Midichlorians - What are they really?

In TPM midichlorians are introduced as substances that exist within the body that make someone sensitive to the force. They could be described as chemicals within the body that act as a messenger between the person and the force, correct?

What is a chemical messenger within the body? - A hormone.



Therefore someone who has a abnormally high midichlorian count has abnormally high hormone levels.

People with high hormone levels are more likely to make drastic rash actions, such as Anakin killing the sand people (very drastic but then Anakin must have the mother of all hormone imbalances).

The two Jedi we have seen (or will see) turn, Anakin and Dooku are both very powerful Jedi. Also, think of ROTJ when the Emperor is trying to convert Luke. He is trying to gode him into making a drastic rash action.

It could also add extra meaning to Yoda's initial reluctance to train Luke.

I think it could be an interesting twist. The fact he is so powerful in the force is a contrabuting factor to his turn to the dark side.

*Edit incorporating reply to Bib Fortuna's post into initial post*

Ok, in reply to this and when I posted this in the Ep3 section.

Midichlorians have a simbiotic relationship with the host. As midichlorians make the host force sensitive, there must be communication between the host and the midichlorians. Because of the level at which this takes place, it has to be a chemical message (i.e. a hormone).

The midichlorians communicate with the host via hormones. The more midichlorians, the more hormones there must be to communicate with them. This has slightly modified my theory but my arguements still hold true.

 

They're not chemicals or hormones; they're creatures living within a person's cells.

 

*Edit - Has been incorporated into main post, see above*

 

Qui-Gon gave an extraordinarily simple and elegant explanation of midichlorians in The Phantom Menace. It baffles me why the little buggers are still such a mystery to some.

 

Midichlorians..midichlorians...

Pesky little buggers, eh? Always seem to be brought up when discussing ability in the Force...don't know why though...





Midichlorians are a species of microscopic organism that are known to the Jedi Knights as a symbiotic creature that exists within the cells of every living creature. Life in the galaxy is dependent upon the midichlorians, although the exact genesis of the microscopic midichlorians is unknown. There is no pattern which dictates the concentration of midi-chlorians in a being's make-up, but a higher count of midichlorians in a being's cells allows them to touch the Force. As the count increases, so does the being's ability to contact and control the Force, but true mastery of the Force comes only from intense concentration and study.

Thus, the Jedi Knights devoted themselves to the study and control of the Force, and developed techniques that could detect high concentrations of midichlorians in young infants.






Anyways, midichlorians are more or less "receptors" of the Force. Sort of like, let us say, steroids in a sports game.


You don't have to have steroids to excel, although these "enchancements" make it easier to.


That's how midichlorians work- they are more of an additional support when manipulating and using the Force.

The ability of using the Force does as something to do with midichlorians, although it is based more upon concentration that physical being.




Take for exampel a normal Correllian newborn. Regular human male- let's say he has a "high" midichlorian count in terms of Jedi standards. The Jedi somehow test this baby and find this out, and so they prepare take him to the Temple to be trained.

At the same time another Correllian baby, at the same infirmary, is accidentally switched with the baby that has the high midichlorian count. The other baby is taken to the Jedi Temple to be trained.

Shift forward 12 standard years- the boy has now attained the age of 12 and begun more extensive training in the field of Jedi arts.


You have to ask yourself- is there a difference? Did this child actually progress as he did through Jedi training WITHOUT a high midichlorian count? Scholars of the Old Republic would say that it is "proposterous", yet those who have witnessed the actual events occurring would beg to differ.

Midichlorians affect how much of the Force a person listens to initially- NOT the outcome affect through a number of means that can either be inherited or taught. Just like the definition at the beginning of my post shows (the print in bold ).



Hope that helps mates.




Ken Kenobi- And you have a nice day

 

I agree, they're not hormones. They're like little micro-organisms like Ken said. But I think the example Ken gave about the 2 Correllian newborns switched at birth is fair game for a tiny bit of postulation. We don't know for sure that the boy with the lower midichlorian count even has the ability to reach a level of "more extensive training," as Ken says.

12 years after the accidental switch, the boy with the low midichlorian count may be struggling to levitate his pencil.

Logically, the Jedi Council might suspect that the boy isn't what they had anticipated with the original midichlorian test and run another count.

One might suppose that the number of midichlorians dictate an individual's potential 'peak' in force attunement. An extremely high midichlorian count would indicate ability for the individual to pursue higher and higher training, perhaps even up to the highest rungs.

Whereas a Jedi-in-training with a lower midichlorian count may experience a sort of Force-ability cap, a point where the trainee has reached his or her limit.

However, there is, given this scenario, always the possibility that the one with a high midichlorian count may let his or her potential go to waste. Then someone else with a lower count could logically surpass the lesser-trained/higher-midichlorian-count person in overall skill and performance.

 

Very good arguments ... but I think I'll just stick to Qui-Gon's explaination. The way I see it, midichlorians are creatures that live in our cells and give the Jedi the ability to use the Force. I doubt they use hormones because ... well, to give people the ability to use the Force they (the midichlorains) must be able to access the Force, right? Therefore it's no puzzle that they can communicate with their 'host'. The Jedi can supposedly communicate mind-to-mind (and sense things, etc) so the midichlorians should be able to do the same.

 

Midichlorians:

A very stupid and completely useless idea that we will probably never hear of again in Episode III.

 

Well that was kinda not necessary. You don't have to go into every thread you can trying to find a reason to bash the prequels ya know.

 

KenKenobi and Doikk Nots,

I think the midichlorian count shows the maximum potential that particular person has in the force. No matter how high or low the count is, it would still take years of dedication and hard work to reach that potential.

Darth Xan318,

You are suggesting that force sensitive characters communicate with midichlorians telepathically the same way as they can communicate with each other, correct?
This implies that midichlorians have nothing to do with telepathic communication. In that case it should be possible for someone who has a count of 0 to be telepathic, correct? Also if this is the case why cant midichlorians communicate with someone other then their host? It has been strongly suggested that distance irrelevent to telepahty.

If midichlorians are required to be able to communicate with the force, then they have to part of the process of communication. If someone with a count of 0 cannot communicate with the force then their can be no direct communication between a person and the force.

This implies that communication with the force is via midichlorians. The force communicates with the midichlorians, which in turn communicate with the host or vice versa.

The only way it is possible for a sub cellular object to communicate with the host is through chemical messangers, i.e. hormones!

 

Closest thing to Midichlorians are Mitachonrida.
Bascially the body's batteries. Engerizers, "Do you have the bunny inside?"

Not hormone based at all. Yeah they are symboitic, we need them, without 'em, our bodies can't store engery and process like it should. SOME do have more of them then others.
That could explain why some people have a higher natural endurance then others.

All in all, it's weird, but fasinating.
Good thread, and good discsuion. Meanwhile I need to recharge my batteries.
Jauhzmynn

 

Good point Jauhzmynn.

I just looked up about mitochondria and found they have their own DNA. Good analogy!

I suppose the thing to do is find out how they talk to the body and this will show whether or not my idea has any basis to it.

Thanks

 

NP Darth Gizmo,

As to how they 'talk' to the body. I'm taking a BIG wild guess here. Humm. Maybe (I don't know, I haven't my micro biology book with me) most cellular communication is is electro-chemical in nature. Doesn't matter to me as long as the boys and girls don't keep my up all night.

The DNA is really amazing. Imean yeah mitachonrida have their own DNA< but wait til you find out about RNA, and a few other forms of DNA.

On top of that, proper diet, excersis and sleep can help the little critters, a deficite in any or all of that, really hammers 'em.
I don't know if ya' can talk to 'em, I never tried. Might be a tad nervous if I tired. I might get chewed out for staying up 18 hours a day.:/

 

Well, there are many aspects to midichlorians that are not so "simple" - but they can all be explained.

If they are seperate organisms, then they are not like mitochondria. Mitochondria started out a bacteria-like organisms in simple one-celled organisms, but in our bodies, they can't be called "symbionts". I think to be a symbiont, you need to have TWO seperate species or organisms.

If they are indeed seperate organisms, then why are they passed genetically? Why do they prefer some people to others?

I think that all living things produce some type of cellular fluid which either attracts or feeds the midis, or both. The ability to generate this celluar fluid, and in what quantity, is genetic.

Therfore:

Living things = flowers
Midis = bees
Jedi = very "sweet" flowers

Which satisfies genetic inheritance and midi individualism

 

Actually the mitachonrida we have ARE symbiotic. They have somemany unltra small parts inside, it's brain bustingly amazing.

They can't live outside our bodies, with them, we have trouble in the energy department. As to why some have more of them then others, or even IF that's the case, isn't really known. Knowlege in the area of micro biology is still growing. All I know is when God creates each person, each is fearfully and wonderfully made. Unicquce, so whatever inate things He's placed in that person, it's for a reason.

 

You sound like you know whuzzup Jaz, but I still am not sure that the human/mitochondria relationship qualifies under the definition of symbiotic.

If it does (I am wrong at LEAST as often as I am right), then I still don't know if that was where GL was going.

The word "symbiont" is used twice in TPM, to describe the life/midi relationship and the Gungan/Nabooian relationship. To me, this implies that the midis are more similar to bacteria/viruses than to mitochondria.

 

I would imagine they work a bit like a part of the immune system.

 

Pretty cool from http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/refpages/RefArticle.aspx?refid=761582165


When a cell divides, the mitochondria replicate independently of the nucleus. The two daughter cells formed after cell division each receive half of the mitochondria as the cytoplasm divides. When an egg is fertilized by a sperm, the sperm's mitochondria are left outside the egg. The fertilized zygote inherits only the mother's mitochondria. This maternal inheritance creates a family tree that is not affected by the typical shuffling of genes that occurs between a mother and father.

While the DNA within mitochondria directs the synthesis of enzymes for aerobic respiration, it also codes for proteins important in the nervous system, circulatory system, and other body functions. A number of genetic diseases, including diabetes mellitus, deafness, heart disease, Alzheimer?s disease, Parkinson disease, and Leber?s Hereditary Optic Neuropathy, a condition of complete or partial blindness, are associated with mutations in mitochondrial DNA. A relatively new medical specialty, mitochondrial medicine, seeks to understand the role of mitochondrial DNA mutations in genetic diseases.

A recent comparison of samples of human mitochondrial DNA suggests that humans have descended from a woman who lived in Africa 140,000 to 290,000 years ago. Genetic samples taken from African, Asian, Australian, European, and New Guinean ethnic groups revealed a specific number of mitochondrial DNA types. Comparison of these mitochondrial DNA types enabled scientists to construct a family tree that shows when each group probably began evolving away from one another. On this tree, the African mitochondrial DNA occupies the longest and oldest of the branches, giving rise to the other ethnic groups. There were likely many other women alive at the time of the so-called mitochondrial Eve, but their lines of maternal inheritance have died out. This commonly occurs when one generation in a family fails to have a daughter.

Another use of mitochondrial DNA analysis is in forensic science. The identities of the skeletons alleged to be those of Tsar Nicholas II, the last Russian tsar, and his family were recently established using mitochondrial DNA. The mitochondrial DNA of a living maternal relative of the tsar's family was found to be an exact match to the suspected remains of the tsar's wife, Alexandra, and three children. Because mitochondrial DNA is inherited through the mother, the mitochondrial DNA of Tsar Nicholas II's skeleton did not match that of his wife and children.

So...for centuries, families have wanted boys to carry on their family trees. Billions of people CAN be wrong!

 

Uall,
I don't evewrything, but I do like discussions. And I don't get offended easily.
Goege was saying, "take a leap of faith" about the Force thing from the movies. That even if a person screws up, there's always hope for redemption. About the Midis. <big shrug> beats me, maybe it's a way to say we'er all one big family no matter how funny we look. b All in all, a very good story.

Gungans and Nabooians needed eachother b/c each had qualities and skills that helepd the other one out. And each was made by God and was beautiful, equal with each other. So they look funny, no problem. Gungans have pretty smiles.