorians are a small organism within a greater organism. A person can build a large beautiful sand castle on the beach. As grandiose as it may be it is still just made of the same small individual grains of sand particles that lays on the rest of the beach.
     
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  7. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2005
    That’s a beautiful analogy! Picturing it as an ocean should make it easy to understand, I think.
    The Force partially controls our actions, but it also obeys our commands. Just like water!
     
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  8. yodaman_reborn

    yodaman_reborn Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Feb 7, 2009
    Thanks. I think it also helps understand how Jedi interact with the Force. Whereas non-Jedi can’t sense the “water” around them, the Jedi focus to feel it surrounding them, understanding how that “water” binds them together. They can feel vibrations or “disturbances” within this “water” and can create ripples and flows in the “water” that can manipulate farther objects by having them pushed, moved or levitated. The “water” also talks to them so they can “see” and understand actions that are happening far away as if the “water” particles could whisper from one molecule to the next and send information faster than light. This allows them to see things before they happen, see into the future, and sense disturbances and actions from far away.
     
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  9. The_Phantom_Calamari

    The_Phantom_Calamari Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2011
    Christianity is plagued by the same internal contradiction. I imagine Lucas's sequels would have explored the famous conundrum. You can hardly fault Lucas's fictional metaphysics for failing to resolve one of the world's most intractable theological problems.

    I think it would have been interesting, at the very least.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2018
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  10. BlackRanger

    BlackRanger Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 14, 2018
    Not to mention theodicy, the "problem of evil", or how a benevolent deity can allow evil to exist. (Evidently fiction writing was much less common in the days when monotheistic holy texts were being written!)
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2018
  11. DarthTalonx

    DarthTalonx Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2014
    Honestly the more I hear from Lucas, the more my respect grows. What a beautiful quote. I now sincerely genuinely want his sequels. Because my word, the Force would have been felt with that kind of theme in what happens next.

    There is I think an interview where you just could listen forever. Thank you George Lucas for Star Wars. What a gift to humankind!
     
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  12. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2015
    I wanted to reply earlier, but more important things prevailed. And I feel compelled to express my discomfort with Mr. Lucas pseudo-theological approach or whatever you may call it.

    At a banquet on behalf of Joseph Campbell Lucas called him "his Yoda". Now, Campbell's "Yoda" was Carl Jung and his concept of the Collective Unconscious: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_unconscious

    In simple words our morals and myths are hereditary, i.e. something we inherit from our ancestors which is is a concept I strongly believe him and wish there'd be more devoted research in this area.

    The Collective Unconscious is the premise and the bread and butter of Campbell's work, thus it irritates me that Lucas relies on Campbell's findings, yet removes the premise of the real-life concept it's based upon (which would have inspired others to do more aforementioned research).

    In its place Lucas would have put a fictional, debatable premise which is exactly the kind of "Mumbojumbo" Sir Alec Guinness (IMHO unjustifiably) criticized the Force concept for.

    I would have liked the ST to feature some interesting 'spiritual' ideas, but having learned about Lucas' mumbojumbo or gobbledygook, then I'm rather relieved no such weird ideas were featured. [face_relieved]
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2018
  13. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2005
    The premise being... inheritance?
     
  14. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2015
    I wasn't talking about the Force, but morals to distinguish what's right from wrong in a broader sense.
    No Whills required. :p
     
  15. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2005
    I see!
    I don’t see it as the Whills necessarily dictating what’s right and what’s wrong, myself. It’s more like their will is a reflection of the Collective Unconscious.
    Remember that George says the Whills in a sense ARE the Force - and that life creates the Force...
    Then there’s the fact that the Whills are also life. Does that mean they create themselves? Do they, with help from the midi-chlorians (who also happens to be a form of life), create larger lifeforms in order to procreate? What came first; life or the Force? There’s a lot to ponder there...

    Either way, I don’t feel that George has removed anything. He has simply added a layer of mysticism, suggesting that there are powers at play that we can’t quantify or truly understand except maybe on a deeply subconscious level.
    I find the concept appealing. It enriches the Star Wars mythology for me.
     
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  16. DarthTalonx

    DarthTalonx Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2014
    Excellent. You have done well!
     
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  17. The_Phantom_Calamari

    The_Phantom_Calamari Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2011
    I'm not quite sure I understand the problem you're trying to articulate.

    I will say that the Whills seem to me to represent an attempt by Lucas to go beyond the sort of myth you're talking about. According to Lucas in his most recent interview with Bill Moyers, he does indeed agree with Jung that human myths represent a projection of a collective human psychology. But he doesn't seem to think those myths have much to do with any God as it actually exists. Judging by Lucas's probing into the realm of string theory and higher order hive-mind intelligences contained within microscopic dimensions in the fourth Indiana Jones movie, I imagine he was ready to leave Campbell and Jung behind and move into a more speculative realm which mused on the theological potential of cutting edge scientific theories about the underlying nature of the universe--à la 2001: A Space Odyssey, with its hints of vast extraterrestrial intelligences and dimensional portals to exotic regions of space.

    Lucas did have this to say about a potential fourth trilogy (which presumably would have corresponded to this current trilogy, given the originally planned third trilogy about the defeat of the Emperor being ultimately collapsed into the "second" trilogy) during the making of Return of the Jedi:

    It's very telling that Lucas was having these sorts of ideas about a potential continuation of the series beyond the main narrative dealing with the defeat of the Emperor. Given his recent statements indicating a very esoteric turn for his version of the sequel trilogy, I don't think this inclination of his was just a passing fancy.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2018
  18. Count Yubnub

    Count Yubnub Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 1, 2012
    Mods, can you PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PRETTY PLEASE do something about people quoting long chunks of text? Pretty please?
     
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  19. Bazinga'd

    Bazinga'd Skywalker Saga / WNU Manager star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    Baz Comment: Whst specifically do you want us to do. There is no rule in the TOS that prevents it unless the post or thread is unusually disruptive, not relevant, or causes technical issues with the board. If you want to discuss more in depth, send @anakinfansince1983 @cubman987 and myself a PM.
     
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  20. Ancient Whills

    Ancient Whills Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2011
    https://www.starwars.com/news/star-wars-episode-i-the-phantom-menace-oral-history

    Episode I marked George Lucas’s return to directing — his first such effort since the original Star Wars in 1977.
    The story for Episode I, dubbed “The Beginning” in early drafts and through production, would center around Jedi Knights Qui-Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan Kenobi, Queen Amidala, and their accidental discovery of a young slave named Anakin Skywalker. Meanwhile, a seemingly trivial planetary blockade would be the launching point of a secret Sith Lord’s plan to gain control of the Republic.
    The larger story of the prequels — Palpatine’s ascension to Emperor — is grounded in history.
    Galactic Design

    Officially head of the art department, Doug Chiang was in for a surprise when George Lucas briefed him on his ideas regarding the overall look of the prequels.

    ‘Well, This is the Future’

    Once in production, The Phantom Menace would lean heavily on digital effects and technology, with more visual effects shots than any film in ILM’s history.

    The Phantom Menace featured several completely digital characters. Jar Jar Binks, played through motion-capture by Ahmed Best, would be the most high-profile, a supporting character that shared screen time with our heroes. Initially, the idea was for Best to perform in a suit and have Jar Jar’s neck and head created digitally, but this proved more costly and labor-intensive than just using a full CG model. Watto, the junk dealer, and Sebulba, Anakin’s rival podracer, were two other completely CG characters that played prominent roles.

    The centerpiece action sequence of the film is the podrace, a fast, furious race between Anakin Skywalker and a smattering of strange aliens, through a course that includes a stadium, caves, rocky terrain, and the occasional Tusken Raider sniper.
    The digital revolution of which The Phantom Menace was part did not stop with effects; it played a big part in the editing of the film and the entire delivery method. Still, the movie was ultimately made utilizing techniques both new and traditional.

    George Lucas looks back on some of the film’s key scenes.

    The opening sequence, in which Obi-Wan Kenobi and Qui-Gon Jinn take on battle droids aboard the Trade Federation ship.

    Qui-Gon, Padmé, and Jar Jar come to Anakin’s home and talk around the dinner table; Anakin reveals that he had a dream in which he grows up to become a Jedi and returns to free all the slaves, while Jar Jar snags some fruit with his tongue, and Qui-Gon reveals the real reason they’re on Tatooine.

    The final duel between Qui-Gon Jinn, Obi-Wan Kenobi, and Darth Maul.

    Unexpected Reaction

    Star Wars: Episode I The Phantom Menace was released on May 19, 1999. While it shattered box office records, the reception was mixed-turned-hostile, especially when it came to Jar Jar Binks. The backlash hit those behind the scenes.

    A New Beginning

    Twenty years later, The Phantom Menace and the prequels at large may have finally found their time. Children who loved the film in 1999 have grown up. Anecdotally, Episode I remains as popular as ever with kids; prequel-related books and comics are maybe more prevalent than at any time since 1999, and the recent Qui-Gon/Obi-Wan Master & Apprentice novel landed on the New York Times Bestseller List; at Star Wars Celebration Chicago in April, a 20th anniversary panel drew thousands and many, many ovations — the loudest of which was for Ahmed Best. Here, the creators of The Phantom Menace reflect on the movie and its wider acceptance today.

     
  21. Alexrd

    Alexrd Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2009
    Finally, some interesting stuff to read on StarWars.com. I particularly loved this part:

     
  22. The_Phantom_Calamari

    The_Phantom_Calamari Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2011
    These are my favorite parts (from the full piece):

    I don't care what anybody says. That's a good director, right there.
     
  23. KyleKartan

    KyleKartan Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 4, 2004
    To endorce this here is the very last Quote of the article which I love:

    Maybe its not AWAY but it certainly very quiet around Jar Jar These days. The Prequels receive Love, aprreciation and respect!

    BTW: I LOVE GEORGE LUCAS! Such a great, humble down to earth guy!

    And this just makes we sad and ashamed for the fandom that a SW actor was scared...AFRAID...to attend SW Celebration. Shows how toxic our fandom has become. Iam glad he just received love and respect!

     
    Last edited: May 27, 2019
  24. InterestingLurker

    InterestingLurker Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 15, 2011
    I'm reviving this thread, if the mods don't mind.

    Does anyone have a compilation of what Lucas said about the ST and what he wanted for it over the years?
     
  25. Ancient Whills

    Ancient Whills Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2011
    Some excerpts of Lucas' interview from the new Star Wars Archives book.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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