Marvel's only quasi-canon?

I agree, Darth_Hydra.

 

And to be fair, there are very, very few Marvel continuity contradictions that haven't been explained away.

TC

 

Yeah, it's not the contradictions that are the sticking point for so many people as the absurdity, though that's largely a matter of taste.

 

The previous four posts are very short-sighted, and I have little doubt that the people who wrote them never read the Marvels.

Folks, I don't know if you realize this but apart from the films, the Marvels is the single largest body of work in the Star Wars universe. How come nobody, in the 20 years after, mentions Arbra - though you can find a Hoth reference in every single book? When the reborn Emperor fires the Galaxy Gun, how come no-one remember Iskalon? Where's Kiro, anyway? Where's Dani? Where's the Tofs? What happened to Domina Tagge? Drebble?

And before you mention it - no, I don't think bringing them back after twenty years is a ramification. That only works with Daniel Ortega.

Also, if the Marvels were ridiculous, what is Jedi Academy?

 

Well, Lumiya has come back after all...

 

A little late, huh

 

Yeah, I forgot about the Legacy era novels (I haven't read those yet). Edited accordingly.

 

You forgot E-canon in that list, Katana_Geldar.

 

Super Watto, I don't really understand your point. So, the Marvel comics aren't referenced every other paragraph in the new stuff? I hardly think that's limited to just the Marvel stuff. I don't think they're getting singled out. What about the Droids cartoon and all the characters and planets we saw there? What about Noa from the Ewoks movies? What about Havet Storm? What about Ken? Heck, what about Luuke? What about Lowbacca?

No, I haven't read every single Marvel comic, but I have read some, no thanks to Amazon, and I see where you're coming from, wanting to see Marvel stuff sitting at the kitchen table with Del Ray's stuff and not being hidden away in the attic but, to be fair, there's so much material in Star Wars - period - that everything gets "lost" from time to time or not referenced as much as it "should be" or what have you. The GFFA is HUGE and, if they stopped to make mention of a similar incident every time the heroes came to an obstacle...heck, it'd be 300 pages of recap. If every time I sat in a McDonalds and thought about how this food compared to the other 985 times I sat in a McDonalds...you know what I mean? Devastating encounters, strange beings, galaxy-shattering weapons...that's not these life-changing situations to Luke and Co. That's just a Tuesday.

Think back on your life and how much you've done. I can think back to when I proposed to my wife, which is this HUGE event in my life, but when I think back I realize "Hmph. I almost forgot about that." And that was only 4 and 1/2 years ago! You'd be amazed at the good - and bad - things the mind quickly replaces with current happenings.

 

Oh I thought back on my life alright.

check out the wampa!

HedecGa, I see what you mean, but the things I'm talking about are not things that should be referenced in characters' memories. Rather, each medium (as you say, the Ewoks cartoons as well) contains an exclusive cast. The fact that these character sets don't overlap - or rarely, or too late - makes the main characters - the big 3 - quite the loose cannons. Which doesn't really sit well with the steady character building from the OT. And Marvel, in the end is just an example; but a good one, because it was the first EU.

At the time, it fit well with itself. Then other licensees started pouring out material. There was no oversight. That came much, much later - first making sure everything DH and DR published matched; then, with DR and the republishing of forementioned Marvel and Ewok stuff, matching it with that. Which explains why the transition to DR was smoother.

But that's just it: those early, independantly operating sources, shouldn't be chucked in with the new, better coordinated stuff. What it left us with is a mess. Escaping the Sarlacc four times, get outta here...

 

Check more recent sources. Arbra has been referenced many times, as had Dominia Tagge (in fact, the entire Griff/Tagge blockade of Yavin was spelled out in the Outer Rim SB by WOTC.
Not to mention the Greatest Retcon Ever Made: The "surface" of Bespin...

 

>Yeah, it's not the contradictions that are the sticking point for so many people as the absurdity, though that's largely a matter of taste.<

True; but absurdity is G-level canon.

>How come nobody, in the 20 years after, mentions Arbra - though you can find a Hoth reference in every single book?<

Check out Planet Hoppers, Gamer #1, the New and old Essential Guide to Characters and the New Essential Chronology. Arbra joined the New Republic with Plif as its Senator. It might even appear in the video game Rebel Assault II. Hoth was the site of a major Alliance defeat; the Empire never found Arbra. What about Thila, for that matter?

>And before you mention it - no, I don't think bringing them back after twenty years is a ramification. That only works with Daniel Ortega.<

The great thing about Star Wars is retroactive continuity. After TPM came out, we all wondered why none of the characters *seemed* to have knowledge of prequel events--and then they release Tatooine Ghost and other works that reference the prequels, such as the Empire comics and Survivor's Quest, that are set in-between *what we already knew*. So it doesn't seem so much like they're bringing back references to Marvel after twenty years. For all we know, Luke and Dani could still be in touch; we've just never seen it.

>Devastating encounters, strange beings, galaxy-shattering weapons...that's not these life-changing situations to Luke and Co. That's just a Tuesday.<

Amen.

TC

 

Ah yes, E-Canon. That is canon that is approved by Excellence, is it not?

I was actually surprised that they dug up Lumiya after so long when they could just as easily invented a new character with no history, especially if they wanted her to be believed.

I'm still waiting for Dani, Kiro and Knife to come back, as well as Leia's Zeltron groupies.

 

There's been a lot of Marvel references: Dark Forces Saga, Starhoppers of Aduba, Who Who in the Grand Admirals, History of the Mandalorians, The Emperor's Pawns, KOTOR II, a lot of Ostrander comics.

 

One character I would like to know what happened to is Ven. (was that his name?) The big guy who was half Nagai and half human and Han's mate. Where the sith did he go and is he coming back?

 

Keep in mind that S-canon and N-canon aren't "ranks" below G- and C-. N-canon means "not canon", and only exists to put a place for Star Wars material out of continuity.
The difference between S- and C-canon is that some elements of S-canon may be N-canon. S-canon says that not everything in the story has to be considered "real". C-canon sources (as much as sometimes we hate it) are considered canon through-and-through unless contradicted elsewhere.
Marvel Comics and the GODV are perfect examples of S-canon: instead of throwing out everything because of a few glaring pieces of non-canon (Bespin's jungle-like surface, Stormtrooper helmets reflecting the wearer's emotions, the beautiful world of Kessel) we can salvage the "good bits". In other words, S-canon is a "maybe" until another canonical source refers to it, and then it becomes canon - but doesn't imply that anything else from the original source is canon as well.

 

It's the same between C-Canon and G-Canon. What you say brings back memories of The Canon Wars.

 

When they were planning Legacy of the Force, Lumiya was simply called "The Wizard". They didn't decide to make it Lumiya until well into the planning. They were reluctant to, as well, as they didn't want to reuse characters in such a large Universe. Here's a quote from Pablo Hidalgo's blog, when he did a Comic-Con report this past July:

I think that Taloncard did an excellent job of refuting SuperWatto --- The great thing about Star Wars is retroactive continuity. After TPM came out, we all wondered why none of the characters *seemed* to have knowledge of prequel events--and then they release Tatooine Ghost and other works that reference the prequels, such as the Empire comics and Survivor's Quest, that are set in-between *what we already knew*. So it doesn't seem so much like they're bringing back references to Marvel after twenty years. --- and Sue Rostoni pointing out that it's a huge galaxy backs that up considerably. Why would Arbra appear again, after all? There are plenty of planets from the OT characters' past that they don't bring up. And there aren't in-Universe reasons why Hoth and Tatooine always pop up --- the reasons are all out-of-Universe, such as appealing to fans of the classic trilogy, and Kevin J. Anderson having no originality.

For all we know, Luke and Dani could still be in touch; we've just never seen it.

Exactly. We didn't find out that Luke kept in contact with Malinza Thanas until Balance Point.

SuperWatto, the Marvels aren't the only large body of work that have forgotten characters. The Bantams are rich with them. Why wasn't Cole Fardreamer an established mechanic in The New Jedi Order? What happend to Ben-Kihl-Nahm, a close personal friend to Leia? The list definitely goes on.

But that's just it: those early, independantly operating sources, shouldn't be chucked in with the new, better coordinated stuff. What it left us with is a mess. Escaping the Sarlacc four times, get outta here...

I'll admit, a Boba Fett imposter would have been a better explanation than Fett escaping the Sarlacc twice. But when 90% of the marvel era doesn't interfere with the newer, better-coordinated stuff, why let that 10% ruin it for everyone?

 

"We know it's a huge galaxy, so we don't want to make it too small by recycling characters," said Rostoni.



Hence why they have Alema come back from the dead, bring back "Nashtah" from the depths of the PT, nod to half of Wraith Squadron, and include all the stupid references to Republic Commando characters?

 

I'm fairly certain they wouldn't have bothered rereleasing it if it wasn't going to become canon.

 

Bey, isn't it? From my understanding, he's the one big bit of marvel continuity that hasn't gotten much of a nod anywhere else.

 

He's referenced in The Dark Forces Saga about being in Kyle Katarn, Jan Ors, Dash Rendar, and Guri's team that infiltrated the Nagai fortress planets.

 

Those are the choices of the individual authors, whereas Lumiya was from the entire creative team. I agree with you, but I thought I'd point that out.

 

Jeff - I know it's not the only body of work to have been neglected, but this is a Marvel thread, right. Your statement actually jives with my stance.

BobaMatt - I think you're thinking the wrong way round - they were going to rerelease it, and it had a better chance of selling if made canon.

blackmyron - Essential Guides and WOTC stuff is precisely the stuff that fails to interest me. Especially the Essential Guides - 'the entire book is one big retcon!' If all the novels and comics, as a whole, fail to tell a logical tale, a guide is not going to change that.

 

But if the editor was serious about what she said, then they would have told the authors not to do that. Just another example about LFL's increasingly lax attitude.