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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Amph Marvel's Falcon & Winter Soldier [Disney+]

Discussion in 'Community' started by Bilbo Fett, May 20, 2019.

Page 37 of 47
  1. Sarge

    Sarge Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Oct 4, 1998
    Anybody know how long the final episode will be? I'd be happy if it ran 2 hours.
     
    Sarge, Apr 17, 2021
    #901
  2. The Regular Mustache

    The Regular Mustache Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2015
    Not wrong and on a side note he’s probably not really dead either right? I won’t be shocked when they bring him back later down the road.
     
    The Regular Mustache, Apr 17, 2021
    #902
  3. DarkGingerJedi

    DarkGingerJedi Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2012
    Yup. Bad Captain America needs his Bad Bucky.
     
    DarkGingerJedi, Apr 17, 2021
    #903
    Juliet316 and The Regular Mustache like this.
  4. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2014
    Lemar always seemed like the better man
     
    Jedi Knight Fett, Apr 17, 2021
    #904
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  5. The Regular Mustache

    The Regular Mustache Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2015
    Also wouldn’t be surprised if Val has something to do with Lamar coming back.
     
    The Regular Mustache, Apr 17, 2021
    #905
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  6. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2014
    No one’s ever really gone
     
    Jedi Knight Fett, Apr 17, 2021
    #906
    TrandoJedi, BigAl6ft6, DarthIntegral and 1 other person like this.
  7. JEDI-RISING

    JEDI-RISING Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 15, 2005
    being a dick and being really bad are two different things. i've seen opinions all over the place on him. a lot of people hated him right off the bat for replacing Steve. i'm on the fence on him, kind of. Wondered yesterday what would have happened if Sam and Bucky had joined up with him too.
     
    JEDI-RISING, Apr 17, 2021
    #907
  8. The Regular Mustache

    The Regular Mustache Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2015
    Sometimes they just disappear for years and let everything go to crap.
     
    The Regular Mustache, Apr 17, 2021
    #908
    Rew likes this.
  9. Jedi Merkurian

    Jedi Merkurian Future Films Rumor Naysayer star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 25, 2000
    Imma have to push back on that. The difference between Walker and Morgenthau is that

    Morgenthau killed someone inadvertently by accidentally using too much force while in the heat of battle. Walker ran down and bashed in the head of (or maybe decapitated) a downed and surrendered person pleading for mercy, while in a fit of rage.
    Nah, fam. Big difference.
     
    Jedi Merkurian , Apr 17, 2021
    #909
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  10. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    I'm far more sceptical that Karli didn't know she was doing a kill strike on Lemar. She isn't new to her powers either.

    As to Walker - he was an arse before, during and after the serum, as he demonstrated by lying to Lemar's parents.

    Screw 'em both, the crapbags deserve each other.
     
    Jedi Ben, Apr 17, 2021
    #910
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  11. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2001
    I mean, she was trying to intentionally assassinate Walker -- by leading him into a trap. Both of them are guilty of war crimes at this point, since theoretically the Flag Smashers are uniformed-combatants... what Walker did was worse, imo, so I agree with you -- but they're both bad.
     
    dp4m, Apr 17, 2021
    #911
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  12. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Walker was a soldier who’d excelled at being a soldier during actual battle.

    Captain America, in spite of the designation, is more than a soldier, and sometimes has objectives that simply don’t align with a soldier’s objectives, and sometimes not even a law enforcement officer’s objectives.

    I’m sure if Walker was given a job of quietly seeking and destroying a hidden ballistic missile base behind enemy lines, he’d excel at it, and his personality flaws wouldn’t be an issue... at least for the duration of the mission, since he clearly needed mental care fro his trauma and stress.

    But Walker was sent to find and apprehend, publicly, an anti-authoritarian group for the sake of maintaining peace and order. He ain’t got those skills, and his superiors and he himself should have known that.

    And there’s a reason you see many soldiers who know they’re not cut out for law enforcement - and heck, there is even at least one case of a Marine who became a law enforcement officer, but was able to evaluate his new peers’ training and policy enough to know they weren’t cut out for the appropriate response to a situation either when a man died (and got fired for it, before winning his wrongful termination lawsuit: Stephen Mader).

    Walker applies the wrong tactics to his objective, and proved incapable of holding himself to those tactics, making him a murderer.

    The real question for him is whether the red and black USAgent identity is his for atonement... or further condemnation.
     
    godisawesome , Apr 17, 2021
    #912
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  13. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2014
    Yea Karli is bad. She blew up those military GRC people just because “violence is the only language they understand” she would murder someone in cold blood if it helped her cause
     
    Jedi Knight Fett, Apr 17, 2021
    #913
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  14. Darth Chiznuk

    Darth Chiznuk Superninja of Future Films star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2012
    I think the issue with Walker is more along the lines of having PTSD than him being a bad person. He clearly has severe trauma over whatever happened with him and Lamar in Afghanistan. He was thrust into this highly stressful situation at likely the worst possible time for him and we see the consequences.
     
    Darth Chiznuk , Apr 17, 2021
    #914
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  15. The Regular Mustache

    The Regular Mustache Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2015
    Sounds like Johnny Walker...on the rocks.
     
    The Regular Mustache, Apr 17, 2021
    #915
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  16. Master_Lok

    Master_Lok Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2012
    You’re right with the big difference.
    What I meant by the exact same thing was, John killed an innocent person too. Not in the way they were killed.

    So while Karli’s murder of Lemar was unintentional, she keeps killing innocent people which defeats her purpose. Karli and John’s judgment is seriously clouded; John and Karli play “god” as much as Zemo does, if not more.

    I think we’re going to continue to see how flawed heroes and villains are in phase four as they play, serve and/or channel ‘gods’ and powers.

    @Darth Chiznuk
    Agreed the severe PTSD is consuming John. And now that he was responsible in getting Lemar killed, I think he’s just going to keep falling.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2021
    Master_Lok, Apr 17, 2021
    #916
    Sarge likes this.
  17. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    And yet, Walker does bear clear singular responsibility for taking the super soldier serum that enabled him to beat a super soldier to death in broad daylight in front of cameras, and while trauma played a part in his downward spiral, he still chose to keep responding violently and dangerously.

    There’s also a question of how exactly he got the Captain America job; it seems unlikely he was simply ordered into it without any candidacy period, evaluation, or offering of a choice. Walker should have been able to take responsibility for his mental state from the trauma he has and already be in therapy of some kind, and if he chose to take the mantle, than he was knowingly taking a high stress and public job he wasn’t ready for.

    ...But at the same time, the US government should have been able to evaluate him well enough to understand his capabilities, weaknesses, and vulnerabilities. They should have had a prerequisite for the suit being that they weren’t going to let anyone with untreated PTSD into it while in action.

    Walker had issues he and his superiors should have been dealing with before he was deployed in the suit. Walker bears responsibility for what he did in the suit, and they bear responsibility for giving it to him.
     
    godisawesome , Apr 17, 2021
    #917
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  18. Master_Lok

    Master_Lok Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2012
    And now I’d like to interrupt this wonderful discussion with some terrific fan art, by comic artist Elizabeth Torque.

    I am sure you can catch the famous Madripoor cameo :p=D=:p

    please click through to see the whole page:

     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2021
    Master_Lok, Apr 17, 2021
    #918
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  19. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Bucky: “Dammit! I can’t brood properly with this klutz damaging by angst aura!”
     
    godisawesome , Apr 17, 2021
    #919
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  20. Fin McCool

    Fin McCool Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 18, 2015
    For a big, dumb comic book show that’s filled with punches and booms, this thing goes a bit more below the surface than expected. I still wish they hadn’t thrown in the obligatory antagonistic buddy cop trope at the beginning, but I’m pleased to see where that relationship has gone.
     
    Fin McCool, Apr 17, 2021
    #920
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  21. Darkslayer

    Darkslayer #2 Sabine Wren Fan star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2013
    Just watched the latest episode. Honestly as someone who was a huge fan of WandaVision (despite there being almost no action) this show has been almost boring to watch, and I really feel like Marvel was working from a position of strength here in terms of basing a show around a character like Winter Soldier and a concept like a legacy superhero. Kind of disappointing.
     
    Darkslayer, Apr 17, 2021
    #921
  22. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2001
    ... so you hate character development? This episode was easily the best of the series so far... :p
     
    dp4m, Apr 17, 2021
    #922
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  23. Darkslayer

    Darkslayer #2 Sabine Wren Fan star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2013
    Not at all, but maybe I just didn't understand what they were going for here? I was honestly really confused while watching the episode. It seemed like they were setting Sam up to refuse the shield when he talked to Carl Lumbly, but then he's back at it later.
     
    Darkslayer, Apr 17, 2021
    #923
  24. DarkGingerJedi

    DarkGingerJedi Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2012
    The last episode had a 10 min opening fight between 3 characters. The rest of the episode sets up the chessboard.
     
    DarkGingerJedi, Apr 17, 2021
    #924
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  25. Master_Lok

    Master_Lok Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2012
    Sam was very conflicted and
    was refusing to take up the shield, but after everything he’s seen and talking to Isaiah, Sam realized Steve was right about him. I think seeing his nephew trace the star on the shield was the final push Sam needed to take up the shield.

    Also, Sam took his own advice to Bucky. To stop looking to others and the past for guidance on what to do.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2021
    Master_Lok, Apr 17, 2021
    #925
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