Senate Mormonism

What do Mormons believe is the eternal fate of devout and practicing Catholics and Protestants who do not follow the LDS theology?

 

I'm at work right now, so I'm a bit more limited in the resources that I have available (and the time to respond).

The short version is this: We can never grow to be equal to God. However, we can become like God, much like a child can grow to be like his parents.

The Bible explicitly says that we are gods (see Psalm 82, quoted by Christ in John 10, IIRC), and we are children of the Most High. Christ also commanded us to be perfect, even like God is perfect (see Matthew 5). The Bible also teaches that God doesn't give us commandments that we cannot fulfill (I forget the exact reference, but it's in either 1 or 2 Corinthians). The Bible also promises that we can inherit, as joint-heirs with Christ, all that the Father has (see Romans, I forget the chapter and verse).

With all of that just from the Bible, why is it unreasonable for modern prophets to teach that we can become like God?

I need to get back to work, but I'll try to add more later.

Kimball Kinnison

 

Gen 3:5 "For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."

Interesting.

 

To make a very long answer not quite so long, allow me to explain, no, there is too much, let me sum up!

The basis of this question, if I am hearing you correctly, is asking about the fate of those who practice a different religion, but are very devout in their beliefs, and live life according to their dictates? Please re-phrase if I mis-read you.

Ok, basically, in order to get into this question, we'd have to have a discussion on the restoration of Christ's church. To make a long story short, we believe that every religion has a thread of the truth within them. One religion could have based their beliefs soley on baptism (for example), while another one could base their religion solely on the Holy Ghost.

Remember, I'm using these as EXAMPLES to illustrate my point. This is not saying what anybody else believes.

Now, we believe that we have the ENTIRE truth since we believe in the restoration of the Priesthood Authority and continuing revelation. However, if a person who practices another religion devoutly, and lives life according to their dictates, we believe that those people will be offered a chance to learn the ENTIRE gospel on the other side (read: after death). Some people will not accept this doctrine (even after death), but others will. This leads us to the importance of Temple Work.

We believe that through the blessings of teh temple (baptisms for the dead, etc.) our loved ones will be given that opportunity to hear/accept the gospel after death. Therefore, those you have asked about will be given an opportunity to hear the gospel in it's fulness, and once the temple work is done for those individuals, they may have the same blessings in Eternity that we believe we MAY have, as well.

Clear as mud?

 

When you get a chance, I'm looking for the LDS scriptures that support this position.

I'm disturbed that the LDS may have practices that are not supported by their own scriptures.

 

Um... The Bible is part of our scriptures.

So, even if the support given is only from the Bible, it's still from "[our] own scriptures".

Kimball Kinnison

 

I have been busy the past few days, but I did not mean to say LordRevan was the one bashing, but rather the clergy that, instead of teaching what he believed to be true, made a point to try and show that some other religion was false. It is fine to ask questions of others, but when you go about trying to convert others by proving everyone else is wrong instead of that you are right, I have a real problem with that. This doesn't just apply to Fundamentalist Christians that have anti-Mormon classes. If those that believe in science think it will disprove religion, they shouldn't need to try and show religion is false, they should just try and show how science is right.

 

I wasn't trying to suggest they weren't. Since most of Christiandom seems to have come to a different conclusion about man's future, and since the "additional" scriptures of the LDS are meant to better translate the Bible for those who have misread it, I wanted to see where the LDS scriptures make this clarification.

Is it the position of the LDS church that humans are presently gods? The Psalms bit is in the present tense. Its an interesting position.

 

President Bush is in Salt Lake City today and will be, among other things, meeting with President Hinckley (the LDS prophet) and other LDS leaders for 45 minutes. IMO this will be a meeting between the two most important leaders in the world, the prophet of God on the Earth today and the President of the most powerful nation on the Earth. I would love to be a fly on the wall during their conversation.

 

I wonder what they'll discuss?

 

I have no idea. Maybe the church website will post details on the meeting sometime soon.

 

With the recent capture of Warren Jeffs (I think thats his name) I'm just curious exactly what happened to make that group break off from the main church. Does anyone here know?

 

Well, based on a few quick internet searches (I haven't realy read up on the history of the FLDS church before), it was started by a group of people who were excommunicated in 1935 for practicing polygamy after the LDS church abandonded the practice in 1890.

I will note that the FLDS church has distorted the practice of plural marriage from what the LDS church practiced. For example, when Warren Jeffs proclaimed himself the new prophet of the FLDS church after he father (Rulon Jeffs), he married all but two of his father's widows (according to reports, Rulon had up to 75 wives). That never happened with any of the pre-1890 LDS prophets or their successors.

Kimball Kinnison

 

Wow... thats quite a few wives there. Its amazing any man could handle that many women

 

When my parents got married, my mother told my dad that he could have all the wives he could handle.

By that measure, he says he has one too many.

Kimball Kinnison

 

"The more, the merrier!"


JK


Steven

 

moving up.

 

Thanks for bringing this one up. There should always be a Mormonism thread on the front page!

 

Asked in another thread:

If by that you are referring to the Endowment, yes I have (back in 1999). I also used to be a temple worker (officiating in temple ordinances) for about 2 years, and am currently a "temple service patron", asked to attend the temple on a weekly basis.

I'll answer what questions I can about it, however, the temple ceremonies are some of our most sacred teachings, and there are parts of it that I have made covenants not to talk about or reveal, except inside the temple itself. And while there are those who have revealed such things outside the temple, that doesn't change the fact that I have made those covenants not to reveal them, and I intend to keep those covenants.

I ask you to respect that.

Kimball Kinnison

 

Question: Does "Temple Liturgy" refer to LDS worship services in general, or do these refer to some sort of private ceremonies separate from daily/weekly devotional services? Do Mormons go to weekly church like other denominations, and are those services open to all? What about rites like weddings, funerals, etc.? Are those closed, or are they open to everyone, or...?

 

I just heard mormons believe heaven is a factual place ( accessible from this planet (no magic gateway or such)) then could you build a spaceship and fly to heaven and if the mormons believe this is possible, are you then not embracing bigger NASA fundings?

 

K.K. I totally respect that.

My main question is regarding the difference between a regular (non-Temple) marriage and a Temple marriage. I have heard that a Mormon can marry a non-Mormon, but that this can only be a civil marriage, whereas a Temple marriage can only be between to Mormons in good standing, and that furthermore, only the latter is regarded as an "Eternal Marriage". I wanted to know what the difference was.

I was also curious about the part of the Temple which was supposed to be like Heavan on Earth, the "Celestial Room" which I have heard of referred to as the "Heavan Room". If this cannot be described to non-Mormons, that is cool.

Thanks.

 

We have our weekly meetings in church buildings in our localities. Our weekly worship service consists of "Sacrament Meeting" (similar to Mass), "Sunday School" (self explanatory), and "Priesthood" (for the men) and "Relief Society" (for the women). Priesthood and Relief society tend to have the same lessons, but each gives a different perspective (focused more towards being a father or a mother, husband or wife, etc).

Our temples are different, separate buildings in which we perform special ordinances for ourselves, and on behalf of our dead ancestors (giving them the opportunity, but not forcing them, to accept those ordinances as if they received them before they died). These ordinances are Initiatories (ceremonial washings and annointings), the Endowment (a ceremony that teaches about the Plan of Salvation and our place within that plan), and Sealings. There are two types of Sealings. First, there is Sealing to Spouse, where a husband and wife are sealed together as a family for time and all eternity, not just until death. Second, there is Sealing to Parents, where children who were born to parents who were not sealed together at the time of the child's birth are sealed to their parents for all eternity. (Children born after the parents are sealed are "Born in the Covenant", and are already sealed to their parents.)

In addition to these ordinances, all of which are performed for both the living and the dead, there are three additional ordinances performed for the dead. These are Baptism, Confirmation/Bestowing the Gift of the Holy Ghost, and Ordaining to the Priesthood (in the case of men). For those who are living, these ordinances are performed outside of the temple.

That would be extremely inaccurate. While it might be theoretically possible (see the comments about Kolob in the other thread), we have no idea of the location, let alone how far away it might be if true. We don't even know if "heaven" (the term has different meanings, and is imprecise in this context) would be a planet, region of space, or even anything else.

In order for a marriage to be eternal, it has to be performed in a temple by someone who holds the sealing power (someone such as Elijah from the Old Testament). These people hold the office of "Sealer", and there are several within each temple district (the geographical area served by a specific temple).

A member can marry whomever they wish in a civil ceremony. I, for example, was married by my Bishop outside of the temple, to someone who was not a member at the time (she was baptized a short time later). Our marriage, being only a civil one, can only last until death (and, in fact, will only last until sometime next month, as we are in the middle of a divorce). After a year of marriage, we would be eligible to be seald in the temple, as if we had been married there in the first place (we separated just after our first anniversary, and did not get sealed in the temple). A marriage outside

 

The pictures are helpful, thanks a million.

One more question about Temple Marriage or Sealing:

If you have a temple marriage can you get a divorce (like you did form your civil marriage) or is it irreversable?

 

Well, I am not divorced yet (it won't be final until next month), but you can get a "temple divorce" if you have previously been sealed.

It's a separate process from getting a civil divorce, and it usually requires First Presidency approval (I think, never had to do it myself), but it is possible, and it is done on a fairly regular basis.

Kimball Kinnison