Mature themes; an Adult discussion V 2 topic 3: Good old fashion NOOKIE!

why did he lick Leia and say that she'd appreciate him like that then? And why was Oola so unwilling to go to Jabba that it wound up costing her her life? I'm not saying they are biologically capable of sex with a humanoid but he could certainly molest his slaves in other demeaning ways. And that could possibly give him pleasure on some other levels. He did seem like the type that took pleasure in other's misery and pain, so it's not a stretch that that was a sort of sexual pleasure in some way as well when he demeaned Leia by licking her or did whatever he would do to Oola that made her so upset.

again, poor Oola.

sg

 

I remember reading somewhere that Hutts kept female humanoids around just for visiual pleasures. And probably for their disreputable clientel. For the rest of the galaxy I think that most planets have them, it's very unlikely that they wouldn't.

 

From the SW.com databank:

Oola, the beautiful green-skinned dancer, was enslaved to the disgusting crime lord, Jabba the Hutt. While she was one of several dancers, including Yarna D'al Gargan, Rystáll, Lyn Me and Greeata, only Oola was given the "privilege" of being chained to Jabba's throne.
Jabba delighted in watching the young Oola dance to the music of the Max Rebo Band. When Jabba wanted more than dance, however, Oola refused. Angered with his rebellious slave, Jabba opened the trap-door beneath the dance floor, and fed Oola to his deadly rancor creature.

EU page:

The tale of the Twi'lek slave girl Oola is a sad one of a short life. Her captivity began on Ryloth, the Twi'lek homeworld. Bib Fortuna, Jabba the Hutt's major-domo, longed to find the perfect "gift" for his master, the perfect slave girl to meet the crime lord's depraved interests. Fortuna found Oola living in the "place of twilight," a perpetual dusk-land on the tide-locked world.
Oola, the daughter of a clan chief, fit Fortuna's needs. Fortuna kidnapped the innocent girl, along with a younger Twi'lek girl named Sienn. Fortuna took them to his smuggling complex, and had other Twi'lek dancers teach Oola and Sienn the ways of exotic and captivating dance sure to get the Hutt's attention. Fortuna deluded the girls with tales of the opulent lifestyle of Jabba the Hutt, and the promised glory of being a palace servant. Four months later, Fortuna felt his prizes were ready. He had his assistant Jerris Rudd take them to Tatooine.

In the port city of Mos Eisley, Rudd placed Oola and Sienn in hiding. A man clad in black stumbled upon the girls' hiding place. This man was named Luke Skywalker. He promised the two escape from their slavery. Sienn fled with Luke, but Oola, tantalized by visions of palace life, stayed behind. Soon thereafter, Fortuna presented Jabba with Oola, and the Hutt crime lord was instantly smitten. Oola faced the cold reality of the Hutt's palace, a dank place of corruption filled with the dregs of the galaxy. Her life was not one of decadence, but one of servitude. She was beaten by Gamorrean guards when she did not please her masters, and was often threatened by Fortuna.

Hope eventually returned to the young girl. Two days later, when speaking in conspiratorial whispers to the Hutt's new translator droid, C-3PO, Oola learned that Luke Skywalker would arrive at the palace. With newfound hope, Oola danced that day, the best dance she had ever performed. It was also her last.

Oola was survived by her half-sister, Nolaa Tarkona, who rose to prominence two decades into the New Republic's rule. She was the leader of the Diversity Alliance, a radical anti-human alien movement that challenged the Republic's authority.

 

A lot of Twi'lek slaves are more than dancers. I believe they've pretty much stated as much in the books.

also, in one of the NJO books, han was posing as a pirate or something, and Leia was posing as his "moll", meaning his, um, mistress/prostitute.


Dana

 

The real question is, can you write these types of characters without being explicit and violating PG? I think you can...

Lots of inference, but nothing spelled out...?

 

And when you are speaking of this, what about Jedi women and their needs? Sorry, I just don't see the Jedi risking scandal and disease for a biological release. Not to mention that I'm sure they've got better things to spend their money on.

Oy...how to say something and keep this fam-friendly...

Ehh, here goes...

Other than the um....'hands on' approach, there probably are alternative ways if that became monotonous. Figuring how long the Jedi Order had gone with the no attachments rule and it being construed with the normal populous as not knowing love, I'd assume they'd have ways to keep things discreet.

 

Exactly! I really don't the Jedi need to rely on... " outside contractors," if you get my drift.

So... the question is: "Filles du joie" -- PG or no? Follow up is, is it less acceptable to think of "Gentleman du joie?" I mean, even if we're not talking slash, is a "paid male companion" to a wealthy woman more or less acceptable?

 

I don't see anything wrong with the concept of male escorts. Over in Asia there is a thriving business of men who are hired by wealthy women that's gone on for I believe centuries.

In the Western world, we're still slowly getting there.

 

I'm pretty sure the rating, PG or not, has more to do with your treatment of the subject matter. If we consider the vast majority of SW books to be PG, then one only has to look at the handling of Telbuns in the X-wing series and elsewhere. (At least, I think that's how it was spelled) It was rather obvious what they were used for, but they handled it in a way to keep it PG

 

I remember that. Stackpole basically wrote, Telbuns are used for mating, and that was about it. You had a clear idea of what Telbuns were just from that.

I think prostitutes of any sex would be a serious subject, one no more terrible than the other. A man can be put in a brothel and violated by a female villain, and you'd treat it the same way as if it were the other way around - description-wise, that is. Obviously you can't have any tab-A-slot-B action in the actual post, but you can refer to it.

Come to think of it, Stackpole does a great job of being just clear enough. For instance, little jokes like Corran needing to get sleep before a mission - it's obvious what could be keeping him awake, but Stackpole never went beyond a few kisses and caresses when writing love (or lust) scenes.

 

I have to agree with spiritgurl on the issue of the Jedi and fulfilling sexual desires. In our culture where sex is sold as being of the utmost importance, we are much more aware of and focused on this aspect of life.

The Jedi, however, are called to a higher pursuit and have been raised in a completely different mindset of viewing the world around them. Yes they are human(oid), but they're not *us*. I find that when I read Jedi written as simply someone straight out of modern western Earth culture, it feels quite wrong.

Though at the present it is much more uncommon, there have been very dedicated and self-effacing indivuals throughout time who have been able to put aside the human desire for sex in order to fulfill what they see as a higher calling of single-minded servanthood. Yes, it's very hard, but I never recall hearing that the Jedi life was supposed to be easy. The issue of falling in love is a realistic thing they might have to deal with; the issue of using others to fulfill their own desires when they themselves are supposed to be dedicated to serving others, IMHO, is not.

Now, to respond to what Renata asked about handling the subject tastefully... of course there would be prostitution in the GFFA, and I don't think it's wrong to address that issue in fics. I don't think it's impossible to handle it appropriately enough so that it could be posted here at the boards.

However, this is one of those areas where, thematically, I just don't think a story about a prostitute would ever get a PG rating were it a film. If someone can name one such film that has been made since the PG-13 rating was established, please do tell me because I'd be interested to hear about that. This is why I think that there needs to be (and, in practice at current as far as I've seen, is) a kind of acception wherein topics that would automatically get a film a PG-13 rating can slide as a PG rating in fics if done in a PG manner.

EDIT: Please note, I'm not calling for a reform or anything of the ratings. I'm simply curious as to if these 'mature themes' we're discussing are things we're allowed to write in stories and still call them PG. Because if they aren't, then why are we discussing them in this forum? And if they are, then is it presentation over theme that we should judge our fics by to see if they're 'acceptable' or not? I don't really want to spark a big debate or anything. I'm generally a pretty mild writer myself in terms of content, but theme is a different issue and that's what we're talking about here...

-sj loves kevin spacey

 

As I understand it, we are discussing them because they are mature topics and can be handled maturely in fics. For instance, going by the FAQ:

Drug use should not be shown in great detail and certainly should not be glorified under any circumstances. It should not be used for humorous purposes.

An author doesn't need blow-by-blow description of sex or drug use to get his or her point across. Something like, "They went into the bedroom" or "His eyes were glassy" says enough in the right context. It's kind of like reading books from more conservative eras, where certain topics were taboo. Writers had to find ways to show what their characters were doing without actually saying the magic words.

edit: give me a minute, I forgot what I wanted to say about prostitution.

edit2: Okay, now I remember. It was more about women using sex as a tool. There's a story in the TFN Archive by Fernwithy - Family Affair, I think it's called, or something like that. Anyway, Siri tells Obi-Wan that while undercover with Krayn the pirate, she had to sleep with him and was terrified of telling that to Adi Gallia. I just thought it was an interesting concept, somewhat related. I know there's another story on the Beyond board, with Jaina - Insatiable, I think? That one goes into the idea more than Fernwithy's did, but I thought it stayed within PG limits. Other EU characters like Leonia Tavira, Admiral Daala (bleh! ) and perhaps even Ysanne Isard - these were all women with power who used sex to get ahead (again, I'm not sure about Isard). You can write a story about these women of the Empire without mentioning sex at all, but I think it definitely helped make them who they are.

edit 3: Hey, that's another thing. Why does it always seem to be the Imperial women using sex more than the Republic women?

 

Hey, that's another thing. Why does it always seem to be the Imperial women using sex more than the Republic women?

With the way the Empire looked down on women, females had to use that ultimate power to get ahead. Under the Republic, they didn't have to resort to that.

 

I always felt that the Kuati Senator would've done that.

 

*remembers that Viqi Shesh was trying to get in good with the VOng*

Ew, Dev, bad mental image!!


Dana

 

*snickers* NO! Not with the Vong! I mean with other senators. I doubt that Tsavong Lah would've had sex with an infidel.

 

And if they are, then is it presentation over theme that we should judge our fics by to see if they're 'acceptable' or not?


That is SO RIGHT ON TARGET!!

What a great little plot bunny right there... Jedi of your choice has a contact/freind in the 'underworld' that has been a long time pleasure giver/prostitute who is loosing a battle with spice addiction... Handled the right way, this could be a powerful fic.

 

Exactly, it's how it's done. One of my Jedi heroines went undercover as a "street girl" trying to get information on how to break into a prison. I was very careful to explain that she didn't actually "do" anything... basically cozied up to the guys in bars, let them get drunk while she drank something non-alcoholic, then walked them to their homes and put a "mind whammy" on them so they woke up the next morning thinking things had gone a lot further. Everyone kept their clothes on, and a lot was suggested, but not spelled out. I tried to write it in such a way that it could also be implied that the "street girls" simply wanted dates or male companionship, rather than having a "professional" relationship.

It can be done. I find, in terms of sex and violence, that it is actually better to leave things to the imagination. The readers will supply a lot more graphic stuff than you would ever have come up with. Think of Alfred Hitchcock. Suggest, don't show. Or think of "Signs." He suggested a LOT, the movie was terrifying... until you saw the cheesy-looking alien. That was actually a let-down. The glimpses, up 'til then, had me far more scared.

 

Well good, that's very good to know

Renata, I'm a huge Hitchcock fan and a huge proponent of the idea that if you're going to make it really scary, leave it up to the imagination. There are some acceptions to this (such as in Gone With the Wind when the camera pulls back to reveal a huge field entirely filled with injured soldiers), but generally I think it works. I also think the same can go for sex, that you don't really need to show everything for people to get the impact of the scene usually. Unfortunately, modern cinema has lost sight of those kind of tactics much of the time.

I was reminded the other day of a great example of a modern PG film that deals with very serious topics: Life is Beautiful. We all know what happened in Concentration Camps by now, so it didn't need to show it. And yet it still managed to be a really powerful Holocaust film.

-sj loves kevin spacey

 

the easiest way to cover this topic is to leave it all up to the imagination. Sure, you can mention that she was standing on the corner wearing skimpy clothing. And you can mention that they left the bar to go to a back room. Leave the rest up to imagination, it will generally be worse.

 

Well, we seem to be drifting 'off topic' here a bit so I'm going to wrench it back with a challange.

Write up a scene about a 'prostitute' character (or even a whole story) that's postable in it's entirety here on the boards. Either link it here or post it in thread. If you have questions about content, you can PM one of our freindly mods or even a few of us who are 'old madams' of writing such things. There is no time limit, even when we move on to other topics nor are there any official acolades, but it's abit of fun.

 

Good idea, it's hard to stay on topic sometimes.



She sat at the bar, scanning the room; looking for likely canidates. Finally she spotted her mark. Pulling the miniscule skirt up a little higher she sat next to her.

"What do you want?" The mark asked.

"Oh I don't want anything. I was hoping I could give you something." The Twi`Lek said seductively.

"I'm fine." The human said curtly.

"But you look so lonely; sitting here all alone." Her lekku twitched.

"A friend is accompanying me."

"Well, I'm sure they would like to join us." The twi`lek said leaning on the table. She supressed a smirk at the human's attraction to her. She could get anybody. "Only two hundred."

"No." The pilot said stiffly.

"I'm a lot of fun." The Twi`lek ran her leg up and down the mark's leg. The bipedal accross from her shivered slightly.

"I have no doubt of that." The Twi`lek again had to surpress a smirk, they were wearing down. "But I have plans."

"Can't they wait. Fun before business I always say." The Twi`lek gave a carnivourous smile. "Unless it's all the same."

"One fifty."

"Two hundred."

"One fifty five."

"Two hundred."

"One seventy five."

"Deal." The two females stood and made their way past the bar and into a back room set up for this purpose. An hour later a Devorian entered and the process started over again.

**************************

"Only three hundred?" The human male said loudly. "Two jobs and only three hundred!"

"I'm sorry, if it was slow today." The Twi`lek said frightened by the man.

"I don't care!" He slapped the blue skinned Twi`lek accross the face. "When I say six hundred, I expect six hundred kriffing credits!" He kicked her a couple times and after spitting on her left the small office. An few minutes later the Twi`lek stood up holding onto the three hundred credits hidden from the man. She smirked and left.


That's about the middle level, isn't it?

 

My only thought here, and it's common in a lot of works... you need a definate break like between

An hour later a Devorian entered and the process started over again.

and

"Only three hundred?" The human male said loudly. "Two jobs and only three hundred!"

Something like a few **** as a visual cue that there is a scene shift.

But otherwise it's great!

 

Ahh, and that's the nice thing about the Fanfiction forums, unlimited edit time.

 

Random comment here regarding harems in the GFFA - Aayla Secura spent some time in a harem.

In the Republic comics, Aayla was captured, had her memories mostly wiped with drugs and chemicals, and was made part of her uncles harem. She developed a glitteryll addiction, and ran off to be the lover of a dark side Anzati. While Quinlan was able to rescue her and restore her memories, the fact is that she was one heck of a... naughty... girl for a while. So, you have drug addiction, sexual slavery, and strongly implied incest. Of course, while the reader was aware of what was going on, it's not like we actually got to see any t&a.


I'm surprised no one has written an AU where it's Aayla who went in as a spy against Dooku rather than Quinlan. Naughty Dark Side Twi'lek babe? Yeah, it'd probably end up way past PG13.