Matrix: Reloaded, Revolutions and Animatrix (WARNING: Revolutions Spoilers)

-How Neo gets in and out of Mobil Ave.

Watch the movie. It's pretty self-explanatory.

Help me out here Pooja. It wasn't that "self explanatory." How did he get in and out of that place without jacking in or out of anything?

How Neo stopped the Sentinels.

Neo tapped into the source, as explained by the Oracle.

No, the Oracle simply states "The powers of the one transcend the Matrix." That's it. Cop out of an explanation if you ask me.

-Exactly what happened when Smith copied himself onto Neo.

Smith is Neo's opposite, his negative. A negative cannot exist without a positive. When Smith copied himself into Neo, the positive, there was no positive anymore, therefore Smith couldn't exist, which wiped him out.

Nice theory for the last one. Definateley not something explained in the movie. You had to guess and theorize to get to that point. Thus my point: the film doesn't answer this question.

 

Smith is Neo's opposite, his negative. A negative cannot exist without a positive. When Smith copied himself into Neo, the positive, there was no positive anymore, therefore Smith couldn't exist, which wiped him out.

I would say as F_T said (I think) that Neo was tapped into the mainframe, which is where any program goes to for deletion. Smith wins, Neo dies, then Deus Ex deletes teh rogue program.

 

Help me out here Pooja. It wasn't that "self explanatory." How did he get in and out of that place without jacking in or out of anything?

The Oracle said that when Neo tapped into the source when he stopped the sentinels, it should have killed him, but instead it sent him into limbo, between the Matrix and the real world. The Merovingian basically captured Neo since they took the Keymaker from him in Reloaded, and Trinity, Morpheus, and Seraph went to the Merovingian to get Neo out.

No, the Oracle simply states "The powers of the one transcend the Matrix." That's it. Cop out of an explanation if you ask me.

Then you must have not been paying attention, because she does indeed say that.

Nice theory for the last one. Definateley not something explained in the movie. You had to guess and theorize to get to that point. Thus my point, the film doesn't answer this question.

Once again: The Oracle states that Smith is Neo's negative. If you know ANYTHING about Algebra, you know a negative cannot exist without a positive. It's not a theory, it's fact.

 

I wouldn't go as far as saying that people who didn't like Revolutions (or Matrix films in general) didn't understand it. But there's some truth in it. I would say that people who don't like the Matrix "don't get it", not in the sense that they are stupid morons but that they simply misunderstand them.
As I mentioned in an earlier post - imagine somebody tells you he doesn't like Star Wars because the dialogue or the acting are bad. That's certainly an opinion to have and you will probably respect that opinion. But imagine somebody said "I hate Star wars because it has spaceships and spaceships are impossible. It also features Chewbacca, a character that does not exist. And the Force is pure Fantasy, something like the Force does not exist in real life". What would you reply? you would probably say that the person just doesn't get it. Other examples would be "LOTR is crap because rings can't make you invisible" or "Toy Story is crap because toys can't talk and don't have any muscles that would allow them to move". Anybody who utters opinions like this would have totally and utterly failed to see the point in these stories. Yes, they might have UNDERSTOOD the stories intellectually but they didn't get the point of them. And that is exactly the case in relation to all those Matrix haters. Many of them might understand the plot (not all of them though) but they don't get the point of these films by picking "flaws" like "Zion looks awful", "Morpheus is too fat", "slow motion is stupid", "Bullet time was used in GAP ads" or "how can machines feel emotions". Well, how can a jedi read minds? How can a ring turn you invisible? How can Superman fly?
Is it the cynical attitude that people are getting? I saw a programme last night on TV where children (8-10 years old) had to review Christmas plays and the little smartass guy who reviewed Hansel and Gretel simply said "That story is, like, so stupid. Who would build a house out of gingerbread? What purpose could that possibly serve?"

 

It could be that both levels, two layers, most likely more, is there as an interpretation. The W's are saying many many things on many different levels. It is not either or, but both and.

I definitely agree that there are many meanings behind each scene of their movies, all on philosophical, religious, deferential, and mythic levels. I was just speaking generally and giving my interpretation of the direct plot/storyline.

The way I see it, questions are important to the films. I have no problem with a film that leaves you open to questions about philosophy, religion, purpose, reality, etc.

I'd definitely agree. Reloaded leaves of with a great deal of that to contemplate. I'll see if I can help you out with what's troubling you.

-How Neo gets in and out of Mobil Ave
As trivial as it is, I'm really not sure about how neo physically gets in to that environment. I'm guessing that after touching the source, his virtual code was rejected from the matrix instead of it being destroyed. As far as getting out, it's as simple as hopping on the next train out of town, or into the Matrix for that matter, and Revs clearly points out how Trinity got the trainman to cooperate.

-How Neo stopped the Sentinels
This goes back to Reloaded, or even Matrix part 1. We know that once Neo "destroyed" Smith, bits of Smith's code was copied on to Neo and vice versa. From this, he is able to tap into the machine's controls as the Oracle and Pooja have pointed out.

-Exactly what happened when Smith copied himself onto Neo
As I have pointed out before, bits of code was exchanged/copied over other Neo/Smith coding. Not only was the rest of Neo's code recovered (which is essential for resetting the Matrix), but all of Smith's code was obtained thus the machines/programs being able to destroy all the Smith coding.

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I see Pooja's much faster than I am

 

I see Pooja's much faster than I am

Don't worry about it. They need our help. They need all our help.

 

Help me out here Pooja. It wasn't that "self explanatory." How did he get in and out of that place without jacking in or out of anything?

The Oracle said that when Neo tapped into the source when he stopped the sentinels, it should have killed him, but instead it sent him into limbo, between the Matrix and the real world. The Merovingian basically captured Neo since they took the Keymaker from him in Reloaded, and Trinity, Morpheus, and Seraph went to the Merovingian to get Neo out.

Okay, that makes it a little more clear, but still doesn't take care of everything. How did he tap the source of the Matrix in the Real World without being plugged into anything?

No, the Oracle simply states "The powers of the one transcend the Matrix." That's it. Cop out of an explanation if you ask me.

Then you must have not been paying attention, because she does indeed say that.

Wrongo. I was on the edge of my seat trying to analyze every last line in that scene looking for answers. But, for the sake of argument, let's go ahead and agree that she specifically states it's because he touched the source, which brings us back to my question above: How? How did he tap the source from nothingness in the real world?

Nice theory for the last one. Definateley not something explained in the movie. You had to guess and theorize to get to that point. Thus my point, the film doesn't answer this question.

Once again: The Oracle states that Smith is Neo's negative. If you know ANYTHING about Algebra, you know a negative cannot exist without a positive. It's not a theory, it's fact.

You're completely and utterly missing my point here Pooja. I completely understand what you're saying. It just goes around the initial point I was making about it. The movie explains nothing about this. What you have stated is your theory on what happened based on your mathmatical knowledge. Whether you're willing to admit it or not, the film does not answer this question (that anyone has been able to show me thus far, that is). Your answer is a hypothesis based on what is presented, nothing more. It's a great hypothesis, but a hypothesis none-the-less.

 

Wrongo. I was on the edge of my seat trying to analyze every last line in that scene looking for answers. But, for the sake of argument, let's go ahead and agree that she specifically states it's because he touched the source, which brings us back to my question above: How? How did he tap the source from nothingness in the real world?

Then why are others also pointing out that she says it? And don't forget: the machines GROW the humans. There are obviously levels of control that the machines have implanted into the grown humans; it's called contingency.

You're completely and utterly missing my point here Pooja. I completely understand what you're saying. It just goes around the initial point I was making about it. The movie explains nothing about this. What you have stated is your theory on what happened based on your mathmatical knowledge. Whether you're willing to admit it or not, the film does not answer this question (that anyone has been able to show me thus far, that is). Your answer is a hypothesis based on what is presented, nothing more. It's a great hypothesis, but a hypothesis none-the-less.

Implication is a fantastic word that you should really get to know.

 

Wow Pooja, you're such a great person!

Wrongo = you're wrong, I was paying attention. And like I said, regardless of that, i'm willing to concede that anyway, taking the chance that I missed it. So, care to answer my question about it anyway? How did Neo touch the source without being jacked in?

Second of all, why are you so damn cynical about this? I'm not trying to give you a hard time. I want the answers and you seem to be of the opinion that you have them. Help me out here. Don't try to implicate (ooohhhh I do know what the word means) that I was too stupid to figure it out. Quite frankly, you still miss my point. Which is that I didn't like it because what happened there is not clear cut and explained. I'm right about that, and you haven't disproven it. In fact, you kind of support it with your "implication" remark. To be explained, there would have to be dialogue in the movie about how the positive can't exist without a negative. Is there such a line?

Third, are you scared to answer my questions? Do you get off on making little one line quips? My question is valid. Why not simply answer? You won't talk me into liking this movie more, just like I won't be able to talk you into liking it less. So seriously, what's the big deal? Don't pander to me like i'm some child that can't understand. Help me instead.

How did Neo tap the source from the real world without being plugged into the Matrix?

If you want to help me out and answer my questions, that's awesome and thank you. I've only got one left afterall. If you just want to make another quip about how "obvious this should be", then nevermind. Thanks for wasting my time.

 

ETA: pffft.

 

Okay, that makes it a little more clear, but still doesn't take care of everything. How did he tap the source of the Matrix in the Real World without being plugged into anything?

Does it really matter that much? Like Star Wars, this is a fantasy movie. This sounds like the equivalent to debating medichlorians. All that matters is we know he has that connection. If that still isn't enough and you really need an explaination, I'll share my interpretaion with you.>>>> Everyone that has been plugged into the Matrix has electronics plugged into their neural system. These electronics not only recieve binary/electronic signals, but are capable of transmitting as well. With Neo having special abilities withing the Matrix, his brain is more on the complex side especially since there's parts of Smith implanted in his brain. This must be how he knows how to communicate/command the machines.

You're completely and utterly missing my point here Pooja. I completely understand what you're saying. It just goes around the initial point I was making about it. The movie explains nothing about this. What you have stated is your theory on what happened based on your mathmatical knowledge. Whether you're willing to admit it or not, the film does not answer this question (that anyone has been able to show me thus far, that is). Your answer is a hypothesis based on what is presented, nothing more. It's a great hypothesis, but a hypothesis none-the-less.

It's all been explained, just not spelled out. I've pointed out earlier that the Matrix franchise is not a "take you by the hand and spoon feed you experience". Those willing to put some thought into what is going on in the movie and contemplate more than what we are used/conditioned to, are the ones ultimately rewarded. That is the point of the movie as an experience - to figure it out for yourself based on what is being presented to you. Granted, we didn't write the script nor do we claim that our interpretations are ultimately correct. Based on the collective discussion that has been going on since 11/5, we have all come to a general understanding of what's going on. Perhaps we're all wrong, and maybe Jar Jar is the chosen one.

 

Consciousness seems to be the answer urgent_jedi_picnic.

As some have pointed out, perhaps Neo didn't die, onnly Neo could see the light from the machine city, and after his body dies, we get a shot of the machine pulling Neo, in it's light form. Since only Neo could see Light, maybe Neo isn't dead, because Consciousness transcends the flesh?

 

Neo was the only human that could see the way he did. Perhaps it was a machine's perspective that we were seeing. That would make sense considering all the machines around Neo and that we weren't looking from Neo's perspective.

 

It's all been explained, just not spelled out. I've pointed out earlier that the Matrix franchise is not a "take you by the hand and spoon feed you experience". Those willing to put some thought into what is going on in the movie and contemplate more than what we are used/conditioned to, are the ones ultimately rewarded. That is the point of the movie as an experience - to figure it out for yourself based on what is being presented to you. Granted, we didn't write the script nor do we claim that our interpretations are ultimately correct. Based on the collective discussion that has been going on since 11/5, we have all come to a general understanding of what's going on. Perhaps we're all wrong, and maybe Jar Jar is the chosen one.



What if Jar Jar is the chosen one? Kidding.

That's an interesting idea about the hard-wiring left over in Neo's body from the Matrix. None-the-less, I find this as one leap to big for me. The big questions for me from Reloaded were "how did neo stop the squids" and "what is the exact connection/nature between Neo & Smith." I wanted specific answers. I didn't get them. I'm not saying that this is wrong or bad. It's just not my preference. In an action/adventure/sci-fi trilogy, I expect more explanation from the third chapter for the unanswered questions, that's all. Personal preference issue, neither right nor wrong.

 

jedi picnic, yes, these things are not 100% conclusively answered but that's the nature of these films. They give you enough room to explain it yourself but they don't state it explicitly. It's like the ending of Psycho. The doctor explains in exact detail what went on in Norman Bates' mind and that is a mistake on Hitchock's part (although possibly required in 1960 as people weren't as familiar with psychology as they are today). For me the explanation by the doctor destroys the mysticism of the character just like many SW fans felt that midichlorians destroyed the mysticism of the force (I don't want to start another discussion here, i merely mention it as an example)
Part of the attraction of the Matrix films is that they keep a certain level of mysticism as a result of the ambiguity. If you like this you're in heaven. If you don't then the films are not for you. It's like a David Lynch movie. If Lynch had explicitly stated in Mulholland Drive that Naomi Watts had her girlfriend killed and imagines an alternative reality moments before she died then the film would have lost all of its fun and would have made a great pschological dream story into a mundane TV crime saga.

For me Revolutions is the Matrix film that no longer works on a superficial level like the first two. The first two films can be understood even if you're not interested in philosophy or religious allegory. The third one no longer makes sense on that level but only on an allegorical level. Neo reaches enlightenment, he reaches Nirvana which according to Buddhist beliefs can only be reached by breaking the ever repeating loop of your life (the repeating story of the One reaching the Source) by separating your mind from your body (which is what Neo does)and go from limbo (the trainstation and its loop train) to Nirvana (the body of light Neo becomes in the machine city)

 

For me Revolutions is the Matrix film that no longer works on a superficial level like the first two. The first two films can be understood even if you're not interested in philosophy or religious allegory. The third one no longer makes sense on that level but only on an allegorical level.

I could definately see that. It explains some of my disappointment, as the first two films are very much action/adventure films. I just don't understand why these are the questions they chose to leave unanswered, that's all. They're plot points, afterall. I was hoping to come out of Revolutions questioning the nature of reality, purpose, and religion. I came out questioning the plot itself. While I enjoyed that aspect of Reloaded and the plot questions it left, I liked it because I knew there was another chapter coming. This time, no new chapter coming.

Even all that aside, I absolutely loved the Machine vs. Zion stuff. The scale of it was amazing. It became so obvious that the humans were doomed unless Neo could help them. The struggle they were going through definately struck a chord with me. I even got slight goose bumps at the end when the Kid yells to the people that the war is over.

 

I'd have to agree. My favorite part of the movie was the Zion battle. Mechs are always good.

 

Wrongo = you're wrong, I was paying attention. And like I said, regardless of that, i'm willing to concede that anyway, taking the chance that I missed it. So, care to answer my question about it anyway? How did Neo touch the source without being jacked in? Second of all, why are you so damn cynical about this? I'm not trying to give you a hard time. I want the answers and you seem to be of the opinion that you have them. Help me out here. Don't try to implicate (ooohhhh I do know what the word means) that I was too stupid to figure it out. Quite frankly, you still miss my point. Which is that I didn't like it because what happened there is not clear cut and explained. I'm right about that, and you haven't disproven it. In fact, you kind of support it with your "implication" remark. To be explained, there would have to be dialogue in the movie about how the positive can't exist without a negative. Is there such a line? Third, are you scared to answer my questions? Do you get off on making little one line quips? My question is valid. Why not simply answer? You won't talk me into liking this movie more, just like I won't be able to talk you into liking it less. So seriously, what's the big deal? Don't pander to me like i'm some child that can't understand. Help me instead. How did Neo tap the source from the real world without being plugged into the Matrix?

This question can only be answered one way: with an open mind. If you do not have an open mind, you will not buy it and continue to be upset that the Wachowski's didn't hold your hand throughout the story. The machines grew the humans. That's fact. The machines do whatever they want to with the humans to keep things in control, just like the Matrix itself. You must remember that this is science fiction that takes place in the future, so again, it takes an open mind. The Oracle said that Neo tapped into the Source, or the machine mainframe. This means that Neo is able to control what he can or cannot do. The Oracle said that when Neo reaches the Source, where the Architect was, that the war would end. This is partially correct. By reaching the mainframe, or the Source, Neo is able to tap into his powers more. It's simply an ability the machines gave Thomas Anderson, aka Neo, when they grew/created him, whatever. The way I see it, Neo is a huge contingency plan the machines devised in case something went wrong... like Agent Smith. This is why Neo can only sense the sentinels AFTER the Architect scene; he's now able to harness his powers. For you see, the humans that the machines grow aren't just pure human. It's all about control. The machines will give their grown humans the appropriate abilities in order to keep everything in control, and in Neo's case, that would be the ability to tap into the source.

Of course, people will agree or disagree with this. You're right, it isn't explained in the movie. However, does this mean there aren't enough clues to arrive at your own opinion? Not at all, and that's the great thing about it. I'm sorry you have to require so much from something that should have every right to be left open, but whatever, that's your decision.

If you want to help me out and answer my questions, that's awesome and thank you. I've only got one left afterall. If you just want to make another quip about how "obvious this should be", then nevermind. Thanks for wasting my time.

If you don't like movies that require SOME thought, you don't need to be giving a crap about the Matrix films.

Even all that aside, I absolutely loved the Machine vs. Zion stuff. The scale of it was amazing. It became so obvious that the humans were doomed unless Neo could help them. The struggle they were going through definately struck a chord with me. I even got slight goose bumps at the end when the Kid yells to the people that the war is over.

It was good stuff, to be sure. One of the biggest complaints people have with the sequel is that they didn't really become something life-changing or whatever. It's also called hype. But anyway, I absolu

 

yes, those were great scenes. I especially liked the way Zee and the Kid became great charcters in this one. After watching Reloaded I couldn't see much point in their inclusion. I liked the way the Zion machines are modern yet have a certain "old-fashioned" feel about them, like the awkward way the APU's needed to be reloaded.

on another note - has anybody ever read the excellent book "The Matrix and Philosophy" by William gibson? In it several philosophers analyse different aspects of the film. It gives many interesting viewpoints and not all of the philosophers like the film. It was published 2 years ago so before anybody knew anything about the plot of the sequels. Anyway, in one of the chapters a Buddhist scholar argues that Neo's powers should really transcend the Matrix and reach into the real world, otherwise there would be no point in him being "The one" that reaches enlightenment. The scholar argues that since your mind convinces you that the Matrix is real and Neo has learned to overcome his mind this process should also work in the real world. He also mentions that seperating his mind from his body is what Neo must eventually do. It's interesting since the scholar almost lays out the entire Neo plot of Matrix Revolutions tow years before the film came out.
Maybe the Wachowskis stole the idea from him?

 

This question can only be answered one way: with an open mind. If you do not have an open mind, you will not buy it and continue to be upset that the Wachowski's didn't hold your hand throughout the story. The machines grew the humans. That's fact. The machines do whatever they want to with the humans to keep things in control, just like the Matrix itself. You must remember that this is science fiction that takes place in the future, so again, it takes an open mind. The Oracle said that Neo tapped into the Source, or the machine mainframe. This means that Neo is able to control what he can or cannot do. The Oracle said that when Neo reaches the Source, where the Architect was, that the war would end. This is partially correct. By reaching the mainframe, or the Source, Neo is able to tap into his powers more. It's simply an ability the machines gave Thomas Anderson, aka Neo, when they grew/created him, whatever. The way I see it, Neo is a huge contingency plan the machines devised in case something went wrong... like Agent Smith. This is why Neo can only sense the sentinels AFTER the Architect scene; he's now able to harness his powers. For you see, the humans that the machines grow aren't just pure human. It's all about control. The machines will give their grown humans the appropriate abilities in order to keep everything in control, and in Neo's case, that would be the ability to tap into the source.

Now that's a very nice idea about it. So, did I misunderstand in Reloaded exactly what the source was? I thought it was behind the door that Neo didn't choose. Was it actually that entire room with the Architect in it?

Of course, people will agree or disagree with this. You're right, it isn't explained in the movie. However, does this mean there aren't enough clues to arrive at your own opinion? Not at all, and that's the great thing about it. I'm sorry you have to require so much from something that should have every right to be left open, but whatever, that's your decision.

You don't have anything to be sorry about for my personal taste Pooja. Just don't make it look like my taste is wrong, that's all. To each his own. I like these movies alot, and the third one just let me down a little bit. The blame goes two fold: 1. The movie itself, and 2. My personal interpretation of that movie. Of course there are a ton of clues as to what happened. But, as a result of that, i've seen at least three different theories about what happened, all of which plausible.

 

There was a point in between Reloaded and Revs that I thought Neo wasn't the chosen one (hence the prophecy not being fulfilled) and that the kid was. His short in the Animatrix seemed to hint toward that - but it was a long shot. I at least wanted a much larger role for him. I am glad, however that Zee had a much larger role than in Reoloaded.

Picnic, I'm curious. Why is it that you must know how Neo is capable of having his abilities? Star Wars gives no solid answer on how the Jedi have their abilites, yet you're here at the JC. We get a half ass answer in the movies on each franchise, yet all that's important is we know that they do have those abilities.

 

Was it actually that entire room with the Architect in it?

Pretty much. That's where the Architect controls everything.

 

My problem with the 10 min. love you as your dying scene wasn't the scene itself. It was the fact that the movie was flying along at lightning speed and then just stopped when we got to that part. They could have edited that in there a little better I thought.

 

My problem with the 10 min. love you as your dying scene wasn't the scene itself. It was the fact that the movie was flying along at lightning speed and then just stopped when we got to that part. They could have edited that in there a little better I thought.

That's just great isn't it? People complain about the non-stop action and the fact that the emotion is missing from Revolutions. Then when the emotion comes into play everyone starts to complain about that. Can the WBs win?

 

From a previous page:

Random thoughts on just having seen The Matrix: Revolutions...

I'm glad no one spoiled the exciting 40 minute long "hanging out in a deserted subway station with an Indian family" scene.

Why does Neo take so long to recognize that Bane is Smith? He called Neo "Mr. Anderson" about 27 times. Here's a hint Neo: it's not your boss from the software company back in the first movie.

Did Nathaniel Lees' copy of the script contain only the following line:
MIFUNE (while firing guns on battle walker): AAAARRRRGGGHHH!

If driver's side airbags were standard equipment on hovercraft, Trinity would still be alive.

If you can build battle walkers and hovercraft, why is everyone wearing threadbare sweaters? Surely you could come up with a needle and thread.

I hope the director's cut has the scene that explains why the Architect will release anyone who wants out of the Matrix instead of, say, finishing off Zion now that Smith and Neo are dead. That scene wasn't in the movie I saw.

While we're on the subject, exactly how are people going to be made aware that they're in the Matrix and that they can be released? Will all the news channels in the Matrix start broadcast the following message:
We have breaking news to report! We have just learned that reality is an illusion. You are all suspended in tanks of fluid with plugs in your head and atrophied bodies. If you'd like to be released into the post-nuclear, sunless, threadbare sweater-wearing world, just call 1-800-DESERT-OF-THE-REAL and we'll send you a blue pill.

And, finally, for those of you keeping score, the cyberpunk genre all but died out about 15 years ago. Revolutions? How about Retrospective?

Haha, funny and true. But overall, I still liked Revolutions.