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The Mandalorian Mandalorians (Clans, Tribes, Mercs) in The Mandalorian (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV- Current and Future Shows' started by Jedi Knight Fett, Nov 12, 2019.

  1. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Yup.

    I just also think that Favreau, working with a visual creator like Filoni, who oversaw giving Clan Viszla that branch/stitch symbol in Rebels alongside their old shriek-Hawk one, and who has that quote clarifying that “Clans” serve under “Houses,” is more likely to have deliberately had some stunt men costumed with the shriek hawk, colored mostly in blue, and have a member carry one of the banners during the initiation for another young Mando with a blue helmet. (The kid’s name is apparently Ragnar according to the captions, by the way.)

    We didn’t see either the shriek hawk or twig in previous Covert appearances, and these dudes seem to have deliberately been given TCW-style decorations. Whether it ever gets called out in dialogue or just acts as a handy way to show that Paz has a personal clique implied to be his family as part of the background, I think its cool.

    On a separate note… is anyone else in favor of calling the mercenaries who left Bo and took her fleet with them “corsairs” until or unless they get some other specific name?
     
  2. Sarge

    Sarge 5x Wacky Wednesday winner star 10 VIP - Game Winner

    Registered:
    Oct 4, 1998
    Sure, and they can fly these.

    [​IMG]
     
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  3. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    I've got some thoughts on Din's first armor, the seeming Viszla clan members of the new Covert group, and the other more colorful but seemingly less coordinated armors of the other Mandos in the Covert.

    If the Viszla guys primarily use standardized blue coloring in their personalized paint schemes (though not only that color), maybe the more motley colorings of other Mandos symbolize being foundlings or even just "clanless" Mandos - thus why Din had his hodge podge armor in Season One.
     
  4. MercenaryAce

    MercenaryAce Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 10, 2005
    In the ceremony, we can see some flags for Clan Rook and Clan Eldar, so it does seem like a mixed bunch.

    Makes sense - support material suggests while the past clans directly fought with each for control, in more recent times all the clans were divided among the main political factions like how Bo-Katan was Death Watch while her sister and nephew were New Mandalorians, and why Pre Vizla was able to pretend to be a New Mandalorian governor despite the Vizla clan's association with death watch. The Children of the Watch are probably no different, and in particular might have picked up a lot of the survivors of the clans that attempted to fight the empire - people often turn to religious orthodoxy in the wake of major tragedy or defeat.
     
  5. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    So two things I noticed:

    We now know that House Kryze were the singular ruling family of Mandalore before the civil war that served as Satine and Bo Katan’s origin story and their father’s death - and that logically, the death of House Kryze’s patriarch did not stop the assumption of power by his pacifist daughter and the rise of the New Mandalorian regime, backed and supported by The Protectors and the vast majority of the people of Mandalore itself.

    So I kind of want to ask this: how many still-willing-to-kick-ass Mandos do you think supported the New Mandalorian regime? Pre Viszla seemingly has to recruit a bunch of inexperienced neophytes like himself, while Fenn Rau could apparently keep his armor and act as a clone fighter instructor, and Clan Wren have been inferred to have maintained their traditions and heraldry through the period.

    I’m starting to think that most of the Mandalroian worlds were ruled by clans that had comparatively small amounts of warriors and Beskar, and that the majority of “real” Mandos with access to Beskar armor lived on Mandalore itself. Then, making sure those clans weren’t giving fighters and armor to Death Watch was comparatively easy (or at least they had few enough members that it would be harder to ascertain), until Death Watch successfully took over.

    This would also explain Ketsu Onyo having non-Mandalorian armor and Alrich Wren belonging to a lower social level than his wife and apparently having no armor; “subjects” might not have the same resources as “citizens.”
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2023
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  6. Jedi Master Frizzy

    Jedi Master Frizzy Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
    If we look at canon and little EU. It seems like only factions that got exiled were factions like Death Watch. They were the most brutal and vile Mandalorians. They killed in EU, Jaster Mereel and his faction. The House of Viszla seems to have lost their way after the death of Tarre Viszla. And only gotten worse with the ages to Pre Viszla.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2023
  7. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    TCW tried to say that any armored warrior was exiled from Mandalore, which would fit with how the Protectors and police officers ditched their outfits for new designs. But Rebels’s tie in comic had Fenn Rau’s wearing his helmet in his fighter, so that might point to limited “legal” use of armor outside of Mandalore itself. And Almec talked about warriors fleeing to the moon, but that’s both still pretty close to Mandalore itself, and he didn’t point to it as a likely source of the saboteur Obi-Wan was investigating, so even that might have been “legal.”

    Personally… I’m kind of hoping we get some lore story that adapts the factions from the old Open Season story in Legends to fit into the Mandalorian civil war, but that separates Tor’s Death Watch from Pre’s; it would work great if Pre’s Death Watch wa s inspired by both his kinsman’s black armored organization, but also took inspiration from Jango Fett’s lethal rampage that took the organization down.

    The TCW BTS explanation for the group’s armor designs was that the admired Jango, and Pre’s crazy enough he might genuinely have fanboyed over the silver-and-blue-clad avenger ending his kinsman’s faction just because of how cool it was.

    It would also open up a greater explanation for why Bo might join Death Watch if that Death Watch wasn’t behind her father’s death.

    Maybe he was killed by another rival House leader, or even by the True Mandalorians.
     
  8. Jedi Master Frizzy

    Jedi Master Frizzy Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
    I think in canon they will have it so death watch is the same in both clone wars and Mandalorian civil wars. But lead by maybe Pre's uncle and had different armor colors. Jango and Pre would be footsoldiers or low rank leaders. Like you have three factions fighting each other. And only hope who refused to go away with being a warrior were exiled. And Bo falling for the influence of an unknown enemy that killed her father. Jango losing everything and becomes the most deadly bounty hunter. I think Jaster and Jango faction were the losers and got killed off. Not happy ending for anyone.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2023
  9. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    A lot of this will come down to how Mandalorians measure political power and strength - which may be something more solid, like the land-based power comparisons of medieval Europe, or more variable, like how many feared and veteran soldiers they have sworn to them, like Alexander the Great’s successors with the Macedonian armies, or even something like an institutional position you jockey for, like Rome’s Emperor’s and their relationship to the Legions.

    And of course, it could simply be a sci-fi, less-extermination-focused version of the Great Houses form Game of Thrones, with a lot of variables.

    We know Kryze apparently has a planet they have ancestral rule over - Kalevala. If it’s a significantly populated and prosperous planet, than that might make them an eternal power player in Mandalorian politics even if they lack standing in the central capital. It also looks like it houses a larger castle and might (depending on whether the planet with the working dome we’ve seen in the trailers is Kalevala or not) have a greater population than Krownest, the other Non-Mandalore planet we know is ruled by Mandalorians, albeit a Clan. TCW also gave it at least one other family name, Merrick, that apparently claimed the title of “Prince” for it’s scion, and the planet’s Senator (another indicator of size).

    Maybe Viszla or other Houses compete over Mandalore itself, but that can act as a neutralizing factor when stacked against the Kryzes having an outside power base - sort of like how the Plantagenet kings of England wielded the resources of their British and French holdings against the other whenever they had to.

    I’ve also got a minor theory that all or most of the Houses might have had Mandalores at one point or another - Mandalore having a less stable and more competence history would make that work, especially since we know that Viszla and a Kryze were apparently competing dynasties, but also that they never pursued policies of extermination of a rival line. Houses being the networks of Allie’s that skilled politicians and generals used to cement their control of Mandalore would make sense.
     
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  10. Chris0013

    Chris0013 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 21, 2014
    Korkie and friends all need to show up alive...

    [​IMG]
     
  11. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Dec 14, 2010
    Come to think of it, Satine didn’t seem to raise Korkie or his friends with pacifism - at least, not pacifism by the Galaxy’s standards - since we know that they’re all perfectly willing to pop a space-cap in soemone’s ***. Hell, Korkie is willing to shoot someone in the back when he comes to rescue his aunt, and she seems about as occupied by that as she is by her guards and police using blasters and other weapons.

    Satine is an “absolute” pacifist (provided it’s not droids she can one-shot with a deactivator) but is it maybe more correct to say that the New Mandalorian government are pacifists by Mandalorian standards?
     
  12. Jedi Master Frizzy

    Jedi Master Frizzy Force Ghost star 8

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    Jan 15, 2018
    I think Satine Kryze was the hardcore pacifist with some of her goverment, and most were both pacifist and Mandalorian warrior.
     
  13. Darth_Accipiter

    Darth_Accipiter Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 2, 2015
    Considering the warriors were banished from Mandalore proper, I think most of the government was indeed pacifist in ideology. The Police are armored but don't carry firearms and were easily defeated by armed gangsters.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2023
  14. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Dec 14, 2010
    See, I think I distinctly remember seeing the cops actually have blasters. I feel like we totally saw them try and take on Savage Oppress and the Pykes with them.

    And I know that TCW, for whatever reason, showed a Mandalore that Death Watch got driven off of without Republic help somehow, and which only succumbed to a false flag operation backed by the combined ALL major criminal organizations bullied into it by Maul.

    …I kind of just really want to see some non-armorers Mandos show they can totally hold their own through numbers, logistical support, and the same chutzpah the rest of the Galaxy has. I like Korkie not being afraid to blast someone without armor, and I think it would pay to see that Ketsu comes form similar stock.
     
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  15. darkspine10

    darkspine10 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Dec 7, 2014
    We do have Almec, who traditionally wore the clothes of a basic government official, but when pressed to fight switched for a set of armour, presumably a family heirloom rather than something grabbed off the shelf based on its unique colour scheme and design. That's one example at least of a 'New Mandalorian' who wasn't afraid to honour his warrior heritage when push came to shove.
     
  16. B3

    B3 Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 21, 2014
    So, I'm rewatching some episodes of TCW and suddenly it occurs to me that Satine's earrings represent mythosaur tusks. Is this something everybody knew about and I'm just really slow on the uptake? I searched and found one or two mentions of it on this site years ago, but up until now I certainly had no idea.
     
  17. Chris0013

    Chris0013 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 21, 2014
    I head canon that they stuck together and got off Mandalore before the Imperial's took full control. They were part of a Mandalorian Rebel group that never joined the overall Alliance and are still alive and kicking in the time of The Mandalorian.
     
  18. Jedi Master Frizzy

    Jedi Master Frizzy Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
    What if there's another Kryze member around now, Korkie Kryze and blond student got together. Bo Katan just assumes Korkie Kryze is dead.

    I think all of the New Mandalorians had family Mandalorian armor they used during the Mandalorian civil wars. Almec being one. Behind the scenes, Satine Kryze would wear Mandalorian armor and fight against Death Watch and Maul. So she had her own armor too.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2023
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  19. Chris0013

    Chris0013 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 21, 2014

    Korkie and Lagos....I guess Amis (other guy) and Soniee (other girl) can get together as well.

    I do like the idea of them showing up and Bo being happy to see her nephew is still alive.
     
  20. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval Head Admin & TV Screaming Service star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    It would be nice to see anyone happy to learn Korkie were alive.
     
  21. Darth_Accipiter

    Darth_Accipiter Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 2, 2015
    Maybe Korkie is Snoke.
     
  22. Sarge

    Sarge 5x Wacky Wednesday winner star 10 VIP - Game Winner

    Registered:
    Oct 4, 1998
    Somehow, Korkie returned.
     
  23. Chris0013

    Chris0013 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 21, 2014
    Don't start that again...
     
  24. MercenaryAce

    MercenaryAce Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 10, 2005
    I kind of wish that Korkie is dead. Not because I dislike the character or anything, but because the purge should kill some characters we know and like to have the full emotional effect it should for the audience, which basically leaves Korkie, his friends, the Wrens, and Fenn Rau.

    Yes, thank you. I have been saying for a while, Satine was personally a pacifist, and the New Mandalorians are more peaceful than traditional ones, but the New Mandalorians as a whole are not pacifists.

    I mean, they have flamethrowers in their police cars, does that sound friggen pacifist by any standard?
    (and the incident in where they are used shows that Satine's own pacifism ends when she gets sufficiently pissed off, particularly by harming children)


    More seriously - we see the new mandalorian police carry blasters, their defense minister was confident they could beat death watch without republic aide, and Fenn Rau was a Mandalorian Protector - Satine's bodygaurds with the electrostaffs - who led a Mandalorian fighter squadron in service to the republic during the clone wars and hated death watch.

    Plus, Satine and her peaceful rule are relatively recent. Long enough that some people have grown up with it, but someone as old as Almec was almost certainly a warrior veteran of the clan wars, and Sundari is probably full of people who were warriors but put aside the armor...and could take it up again easily enough.

    It even comes off as a big part of the initial Mandalorian arc - Dooku refuses to just invade to put Vizla on the throne as an allied puppet like he does on other worlds like Onderon or Ryloth out of fear of what the Mandalorians would do if angered by the CIS and Death Watch, and tries to trick the Republic into invading instead to instead turn the people against the Republic and have the Mandos be angry against them instead.

    Heck, given how big death watch seems to become after Darth Maul basically pulls off the same trick with the gangsters as his designated bad guys, it seems like a fair number of Mandos took up the armor again - at least, that seems more likely than training a bunch of new warriors from scratch in so short a time.

    In fact, apparently there was going to be an arc where Satine actually took up the armor to defend Mandalore against a new threat and compromised with Death Watch, which got cut as time constraints led to the arc where she died instead.
    [​IMG]
     
  25. DannyD

    DannyD Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2017
    I had no idea either. Nice find (and a nice touch). I wonder where else the icon has been used other than Boba?