ST Mark Hamill (Luke Skywalker) in the ST

My apology for quoting posts from a few pages ago, but you guys have definitely gone crazy in this topic these past 2 days and I have not been able to catch up because life. Also, I needed some time to recover from the very uncomfortable feeling (to say the least) that I get when I come across a photo of RJ holding an award and/or TLJ screenshots, but it's Sunday, I got my coffee, the sun is out, so all is bright and happy outside and inside.

1. No, the original point (and topic of this thread) is Luke Skywalker's character. Perceptions of any movie with prequels and sequels change all the time, and that's ok. George Lucas did not change anything major in the OT, no, I refuse to acknowledge that, including important characters with a lot of screen time. I think we have exhausted this topic, but seriously, I can't see how anyone can compare anything that GL did, with stuff that appear to come out of nowhere in the ST.

2. When a character has been introduced, developed, established and shown to evolve throughout 6 hours of movie time, but in the next 2 hours we see him, he does not resemble at all what has been demonstrated in the past, the fact of the matter is that these 30 years don't matter much. There are core elements in each of us that don't change, and some of us are making the claim that these core elements appear very different in Luke. Would you be sold to the idea that Luke is a Sith Lord in the ST? I wouldn't. But I find it equally disturbing with TLJ Luke. The Sith Lord approach would at least make up for some pop corn entertainment, if we got to see Luke spitting lightning from every crevice.

3. Yes, that's the problem. That he blames himself.

4. I don't feel empathy for Luke, because I simply do not think that Luke is Anakin. What works for Anakin, could never work for Luke, because he is supposed to be the infallible one. If they had yearbooks on Tattooine, under Anakin we would read "most probably to fall to the dark side" whereas under Luke we would read "most probable to always actively try to save his friends and the galaxy".

5. And I am even remotely jealous that you don't hate it. But I do hate it. I loathe the decision to deconstruct everything in the ST.

6. The fact that Han (and the movie) says it, is not enough. In the 50-50 question of whether Luke is hurting the galaxy more by A) doing nothing about the problem or B) solving the problem, I would answer 100 out of 100 times that B) is the right answer. And if the professor (aka director in this case) tells me it's A), then I will tell the professor that they are wrong.

7. Anakin existed in the OT for about 5 minutes. He did not receive a lot of screen time, and he did have almost any plot exposition. For anyone who has watched only the OT, Anakin is an old guy who saved his son from death, and a few minutes later died. There is nothing in the prequels that contradicts that in any possible way.

8. Lucasfilm reserves the right to do whatever they want, and I reserve the right to criticize what they do, if I think they did not do it well and/or consistently.

1. In my experience, the ST by far. Does it matter?

2. Luke in the OT tries to fix even the stuff that he knows he is not responsible for. Luke in the ST doesn't bother fixing even the stuff that he (falsely) thinks he is responsible for.

3. He also unwittingly causes the death of his parents (yes, they are his parents but all accounts except from biological) in the first 30 minutes of ANH. Maybe his actions later are shaped by a dead end (he doesn't have another option), but he still overcomes these obstacles and helps defeat the Empire. Scratch that. The Empire is defeated because of him.

4. It depends on your point of view. I am not sold even for a second to the idea that it makes sense for Luke to blame himself for the destruction of the temple, no matter how many times a screenshot with his shocked face is posted. So, the same character is able to recognize that the Empire killed his parents, blew up a planet, tortured billions of people and have caused terrorized an entire galaxy, but he is unable to recognize that it was Snoke and Kylo Ren who burned down his temple and kill his Jedi students? I just don't buy it.

5. Not sure what that has to do with anything?

6. For you, it might be so, and I totally accept that. For me, it doesn't matter what went on during these 30 years. I do not see a single path in Luke's life, that would have led to him quitting everything and leaving the galaxy in a terrible state.

7. Anakin is a lot more than whiny in the prequels. He has a full character development. And I do not see him as petulant or emo at all. How is there a chasm between Anakin in the PT and Vader in the OT, when we are talking about two completely different characters? Also, how is Vader pre-Mustafar any different from Vader post-Mustafar other than turning robotic? Lucas did not do everything perfect, but that was one thing he nailed with ROTS.

We literally have no idea what Lucas would have done with Luke. And we have no obligation to like what Lucas would have done with Luke. If he had done the same with Luke as RJ did, I would have been saying the exact same things, with the notion that since he is the creator of these characters, he is not disrespecting anyone else. But money talks, and Disney gained the right to do whatever they want with all of Star Wars.

I cannot like this post enough.

 

Love this moment from Luke.



Seeing him float in meditation was a visual I always imagined as well. Very cool.

 

There’s a gif I remember seeing that provides a lively interpretation of that guy’s bare abs, and which could really add a lot to this conversation. If anyone knows what I’m referring to, please feel free to post it.

 

Oh god please don't.

 

save us from this Obi-Wan Kenobi, you are our only hope.

 

And I thought if you’re using all your strength to Force project, floating while doing it is stupid.why use that energy?

 

Maybe it’s all part of the same force magic process? To be honest...Looks cool and that’s good enough for me in that situation.

 

Spoiler

 

I don't think Mark Hamill really understood Ryan's vision. His main criticism is of the line, "it's time for the jedi to end"... I get the impression that Mark Hamill is taking this line a bit out of context. I think it's more than creative differences, I don't think he understands Ryan's vision at all...

There were deeper dialogues that expanded upon what Ryan's vision was, and put that line into proper context.... But out of context and taken literally, the line I believe leads many to not really understand what Ryan was going for...

Ryan was trying to give audiences a deeper understanding of the force, as Luke had come to realize it himself. That did make Luke neglect "worldly" matters and resort into an deep existential philosophical off the grid existence... but I don't think it truly changed the character. The character had become "enlightened" even if that meant becoming inactive and off the grid. You won't see many Buddhist monks fighting others or living in crowded busy communities...nor will they concern their selves with many wordy affairs...

The point of the TLJ is that Luke became so aware of what the force was that he no longer wanted to play an active role in something he felt was inevitable... where he felt his role was just a pawn...He wasn't trying to give up on the Jedi, or give up on the good fight...

It was much deeper than that. He wanted the CYCLE of good and bad to end... he wanted the suffering and pain to end, he always just a pawn in dark rising and light rising. That's why he shut off from the force.... Which is why Rey became so powerful over night...

"It's time for the jedi to end" was in the context of the film much deeper...it meant he wanted the perpetual cycle of light rising/ dark rising to end...

Obi Wan played a similar role of introversion and became a hermit until some one else came along. When it came time to face off, he too was slain. In the movie universe, that's how it works...a jedi has his or her day in the sun... They get old.... dark side rises to power....and then light side rises to power in new blood and new blood restores balance to the galaxy.

Also Luke never really ran away, but it could be argued that he was hiding behind his beliefs and values. Though, I think it was completely realistic to see his beliefs and values evolve into what they had. Ryan, even took the time to develop the character's narrative and illustrate how he came to such a conclusion, "it's time for the jedi to end"....Luke was standing behind his beliefs, and behind his realization of what the force was. He knew how much pain and suffering and loss the force brings. He no longer wanted to be it's pawn.

"LUKE: What do you know about the Force? REY: It's a power that Jedi have that lets them control people and make things float. LUKE: Impressive. Every word in that sentence was wrong. Lesson one, sit here, legs crossed. The Force is not a power you have. It's not about lifting rocks. It's the energy between all things, a tension, a balance, that binds the universe together. REY: OK. But what is it? LUKE: Close your eyes. Breathe. Now, reach out. REY: I feel something. LUKE: You feel it? REY: Yes, I feel it. LUKE: It's the Force. REY: Really? LUKE: Wow, it must be really strong with you. REY: I've never felt anythi----OW! You meant reach out like.... I'll try again. LUKE: Breathe. Just breathe. Reach out with your feelings. What do you see? REY: The island. Life. Death and decay, that feeds new life. Warmth. Cold. Peace. Violence. LUKE: And between it all? REY: Balance. And energy. A Force. LUKE: And inside you? REY: Inside me the same Force. LUKE: And this is the lesson. That Force does not belong to the Jedi. To say that if the Jedi die, the light dies, is vanity. Can you feel that? REY: There's something else beneath the island. A place. A dark place. LUKE: Balance. Powerful light...powerful dark"

I believe that the line was a lot more complex and layered than he has given it credit for. I don't think he honestly understands Ryan's vision for the character.

Regardless of his interpretation of the character, and having played the character...I think people are putting way too much stock into his interpretation of Ryan's vision for the character. I don't think that he even understood it, to be honest...but that's just my opinion.

 

It seems that every jedi master of the film universe went into exile, after failure, and after there was a rise in the dark-side, to do absolutely nothing but wait until another Jedi came along to train....Obi Wan, Yoda, and Luke...

You can argue that Obi wan was protecting Luke, waiting to train him...but Obi Wan already destroyed Vader once...but wouldn't face him again in 30 years?

I don't think that Luke literally wanted to die. Though Snoke does tease about this later in the film. I don't think that Luke actually wanted to die. He learns how to survive on an island in the middle of no where, all alone...some one who wants to die doesn't have that kind of drive or motivation to survive...

It's clear that he wants to be cut off from the force... that he "wants the jedi to end"... that's all that's clear.

If that were the case, living on an island all alone, and not a being a religious man, surely he would have taken his life. He cut himself off from the force, which is significant to the story... It's a sort of death, just not in the physical sense...

i wasn't really arguing the interpretation of a fictional man, who has no real story whatsoever...but the vision Ryan had to take his character in. Which I thought was convincing enough given all the heart ache and temptations towards the darkside Luke had faced before. Regardless of what any one may want to believe, Luke has shown in the actual movie universe that he is less than perfect and has nearly succumbed to the dark side before...Yes, he resisted but he was tempted and did give into his anger...

I don't think GL's opinion is sacred, nor relevant anymore...

I don't spend every moment wondering if a scene in the NT is true to GL's vision... If I were to watch the new films like that I'd have to spend every moment comparing one scene to something from the original film trilogy and well that's not what the new films are intended to be. Though, TFA did bear a resemblance to ANH in several ways.... GL thought too much so...

Actually, the man didn't like TFA because it was "too derivative of the original Star Wars trilogy. "

Lucas gave the same reaction last year leading up to the huge release of "The Force Awakens." A few weeks later, however, he told Charlie Rose that he was disappointed that Disney wanted to "make something for the fans" with more of a remakequel, rather than an original story.

The man sold his franchise... his involvement is minimal.... So, you know writers don't have to copy and paste what he does or try to remain faithful to whatever his vision may be.... whatever that may be... because who the heck knows? Creative freedom is fine, it gives new life to character and original stories. Writers can't be too timid and inside of a box... Even Lucas wants original stories...

As for Mark Hammil's ideas? He hadn't played Luke in about 30 years... things change, people change...He lived and played a character for about 3 years time not counting the time between films... He's an actor... It's not his job to write, he gives life to what's written. Some times that influences writers but ultimately he's not the one that gives writers all their ideas. I've never seen it written or stated anywhere that Lucas got all his great ideas for Luke Skywalker from Mark Hamill...
If Star Wars actor Mark Hamill had had his way, you might have been seeing a very different Luke Skywalker in Return Of The Jedi. He wanted Luke to be evil... never happened...

‘As an actor that would be more fun to play,’ Hamill explained. ‘I just thought that’s the way it was going from when we finished (The Empire Strikes Back). I figured that’s what will be the pivotal moment. ‘I’ll have to come back, but it will be I have Han Solo in my crosshairs and I’ll be about to kill him or about to kill the Princess or about to kill somebody that we care about.’ Mark Hamill....

Gee...what movie did you guys see? Because that's not the one I saw... I don't remember Lucas taking writing inspiration from Han Solo either who wanted to be killed off in Jedi, do you? Though, he did take ideas, inspiration on occasion from Harrison Ford, Indiana Jones comes to mind...

Lucas loved Rogue One... because it was an original story that ADDED something new to what we had already seen...

It's already been established that Luke is an imperfect character, flawed hero. Like most people who go through trauma, like wanting to kill your father, if you are triggered by a similar experience you may relapse....as Luke did when confronting Kylo Ren when he saw how dark he was becoming and what evil and suffering he was going to bring an ENTIRE GALAXY...

Regardless of being a hero in the end, Luke nearly destroys Vader. He stops, and throws down his weapon but it's not all too dis-similar to what happens between Luke and Kylo. The scenes are pretty similar, actually...

It is very clear to me how Luke ended up shutting off from the force and why he is on that island. For me, it was spelled out very clearly...as was Ryan's vision of the force.
However, I'm not going to post the entire movie script, and every dialogue written to describe his vision and scene that symbolically references his vision of the force for the sake of establishing my own argument. If you didn't see it the same way, then that's entirely your own relative experience of the film. To me, it was very clear what Ryan's vision was, as well as his take on the character...

Whether or not his "force philosophy" works is up for debate. You could argue either way and I'll give you that... Ryan was trying to develop a new force philosophy, that he felt would enrich the story more. I agree that it may or may not fit with the other films...for me there is no conflict. I don't see how it doesn't fit the other films. Just because the Force didn't take the same route in the previous films doesn't place a handicap on Ryan's vision. It just means that it didn't need to take the same route. Who is to say that the force doesn't take whatever route necessary?

The force is some imaginary field of energy, a fictional concept... I mean that may be a lazy cop out...but certainly an all powerful mystical force can work whatever way it must for the sake of story telling....or just working as a means to move the plot forwards... and if there were some all powerful mystical field of energy I'd assume that it works in whatever way possible, regardless of however it works...

The force is some mysterious esoteric field of energy.... 1+1 doesn't have to equal 2...especially when ITS ALL FICTION. No one has fully ever established how the nature of the force works before or what it was limited to...

A mystical field within everything...at all times...surely that means it works through many things, in many different ways and takes many different paths...?

"The “pattern” of light and dark, for instance, only really exists in the ST because of the out-of-universe desire to bring in a Vader-esque figure;" speculation...

Also, to break the cycle that has been going on for centuries....no real argument there, the sith and the jedi... Luke has taken a new perspective. That the Jedi must end. No that isn't meant to be taken only at face value or literally, it's meant to be deeper...we know this because that was the way it was written...

LUKE: Breathe. Just breathe. Reach out with your feelings. What do you see? REY: The island. Life. Death and decay, that feeds new life. Warmth. Cold. Peace. Violence. LUKE: And between it all? REY: Balance. And energy. A Force. LUKE: And inside you? REY: Inside me the same Force. LUKE: And this is the lesson. That Force does not belong to the Jedi. To say that if the Jedi die, the light dies, is vanity. Can you feel that? REY: There's something else beneath the island. A place. A dark place. LUKE: Balance. Powerful light...powerful dark"

 

So what's leaving your sister and brother-in-law/best friend to deal with the fallout after their kid burns down the Jedi Academy and you both try and murder each other? If that isn't running away then there must be some new definition of running away with which I am unfamiliar.

 

yep, exactly and this simply makes no sense out of the perspective of storytelling. Just like with Iron Man and Captain America, they have different perspective and take different routes, but they do it for a reason. They are convinced to do it to help people, what was Luke concinced to achieve with his route? To go to the island to die...

 

Those are extraordinary circumstances for extraordinary people. These circumstances aren't relate-able to any normal situation or normal human being...You're talking about people with supernatural powers, part of some cosmic religion that brings order and balance to the entire galaxy through some mystical energy field...

You're questioning the actions and motives of some fictional other worldly character with has super natural abilities, tied to some mystical field of energy that binds an entire galaxy together... I mean??

Luke tried to save him, train him...he couldn't. Yoda did the same thing upon defeat....Yoda's first extinct was to go into exile, even at the height of his force abilities. He just ran away even though he could have faced Vader along side Obi Wan and together they probably could of taken Vader...

Obi wan went and lived in a desert without facing Vader again putting all his stock into a new apprentice. Obi had already faced Vader once, and won...Obi Wan was even stronger than Vader at that point as now Vader needed a mechanical suit to move and couldn't do flips in the air... but he didn't face him again...Where is the logic in that?

Luke NEVER became as powerful as Obi Wan was at that time... Well at least as far as sword play goes... We don't know if Luke was more skilled and powerful between ROTJ and TLJ....but we see nothing at the same intensity , artsy and skill with a saber as Obi Wan had in his prime...

So, he was probably the only Jedi alive that could take Anakin on in a fair fight, which he does and wins.... Both jedi are trained in the jedi arts from the original Jedi Academy itself.... and highly skilled with sabers... He beats Vader, vader lives and is limited to a mechanical suit...instead of facing Vader again... he lets Vader go on killing 1000s of innocent lives while he waits to train a boy that never learns how fight any where near at the same skill level as Obi Wan had.... passes him off to a 900 year old hermit who has aged horribly in 30 years, never finishes his training there.... goes off and faces Vader, gets his ass handed to him....??

Later in ANH when Obi Wan is an old man he faces Vader and dies....transitions into the force... Oh gee, doesn't that sound similar to what Luke does?

The fight between old Obi Wan and Vader and Old Luke and Kylo are actually very similar. In that the fights weren't really glorious but were essentially just meant to be fare wells and transitions of the force. Obi Wan is an old man when he faces Vader and focuses all his energy to transition into the force upon death. He even stops mid fight to do so....

Luke has every intention to project himself across an entire galaxy and not even truly face Ben, just so that he can transition into the force....

Both put the fate of the balance of the force into the hands of their padawans...

Yes, Luke was hiding behind his beliefs, choosing to take an inactive role, because he didn't want to face Kylo Ren...

He saw the evil in Kylo early on, the evil that lead to his academy being burnt to the ground..... and no doubt he saw vader in Kylo which is why for that short moment to spare all his other students the galaxy of another vader he thought about ending Kylo...

Normal people don't think about ending their family members....especially because they are psychic and can see the future evil they will cause... Normal people don't have the force either... Normal families are caught up in being the balancing force of an entire galaxy....

Luke shut off from the force, because he didn't want to be a part of it any more. He fled because he didn't want the burden of playing the role of light vs dark anymore... He didn't want to be a pawn of fate anymore. Which is obvious because he completely shut off from the force and went away as far as physically possible from any other living being.

It wasn't Luke's story anymore anyways, that would be like if Obi Wan defeated Vader in ANH.... that's just not the story being told. Luke's life was always burdened by his role of lightness vs dark he was born into a force sensitive family and his entire life he was fated against those in his family ruled by the dark side...

It's not difficult to believe that Luke would wear tired of his role, or shut off from it in hopes to escape it. If we believe his deeper perspective of the force, we can accept that he has his reasons for going away. The jedi are wise...and perhaps he just trusted in the force that it would find balance again...LUKE: And this is the lesson. That Force does not belong to the Jedi. To say that if the Jedi die, the light dies, is vanity.

If Luke Really believed in that, then by going away and isolating himself, and believing that the "jedi must end"...he wasn't really running away at all. Hiding behind his beliefs maybe but not running away if he really believed in that. Yes, he became inactive but he also cut himself off from the force... which in turn Rey was a strong force sensitive, seemingly chosen by fate and the force to face off against Kylo...

You can't understand Luke's motives, actions and judge them like you would a normal person.... He's force sensitive.... he's not a normal person to be judged. He's tapped into some mystical force that brings balance to the entire Galaxy....

Yes, he became inactive, and made a some what selfish choice, but he felt that he had a wise reason for doing it that served a greater purpose than himself....

Luke wasn't responsible for Kylo destroying the academy, though you can give him some fault. Kylo couldn't be saved by Luke and was so evil, dark inside that he would murder students at the academy and burn it into the ground...

The only real solution would have been to murder, end Kylo...and I don't know if we watched the same ROTJ...but Luke doesn't end or finish Vader... he tries to save him.... Luke doesn't even end the emperor, vader does... Well, Luke doesn't end Kylo either, he doesn't even face him in the flesh...

"I will not fight you, Father..."

Then Vader provokes Luke by threatening what he loves...and then Luke nearly destroys him and in the process nearly turning to the dark side...

LUKE: I saw darkness. I'd sensed it building in him. I'd see it at moments during his training. But then I looked inside... and it was beyond what I ever imagined. Snoke had already turned his heart. He would bring destruction, and pain, and death... and the end of everything I love because of what he will become. And for the briefest moment of pure instinct... I thought I could stop it. It passed like a fleeting shadow. And I was left with shame... and with consequence. And the last thing I saw... were the eyes of a frightened boy whose master had failed him






So, yeah actually Nothing is different about this Luke...Luke NEVER actually wanted to face or destroy anyone in his family...even with the potential for evil there, he wanted to save them. He knew that Ben was beyond saving...which is exactly what he tells Leia before facing off with Ben...Which he doesn't actually face off with Ben and that makes perfect sense... He allows Rey to now carry the burden that goes with the role of being the light...

He has passed the torch.

 

Nope, same exact Luke in basically the same exact situation...He even throws away his saber in both shots...

This is the same exact Luke Skywalker we knew from ROTJ. He never was there to fight or destroy anyone. He was there to bring balance and save...and he couldn't save Kylo...

Luke in Jedi nearly turns to the darkside to protect what he loves... Well, that's the same exact reason why he considers destroying Kylo in TLJ....

This is the same exact Luke. People complaining he's changed too much should be complaining that he hasn't changed enough. Luke never faces Vader with the intent of destroying him....( Once he knows that he's family of course...) So, it's not unbelievable that when faced with having to destroy Kylo that he wouldn't be any different and would choose not to...








Maybe we didn't watch the same trilogy but when Luke DID face off against Vader and nearly destroyed him...which is what it would probably take with Kylo as Luke was sure that he couldn't save him....

By nearly destroying vader, he nearly turns to the dark-side in the process...so... these situations are extremely similar. The parallels are screaming just to be noted and pointed out. I feel like I could find more all day ...

There are many parallels between ROTJ and TLJ...



Even considering what has to be done to bring balance to the force with Kylo, Luke found himself going down a very dark path that as a Jedi he wasn't willing to go down...



I'm not sure there was intentional or not, but it's rather symbolic that he holds his saber from Jedi with his robotic hand as he considers what must be done to assure that there will continuous balance within the force...

 

Yes, I am. So what if he has supernatural abilities? He’s still a human. A human who abandoned the two closet people in his life. A human who left his training to go rescue them once. Then this time, he leaves, as far as we know, without even telling them their son has turned into a killer and will probably be after them next? For some ridiculous “the Force will fix it” nonsense? Luke just runs away and leaves his sister and best friend to pick up the pieces in a battle they know nothing about?

It is NOT Obi Wan and Yoda, who had no one left. Luke abandoned his family, period. He’s also NOT old - he’s 53 and I’m sick of the ageism.

Yes, I saw ROTJ opening day 1983 and I have never been a great fan of Vader’s redemption and now even less.

 

Well, I thank you for your interesting conversation. It helped me explore my own opinions and feelings further. I'm actually going to go watch TLJ now. Thank you, I enjoyed this. Your opinions and feelings are valid.

It's interesting to discuss this movie. I think that's one of the best things about it, that people will be discussing it for a long time. It's a shame that we can't both can't enjoy the film.

Well, I'm not particularly ageist. I actually love how older actors and actresses are getting to reprise their roles now. I'd love to see it happen even more...

This conversation helped me personally notice parallels between this film and the others that I hadn't noticed before. I can see similar character trends I hadn't noticed. But, you know it's all what you want to take away from it...I guess everyone has their own thoughts and feelings about the film franchise.

This helped me build upon my own interpretation of the character. I do take away from this that Luke is a flawed human being, or that his role in life has lead him to so some selfish things that he did for reasons that he thought were correct at the time. I don't look at him as a normal person with a normal family. As selfish as his reasons may seem, I do think that he also had his reasons that were bigger than himself.

 

He’s still a human. BINGO and that illustrates WHY as a flawed human being he would behave as he did in TLJ... he is after all only human. He's not the hero people seem to think he is. He isn't imperfect.

Yes, he is human...and he is not the human being people seem to think that he is... People want to believe that he's some strong human-being, heroic jedi who runs into battle. That is NOT Luke in the OT.... Sure he shows spunk on occasion and a desire to learn but Luke never wanted the burden of having to fight his own family.

Upon learning the truth about his family lineage he bursts into tears and yells NOOOOOO!!!!!!! This realization of the truth is obviously extremely difficult for him to accept and it haunts him up until ROTJ and beyond...







So, he goes to Yoda... Luke is clearly traumatized by the news.. Yoda confirms the news and Luke's face turns stone dead in terror.... And then Yoda warns Luke about turning to the dark side saying that it will forever dominate your path....

Which Luke is tempted by the dark side in ROTJ....



Luke proves again that he will be tempted by the darkside by Kylo...
Later in Jedi, Luke goes to face Vader and is clearly carrying a very heavy emotional, psychological burden...

Luke has an intervention with Vader to try to sort out of his family issues... they have "a talk"... where Luke tries to avoid any real confrontation with Vader. Luke doesn't want confrontation ....



Luke literally freezes and refuses to fight Vader...the psychological, emotional burden is too strong so he literally HIDES from Vader, refusing to actually face him...He hides in a corner, trying to talk things out with Vader.



Vader threatens Leia, everything Luke loves....and Luke then confronts Vader violently not as a Jedi should...giving into hatred and nearly turning over to the darkside of the force... Yoda was right to warn Luke about the dark side, his concerns were valid and the Emperor is very pleased....





Luke nearly destroys Vader. Later Luke burns Vader's body, but it's a very sad scene for Luke. He is clearly deeply touched by the experience.




Flash forward to Kylo Ren's adulthood.... Look learns of his darkside, see's how much evil is inside of him....Luke relives his trauama with Vader/ Anakin....and starts to have a momentary psychological break down... only this time isn't not as dramatic as NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! Luke senses that Kylo will destroy everything he loves as he was once threatened with by Vader and he turns on Kylo for just a moment...



Luke IMMEDIATELY regrets his decision and tries to stop Kylo from a real confrotnation.... because he never actually wanted to confront Kylo, much like when hiding in a corner from Vader in ROTJ...he never wanted to actually face Vader.

It's that human side of Luke that is prone to fear of losing what he loves that nearly drove him to the darkside TWICE.... Once in both "jedi" films..



This leads Kylo to lose it very quickly and he slaughters and murders the academy students, burning it down to the ground... no doubt for the human side of Luke this messes him up even further.... I mean, I don't know about you but I'd be pretty traumatized by now...but we are only human, after all....





Luke runs and hides to an island because he can't face Kylo, nor save him.... Not to mention that the last time he faced such a force as the emperor and his own family, he nearly turns to the darkside of the force.

He's already opened to the darkside before in ROTJ and again with Kylo.... his human side clearly isn't strong enough to face Kylo again without the fear, hatred involved that may turn him to the darkside....He is after all only human, and not the hero you seem to want him to be.

Apparently Han and Leia are safe as they live safely for another 30 years without Luke after he runs and hides during his second major psychological trauma....

In the end, Luke doesn't actually face Kylo, he's reluctant to actually face him just as he was with Vader....His last act is to save what's left of the rebellion so that they and Rey can later face Kylo because Luke is done with the burden of his role with the force.... Which is a role that he never wanted or handled well to begin with. Luke's entire life was traumatic because of his role in the force. It destroyed his family, along with Leia's and Han's.... it took everything from him and threatened to take everything else...

Luke was always reluctant to fight, the human part of him always tempted him towards the darkside. He's not some all powerful, imperfect, inhuman hero as some of you seem to want him to be. He's a very flawed hero...

When faced with another vader situation after suffering as much trauma as before, he flees to an island, shuts off from the force....and hides away so that no one can find him.... sort of like when he hide from vader in a corner cowering like a little boy in Jedi.... until Vader threatened his sister....which again angers him so much he nearly goes over to the darkside...

Incidentally, it's Leia that gets Luke to become involved with the force once again in TLJ....

 

A man who views the world the same at fifty as he did at twenty has wasted thirty years of his life. - Muhammad Ali

That's not a fact. People can and do change. Luke and Han changed across the OT. Hell, Han changed in ANH! Their arcs are all about change. And let's not forget abouta Vader. Leia pretty much stayed the same, though.

All these years Ben has been waiting for Luke to come of age so that he can become a Jedi and redeem his father. That's what Ben has been doing, but you don't get this in the first film." - George Lucas: Annotated Screenplays

VADER
Obi-Wan is here. The Force is with
him.

TARKIN
If you're right, he must not be
allowed to escape.

VADER
Escape is not his plan. I must face
him alone.

----------------------------------------------

"Your destiny lies along a different path than mine."



Uhm, Ben allowed Vader to kill him, otherwise Luke would have risked his own life trying to save him. Plus, Ben knew he could still help Luke as a Force ghost, so "death" was an easy option for him.

"You were the Chosen One"

Ben merely dismembered him, and there's still the Prophecy to take into account. Killing Anakin just means Palpatine takes on another apprentice.

 

Sure thing... I apologize for that. I'll stick to single posting...

Also, it occurs to me that if Vader hadn't turned to the light side, Luke would have been destroyed and he would have never lived to become a legend. Basically, Luke would of been a failure. Luke wasn't a jedi in the traditional sense... Luke never slayed a sith with his saber... and he nearly turns to the darkside his second saber battle with a sith lord...Luke wasn't trained as Obi Wan was...his training was never completed. The only reason he's alive is because Vader chose to embrace the humanity he had left within himself. He could have left the emperor finish him off. That would have been the end...

Most jedis probably wouldn't toss away their weapon when standing toe to toe with one of the most powerful sith lords who ever lived...

That's more than a gamble Luke took, more than a leap of faith... Clearly, Luke was finished fighting at that point for the emperor, for anyone... Luke didn't even try to destroy the emperor. What exactly was the plan? There clearly wasn't one, he just went totally off the reservation there and let fate decide what was next...

His first time out fighting Vader he loses... Fortunately the emperor wanted Luke alive at that time, otherwise he would have been dead... or if not for Anakin's tiny spark of humanity, love left for his son...

Here is Luke again, badly beaten and terrified... He's about to get very difficult news that is going to mess him up even further....where he screams and cries like a little boy...it will make cinematic history... Clearly this news has him under some serious distress...




Luke struggles with darkside visions and temptation in the OT more than once....and then again in the ST with his relationship to Kylo...

Oh yeah, also there is another reason why I don't think Luke is who people choose to believe that he is... He fails at the cave, and his vision is one of the dark side, that of himself within Vader... If Vader hadn't been there in Jedi as a reminder for him of what not to become, he might of just went full dark... He was really close in ROTJ....the emperor was very pleased with his near failure as he stood over Vader about to destroy him.

The vision in the cave seemed to have warned him of the darkside....and Yoda had warned him of the same... In that scene Luke is about to turn over to the darkside but then is reminded of his father and perhaps yoda's warning and his vision at the cave, and he snaps back.

To act as if killing your own father, having your nephew turn evil and slaughter all your students, burn down your home...wouldn't have any profound effect on your psyche is short sided at best. Luke has always had a very difficult life. In the OT he had some serious family issues to work out... I find it completely believable that he snaps and goes to an island when those family issues just get even worse for him...

Leia was fine, she has an entire rebellion to watch after her and she was protected for 30 years, she also has the force.... Han is han, he doesn't need protection. When things get real, Rey finds luke. he comes back and saves the rebellion and apologizes to leia for having left. Both Han and Leia show every indication of being able to take care of their selves...

 

Can we also stop with the slideshows please can't even really interact with those posts as they are all pictures....

 

They are only pictures if you don't read... they are there for a purpose. Everything pictured is referenced and used to make my point. Though, I can stop... Pictures make some things easier to describe or discuss without having to use as many words...

In fact it is incorrect that they are all pictures... there is plenty of dialogue as well with the pictures in my posts. The pictures merely accompany the dialogue to remind people of particular scenes that I am referencing or to show the trauma and agony Luke Skywalker has lived and how it may explain his behavior, actions in TLJ....

I did get a little carried away with the pictures... They still have a purpose and they are all referenced in my posts...

 

LUKE
Your overconfidence is your weakness.

EMPEROR
Your faith in your friends is yours.

--------------------------

LUCAS: It will be about how young Anakin Skywalker became evil and then was redeemed by his son. But it's also about the transformation of how his son came to find the call and then ultimately realize what it was. Because Luke works intuitively through most of the original trilogy until he gets to the very end. And it's only in the last act--when he throws his sword down and says, "I'm not going to fight this"--that he makes a more conscious, rational decision. And he does it at the risk of his life because the Emperor is going to kill him. It's only that way that he is able to redeem his father. It's not as apparent in the earlier movies, but when you see the next trilogy, then you see the issue is, How do we get Darth Vader back? How do we get him back to that little boy that he was in the first movie, that good person who loved and was generous and kind? Who had a good heart. - Bill Moyers interview

This is the WHOLE POINT of the OT!

 

People who like TLJ say 'Luke is only human', that's fine for me. He has to struggle again after ROTJ, that's fine for me too. BUT there is a big problem with the ST, this trilogy is not about Luke, he is only supporting character. We should have seen the struggle of the new main lead Rey. Instead we got a not really well explained struggling Luke and a not well shown character development of Rey. This shows that they could not decide which route to go or 2 writers/directors with different visions. The result is just a mess sadly.

Communication between JJ, Kasdan and Rian + a lead who coordinates the main vision as in MCU would have been the way to go.