Matrix: Reloaded, Revolutions and Animatrix (WARNING: Revolutions Spoilers)

Sorry folks. I do apologize. I just got too excited about it and forgot that only Reloaded is allowed spoilers

Too late to edit it as a link-only...

 

Can we get a banning for table 5?

 

I'm not sure if I want to be spoiled for Revolutions or not. I wasn't spoiled for Reloaded and even though it took me a little while to think everything out, I did enjoy the challenge of figuring out the puzzle on my own.

 

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I still don't get the whole "6th generation of the Matrix" thing. It's just too confusing. Do the machines redesign the Matrix every time there is an anomaly, aka "The One"?
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It may also have to do with the fact that it can't be 1999 forever. If they restart it they could do the human's whole evolution until the next 1999 roles around thousands of years later. Going past 1999 could be dangerous as human may react the same then you'd have a matrix in a matrix in a matrix.


I just though of a surreal way to end Revolutions would be to have the Smiths kill Neo. Then end with a shot a threater filled with the Smiths, as Smith #1 points to the screen (towards us movie goers) and go "Only Human!" as the rest start busting out laughing.

 

I made this for those of you who didn't understand a damned thing the Architect said. Feel free to print and distribute as a reference.

The Architect Vocabulary Guide:

irrevocably
Impossible to retract

Concordantly
Harmonious; agreeing

pertinent
Having logical precise relevance to the matter at hand.

inexorable
Not capable of being persuaded by entreaty; relentless: an inexorable opponent; a feeling of inexorable doom.

fluctuation
To vary irregularly

sublime
Characterized by nobility; majestic/Of high spiritual, moral, or intellectual worth.

inherent
Existing as an essential constituent or characteristic; intrinsic.

grotesqueries
Things which are bizarre and/or strange

parameters
One of a set of measurable factors, such as temperature and pressure, that define a system and determine its behavior and are varied in an experiment.

intuitive
instinctive

psyche
The spirit or soul.

contradictory
inconsistent

systemic
Relating to or affecting the entire body/system: systemic symptoms; a systemic poison.

anomaly
Deviation or departure from the normal or common order, form, or rule.

Ergo
Consequently; therefore.

eradicated
To get rid of as if by tearing up by the roots: Their goal was to eradicate poverty.

dissemination
The act of disseminating, or the state of being disseminated; diffusion for propagation and permanence; a scattering or spreading abroad, as of ideas, beliefs, etc.

cataclysmic
A violent upheaval that causes great destruction or brings about a fundamental change.

predication
The act of predicating, or of affirming one thing of another; affirmation; assertion.
contingent

profound
Penetrating beyond what is superficial or obvious: a profound insight.

facilitating
To make easy or less difficult; to free from difficulty or impediment; to lessen the labor of; as, to facilitate the execution of a task.

Vis-a-vis
Face to face with; opposite to.

Apropos
At an appropriate time; opportunely.
fundamental/suitably

precursor
One that precedes and indicates, suggests, or announces someone or something to come: Colonial opposition to unfair taxation by the British was a precursor of the Revolution.

quintessential
Best/definitive

simultaneously
Existing, happening, or done, at the same time

 

Thx, for the dictionary.


Did anyone understand the Architects words, as in "Neo and "the real world" is also a Mtarix program running", maybe from a used program cycle or whatever. He said it was the sixth time they dug down to Zion.

It's programs within programs within programs.




DD - Love Spliff

 

i don't think Zion is inside the Matrix.
I think that Neo picked up powers from Smith as Smith did from neo.
Remember the dreams Neo had?

 

The idea that is also illustrated in the beginning, is that it could be the Matrix within the Matrix within the Matrix etc.

I think one of the things perhaps is that man and machine will live in harmony together.

How will the people in Zion feed all the people that will get freed if the Matrix is terminated?




DD - Love Spliff

 

Dane, good points. I often wondered how exactly the story will end. With most stories you can guess what happens. During the OT you could guess that the story eventually would end with the destruction of the Empire and the death of the Emperor and Darth Vader. With LOTR you can guess that the story would end with Sauron's defeat and the destruction of the ring. You might not yet know the details but you can usually tell what must happen. Not so with The Matrix. This story could really go anywhere. The destruction of the Matrix might seem like an obvious conclusion but that would kill billions of people. So what's going to happen?

 

But then how would the One ever discover himself? Now that the One has been discovered, all he has to do is release his code to the source to reset the Matrix. That flaw in the system is why the machines need Zion to exist, at least until they empower the One. Once he does, they'll destroy Zion. Rinse and repeat.

But Neo blew it. He didn't release his code. Now the machines need to destroy Zion before the free people figure out how to destroy the machines and the Matrix for good.

Okay. Why does the Matrix need to have The One help start the cycle again? Does the code of The One cause the next iteration to have an improved version of Matrix for the next go-around? Like a Matrix 6.0? And Zion exists (i.e. people are 'allowed' to unplug from the Matrix, provided they survive the Agents) so that an outside force can find The One, and eventually encourage him to get to the Source (and unbeknownst to them, 'rinse and repeat')? Seems like a risky proposition for the machines. If I were the Architect I'd 'live' with the 1% imperfection and just kill them off. Still, Colonel Sanders seemed pretty pleased with himself that his first Matrix was "perfect". This imperfection that had to be introduced must drive him crazy.

Also, if the Zionists' purpose for being is to find The One, what was the Oracle doing with the potential One's in her apartment? Doing her part to try to find The One? She did predict that Morpheus was going to be the one to find him. Another puzzling scene involving the Oracle.

 

Also, how could humans rebuild Zion, and five times none the less!?

Did the machines just cripple Zion enough for peace for a while?

How could humans, if Zion was Gone, survive teh trip from his cocoon, rollercoasting, down in water. Who would survive this, without a ship like Nebuchadnezzar to pick them up?

Maybe the architect was trying to fool Neo?




DD - Love Spliff

 

Okay I'm coming in a bit late but the Matrix Reloaded only opened in the UK yesterday, in response to the last post the Architect told Neo he would have to choose 23 (i think) humans to repopulate Zion, which I assume would mean the machines would leave some equipmnet and the capability to rebuild. Hell in Revolutions we may even find out the machines run Zion in a remote sort of way, after all the Architect did say that the human beings greatest strength/emotion is hope, so perhaps by having a group outside but acting within the Matrix, somehow subconsciously filters through the Matrix to create a feeling of hope for everyone else to carying on existing. I'm not sure if that was a statement a question or a ramble!!??!!

 

Okay I'm coming in a bit late but the Matrix Reloaded only opened in the UK yesterday, in response to the last post the Architect told Neo he would have to choose 23 (i think) humans to repopulate Zion, which I assume would mean the machines would leave some equipmnet and the capability to rebuild.

Hmm, yes of course well spotted, that could make sense.

Hell in Revolutions we may even find out the machines run Zion in a remote sort of way, after all the Architect did say that the human beings greatest strength/emotion is hope, so perhaps by having a group outside but acting within the Matrix, somehow subconsciously filters through the Matrix to create a feeling of hope for everyone else to carying on existing. I'm not sure if that was a statement a question or a ramble!!??!!

Hmm, that actually sounds credible, keeping in mind that any change in any physical body affects all other physcial bodies.





DD - Love Spliff

 

Phelps -- The inherrent flaws introduced in the "imperfect" version of the Matrix cause the system to become unstable over time. I would guess that the random generation of code introduced to represent new 'births' into the Matrix eventually results in the empowerment of The One, who by virtue of having unique powers within the Matrix also holds the code required to stabilize and reset the Matrix.

It's that 1% imperfection that causes the instability. If the machines simply killed off those who reject the Matrix, the system would spiral toward a crash, leaving humanity extinct and the machines without a viable source of power.

As for the Oracle's motivations, that's anyone's guess at this point. She may have only been studying the other potentials in an effort to gain insight into how to resolve the problem once and for all. She may have done that on behalf of the machines, or she may have done that to accomodate her inherrent intuitive and inquisitive programming. I hope we get some clarity on the origins of the Oracle in Revolutions.

Dane -- When Zion is destroyed, The One has the endorsement of the machines to begin Zion anew. So I would guess that in the absence of them fancy-pants hovercraft, the machines would support the release of the 23 new Zionists.

Beyond that, it's possible that the machines even give struggling humanity some technology to get them started. Notice that our heroes all seem to be hackers? I'm sure that plays a role somewhere along the way, perhaps enabling the Zionists to have a head start on developing the tech necessary to pull people from the Matrix. I think there's a payoff down the line for all these people being hackers, and it's more than just their ability to get in and out of the Matrix.

Now, how do the machines deal with ensuring that the Zionists know to look for The One? People's experiences inside the Matrix are transferred to their Real World bodies. The machines simply have to lie to the new Zionists inside the Matrix, effectively programming or re-programming their minds on the outside with certain memories. The machines can set humanity in motion in the direction the machines ultimately want them to go. So, as is suggested in Reloaded, even for the "free" humans, Freedom is only an illusion.

Of course, everything above is conjecture, and the illusion is all the more insidious if the Real World really is just another level of the Matrix.

AYBABTU?

 

as with russelguppy i have the 'handicap' of being British so i haven't enough time to properly arrange my thoughts, but oh well

i think that we may even find out that the council of Zion is in league with the machines to ensure that everything goes smoothly in locating The One so humanity's future is secure. The councilor (when talking to Neo on the engineering level) keep saying how we need machines to live etc and how basically all the council members are old and just going through the motions of life almost pointlessly. generations of Zionists could pass down knowledge through the council (that only the council is aware of) of the true destiny of the human race to simply repeat it's futile attempt for freedom so the machines can maintain their power source

the Architect said the machines are will to accept a lower form of life if the human race is extinct, i don't know how they would maintain any life and on what level

In the Second Renaissance Part II when we scorch the sky, how do the machines keep functioning long enough to win the war and build the Matrix?

How come Merovingian can survive in the Matrix and keep aspects from past incarnations of it in the current version? where does he come from? could he merely be a tool of the architect in order to maintain and partially authenticate the lie of the multiple matrix versions. if the architect is trying to fool Neo out of his fate then he would have to construct proof, having an enigma like this guy who constantly refers to Neo's predecessors would help

I think that Smith may be the deciding factor in Revolutions, he now desires power and more fundamentally existence beyond anything else and if the matrix is destroyed or reset then he will be deleted, therefore he may end up the unlikely saviour

sorry for all the incoherent thoughts and half-questions, i just needed an outlet for them. i'll probably post more indepth and coherent ideas once i've properly figured out my opinion on Reloaded

 

It's that 1% imperfection that causes the instability. If the machines simply killed off those who reject the Matrix, the system would spiral toward a crash, leaving humanity extinct and the machines without a viable source of power.

A very plausible argument. I need to digest this a bit more.

I thought rather that the 1% that reject the Matrix was a result of the imperfection in the Matrix code, and so killing off those who began to exhibit signs of rejection would have no effect, since the imperfect code would simply result in a continuation of a 1% population being born into the system who would have this uneasy feeling. Still, I hadn't thought of the system crash. The Architect told Neo that going back into the Matrix would result in a system crash, but I didn't glean why.

You're saying that the imperfection that allows the greatest number of persons to accept this fabricated reality also results in a system crash when the unavoidable result of The One emerges, and fails to 'reset' the system code. Thus, if the Matrix killed off everyone who existed in the 1%, then The One would be unable to perform his task.




Now, what then is the role of the Agents? They are the muscle of the Matrix, but they seem to act against what is necessary for the Matrix to survive.

 

"Now, what then is the role of the Agents? They are the muscle of the Matrix, but they seem to act against what is necessary for the Matrix to survive."

As more people are disconnected from the Matrix, the chance that the "loose" humans might defeat the machines increases. Take a look at this excerpt from the Architect sequence:

As I was saying, she stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly 99.9% of all test subjects accepted the program, as long as they were given a choice, even if they were only aware of the choice at a near unconscious level. While this answer functioned, it was obviously fundamentally flawed, thus creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly, that if left unchecked might threaten the system itself. Ergo, those that refused the program, while a minority, if unchecked, would constitute an escalating probability of disaster.

That's why Zion is ultimately destroyed. It's also the reason for the existence and persistence of the Agent programs. The machines don't want all sorts of "free" humans just running willy-nilly all over the Matrix causing trouble. The more they are capable of freeing, the more likely the humans will defeat the machines. So the machines regulate the process through the use of the Agents.

So.. why would the Agents try to kill Neo, if he was The One? Maybe the machines don't know who The One is until he ultimately uses his powers. If the Agents had managed to really kill him then he must not really be The One. The process of finding The One and resetting the system goes on unchecked. Since Neo is The One, he manages to survive anyway, and the machines must know this.

So why do the Agents attack him in Reloaded? Good question...

AYBABTU?

 

not necessarily. Without Agents there would be no challenge for the 1% or The One to improve their skills and for The One to bend the rules of The Matrix so that it can rebuild itself.

Simply put - without Agent Smith Neo would still be doing cartwheels.

 

because pratically everything in the Matrix appears pre-ordained then i'd say the Agents are a test and a filter. the remove all of the people that slipped through into reality and are 'surplus to destiny' they have no purpose so can be killed. the agents don't know who these people are because it isn't necessary for them to so they attack any anomaly. this also serves as a test for the one's powers and readiness

 

So.. why would the Agents try to kill Neo, if he was The One? Maybe the machines don't know who The One is until he ultimately uses his powers. If the Agents had managed to really kill him then he must not really be The One. The process of finding The One and resetting the system goes on unchecked. Since Neo is The One, he manages to survive anyway, and the machines must know this.

So why do the Agents attack him in Reloaded? Good question...

I think you answered your own question. The Architect knows that The One will survive and reach him.


Well, as long as the Agents don't kill The One before he realizes his potential. If the Agent in the original Matrix had killed Neo with the gun rather than grazing his thigh then there would indeed be a problem.

 

I think that everything has happened is a process that neo has gone thru. Growing in his abilities and everytime the matrix upgrades he is ready...

I want to now why persephone applied libstick and kissed neo, and the camera help that shot of her lips...

 

If there are no choices, did that mean Neo was always going to choose Trinity over the Matrix? If so is this why certain Programs are hell bent on killing Neo? Yet at the beginning of Reloaded the three agents seem hesitant to take on Neo, even with their upgrades.

 

If the agents who are attacking Neo could kill him that would be a good thing, because then he would not be the One.
It is all ordained in advance.
The real question is, now that he chose Trinity instead of reloading the Matrix, what affect will it have on the Machines?

 

It all comes down to choice. Do we have any choice about our lives?

 

one thing that I haven't seen discussed - does nobody find it interesting that the previous 5 "Ones" looked and dressed exactly like Neo? Why's that? Could this be a hint that Neo is indeed a program?

 

Since the machines can control and implant on the one, why would that be so hard. We can duplicate sheep, I am sure they can duplicate humans.
The key to this whole story is Agent Smith, and what he will do in the next movie.
Also the thoughts on the Zion council being in cahots with the Machines is beyond great, well thoguht out!