ST Mark Hamill (Luke Skywalker) In Episode IX

Except it appears that he is only as 'alive' as Luke, Obi-Wan, Yoda and Anakin...

 

What is death when it's not really an end?

The point of Plapy surviving is that he can still do evil.

 

Oh good, I guess it doesn't really matter that Luke died then? In fact he survived. I guess he wasn't really the last Jedi either since Obi-Wan, Yoda and Anakin were still around.

Of course there is a difference between Palpatine being a spirit haunting the Death Star and surviving.

 

So people say the defeat of Sidious in the OT doesnt matter anymore if he returns in Ep IX?! How would his return as Ghost or whatever be any different from the return of Sauron in LotR, who was defeated by Isildur by cutting off the ring of power and was nearly killed with only a shadow of him surviving and hiding? How is it different from defeating Voldemort at Godrics Hollow when Baby Harry became the Boy who lived and THE Hero of the Wizzarding World. Voldemort became a shadow and hid for many years. None of both returns take away the victory of the first defeat or the hero status of the person who defeated the villian.

Is it different because its SW?

 

The answer is it depends on what Plapy is able to do, or has been able to do, by surviving, apparently, in spirit form.

If Plapy was able to manipulate the First Order into destroying Hosnian Prime and everything else -- getting Ben to kill Han, destroying Luke's order -- then yes, that's a bit too much of an active "death" to really count as one, am I right?

The fallacy is in assuming that all spirits, Jedi and Sith, have the same powers and motivations. That's obviously false.

However, if Plapy hasn't been behind the events of the ST and is just now awakening for some reason, becoming active only now, then that's a bit different, and it's more about trying to ensure that the Chosen One's legacy remains intact.

Considering how the ST has treated legacies, I would assume that the Chosen One's legacy is next on the hit list.

 

Yes.

Because ROTJ was supposed to be the finish point that sets the galaxy on the right path. Now, the OT might as well have not happened because everything its heroes touched turned to ash. Even killing Palpatine is now gone. Your other examples are the primary story - with this, the primary story is rewritten so that new heroes can take the place of old.

 

I thought darksiders weren’t supposed to be able to force ghost?

 

I suspect the ability is different. Probably something akin to Mother Talzan's ability (more like a haunting).

 

Johnson tore up the rules GL set so he could have his characters do what they want.

 

Well the whole concept of the Sequels contradict that Ep VI finish point. So no matter what would happen in VII, VIII and IX you wouldnt like it *shruggs*?

 

If it did what it did to Luke, Han and Leia and all they accomplished, no. I don't care who made it. You don't basically say "oh, that middle was just, y'know, things that happened and now we're going to do it right" which is what they're saying. Which is absolutely appalling, considering it's undercutting the very thing that started it all, the very characters that are the best known of the whole thing, the very characters that made a Star Wars universe and property in the first place.

 

if the point of the OT3 is to pass down the torch to the next generation where is such passing torch? They seem brought back to be killed off without much else.

and our pov of them from between trilogies is how they are all terrible people for how they treated the mass murder Ben.

 

Let’s see what RoS tells us.

 

So many contradictions, so many out of character or lack of natural character progression from ROTJ...

Luke and Leia's paths as suggested by GLs outline. Ackbar going from being the senior Rebel tactician and general, now being just a member of Leia's staff, was he demoted in terms of responsibility rather than rank?

From what we've seen so far Luke created Kylo Ren more than Snoke, if Abrams or LFL aren't interested in showing Luke training Ben then that won't change.

 

will be curious to see how much Luke in IX is retcon given that this ST is incoherent.

and Leia's role won't be the same due to Fisher's passing.

 

Good point. But I believe it is different for Star Wars. In Lotr, the tale of Sauron's first defeat is told as an old legend. In the novel we see him for the first time ever. I know there's The Silmarillion, but it would be published decades after Lotr.
In SW, however, the fall of Palpatine was an event every fan watched countless times and said "this is it, he's been defeated for good". So, watch him return will feel forced.

 

Leia gave herself the title of general when she created The Resistance. Akbar should have asked for a better title.

 

I thought Silmarillion came first.

He was an admiral.

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Silmarillion came first in terms of book setting but not release, it was even published after JRR died by his son. That book is pretty much biblical like, funny thing is that Sauron the big bad in the 2nd and 3rd ages was nothing but a lackey to the real Dark Lord Morgoth/Melkor.

 

Right. The Silmarillion also covers the LOTR time period, so technically it doesn’t all happen before, but yeah. It starts with the creation of the world (Arda) of which Middle Earth is a part. Morgoth/ Melkor was a Valar (essentially, a god or angel) that rebelled against Iluvatar (the God) in a very Luciferian way, and was exiled. Sauron was a more minor spirit (Maiar) that followed Morgoth into exile, and acted as his lieutenant. Later, after Morgoth was permanently imprisoned by the Valar, Sauron began his rise.

 

would say Morgoth is more of a fallen angel and is pretty much the devil of the story. Interesting that Sauron took the idea of the ring from Morgoth too, as Morgoth's ring which was him spreading his power/influence/evil on Arda itself, which also weakened him greatly so when his armies were defeated he couldn't do anything and was cast out to the void. Seems like Tolkien had a plan for his return in a doomsday type story, Dagor Dagorath.

as for Eru he's the one who revived Gandalf the White when he died and he's the one that made it that Gollum dropped his ring to be found by Bilbo (not an accident) and there are also hints that he's the one that made Gollum trip and die in the Volcano in Return.

 

I hear he also thinks Luke Skywalker sucks.

 

I sincerely hope Rey or Kylo is not another Chosen One, that the Force needs to balance Lighy and Dark. Anakin was the Chosen One as you eloquently said, and he completed his calling when he tossed Playps down the Death Star II shaft.

Most likely Palyps is a Sith Spectra (see the last episode of The Clone Wars Series) and Kylo goes to Korriban to complete his training. Luke appears as a Force Ghost to aid Rey in her preparation to confront Kylo, just as Obi-Wan did for Luke in ROTJ when he had to face confronting Vader. J.J. Abrams like themes and traditions to continue, hence why the Force Awakens was more like the Classic Trilogy.

 

So we don't even have rumors on what color FG Luke's robes will be, correct? The white/grey of the Ahch-To cliff scene? The Dark cloak over white of the TFA flashback? A more Obi-Wan-like dark brown and tan look?

 

I have a suspicioun that however Luke comes back, he's not going to have the blue shimmering look from ESB and ROTJ. I think JJ will give him a more physical presence, even if he's just a spirit/ghost.