My defense of George Lucas...

<cough>RIPOFF</cough>

 

In the end, only the gushers will remain, huh?

I'm not so sure about that.

Bashers have a very strong drive to constantly bash the PT. It almost seems like an obligation. A weird devotion to something they hate.

 

[image=http://www.toysrgus.com/images-speci/mailaways/cereal-box-f.jpg]

That's right. Kickin' it ol' skool.

 

[image=http://realmofroyalty.homestead.com/files/AOTC_cerealbox.jpg]


Did anyone actually try these?

 

Imagine there's no gushers,
It's easy if you try,
No Bashers below us,
Above us only sky,
Imagine all the fanboys
living for today...

Imagine there's no planets,
It isnt hard to do,
Nothing to kill or die for,
No force use too,
Imagine all the fanboys
living life in peace...

Imagine no possesions,
I wonder if you can,
No need for greed or hunger,
A brotherhood of fans,
Imagine all the fanboys
Sharing all the films...

You may say George is a dreamer,
but he's not the only one,
I hope some day you'll join us,
And the SW fans will live as one.

 

Yeah. I did. They were okay if you like candy cereal. I bought 2 boxes but there's better stuff out there. Like Count Dookula.

 

Nice poem, but this thread isn't leading anywhere is it?

 

Honestly, was there ever any hope for this thread?

 

I guess we have to wait for DrEvazan to chime in with his bitterness..

 

Master Yodaschum,

Not my poem.
John Lenon's poem it is.
With a little Star Wars Discussion board twist


Sing it to the tune of Imagine

I especially like the part of imagine no possesions, becuase anikin can have none.

Imagine no possesions,
It isn't hard to do
No attacthments either,
but compassion will do
Imagine all the Jedi, Living life with sith, ah haaaa

 

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Here's MY defence of George Lucas.

Take that, basher!

 

Yet another missed opportunity to discuss and learn more about Star Wars. At this point, all that's left to do is guess which moderator will be the one to close this thread.

My only remaining question is for the "gushers" I guess. Why even bother reading or posting to this thread if you are not interested in the topic under discussion? Certainly you can find other topics more to your taste, topics that deal with lightsaber colors, Qui-Gon's voice, or deconstructionalist theories of mythology within AOTC. They're all there on the front page.

 

Why even bother reading or posting to this thread if you are not interested in the topic under discussion? Certainly you can find other topics more to your taste, topics that deal with lightsaber colors, Qui-Gon's voice, or deconstructionalist theories of mythology within AOTC. They're all there on the front page.

Please don't ask this question again.

 

But since I am interested in this topic, I will respond to Kryatt_Dragon's informative and well-composed post:

As his good friend Steven pointed out in a 60 Minutes interview, "he was pulverized!" I think Lucas is dating again but I'm sure he's not at the point where he can comfortably write a love story. On the other hand some people wouldn't be comfortable with it under the best of circumstances. I think George is one of those people.

Certainly Lucas's private life has factored heavily into his post-OT works. From what I understand, Lucas's marriage was already pretty shaky by the time of ROTJ production, which probably caused the progressively child-centric angle of the film. I believe Lucas made some sort of public statement that after Linda Rondstadt (thank the maker it wasn't Liza Minelli as I previously thought), he would "never love again", and that he was going to focus only on his children. Therefore, I conclude that Lucas (like a lot of other people, certainly) deals with failed relationships by concentrating on those more stable and solid: his children. Sounds like a good deal to me, but...

...it appears that this attitude carries over into his works, which have all been family-friendly PG-esque fare since ROTJ. In the OT, children are neither seen nor heard; in the PT, they are both -- and often. It appears that the films have now become more autobiographical than fantasy (as indicated by my early posts in this thread).

Like Lucas, the films now focus more on children's tastes instead of catering to everyone. But in doing this, I wonder if his approach is not successfully targeting the children, but in fact isolating them as well. As a child, I was more interested in seeing the exciting world of adulthood (flying space ships, swordfighting, telekenesis) than I was the mundane world of childhood (homework, watching TV, making the bed). Aren't today's children the same?

Getting back to the love story, one of the problems I have with the romance dialogue is that it doesn't seem like something Anakin would say, but rather something that George Lucas himself would say. My feelings are reinforced by Carrie Fisher's quote implies that Lucas's dialogue is almost exactly how he speaks. I think the conversation went "George, no one talks like this!" to which he replied "I do." It looks like Lucas is forcing his personal perspective of love and relationships into a story in which it doesn't quite fit.

So the PT is ultimately the "more personal" Lucas story. For some of you, a lot of you, maybe you find this preferrable to the "less personal" OT films. I am from a different school of thought however, a school that believes the best characters are constructed from real-life observation of everyday people. Writing is work, and it's hard work. It involves meeting people, interacting, listening, taking notes, studying speech patterns, considering rhythm and accent, etc. etc. And that's just dialogue. I don't know if shutting yourself in a room with a yellow pad is the best way to go about writing your movies. Stories like that have a tendency to sound like they were written by someone in a room all by themselves.

I think I was hoping that I would see the PT films and say, "That's unmistakeably a Lucas film, look how amazing it was!" Instead, I said, "That's unmistakably a Lucas film; every character talks just like him."

 

"It looks like Lucas is forcing his personal perspective of love and relationships into a story in which it doesn't quite fit."

It fits just fine as far as I'm concerned.

Uh, it's HIS movie, so I would ASSUME the guy is going to put HIS perspective of love and relationships into it. Who else's perspective would he put in there? STAR WARS is Lucas's vehicle of self-expression which he can use at his discretion.


All that garbage about what writing is to you is just that. That's what it means to YOU. Plenty of writers work alone. Nothing unusual about that whatsoever.

 

...it appears that this attitude carries over into his works, which have all been family-friendly PG-esque fare since ROTJ.

Hold on a sec. I can see saying this for ROTJ and TPM (even if I don't necessarily agree), but don't see how you can call AOTC that. First of all, this was by far the most violent of the movies, featuring numerous decapitations, one case of a Tusken being cut in two, Geonosians being hacked into confetti, and other graphic violence. It also had a far more adult slant in the plot. It had a love story, which seems to turn most kids off. It had a tortured Shmi dying in her son's arms, as well as the confession scene that follows - a little heavy for "kiddie fare". I hardly think, with all that, that it can be classified as "family-friendly PG-esque fare". Frankly, this has always been a criticism of AOTC that mystifies me (I don't see it very often, though).

 

So the PT is ultimately the "more personal" Lucas story. For some of you, a lot of you, maybe you find this preferrable to the "less personal" OT films.

I tend to agree. I still prefer the "less personal" OT though.

The PT is certainly quite personal and a lot of that has to do with the main story of Anakin's fall. How can it not be more personal with the death of his mother and his eventual fall to become Darth Vader? The tragic undertones of the PT almost require that it be at a more personal level.

I'm very cautious at starting to apply all kinds of parallels to a movie and someone's private life and I really have to be skeptical about overanalyzing, like "that bad guy really represents this" or something.

Say what you will about TPM but about the only time in AOTC where GL seems to really appeal to the kids is with Threepio's antics in the factory and the arena. And I would argue that you almost need it to lighten things up because the rest of the movie is generally quite serious and a bit more mature for a SW film. I mean, how many decaptitations did we get?

But it seems like some fans, having grown up, try to elevate the OT along with that aging, as if the OT was always targeted at adults.

I believe that the OT were and are just as much "kid's" movies as the PT, just that, as a modern myth should, it has a very wide appeal.

And if you want to talk about sophistication of story and character elements, I'd be inclined to lean on the PT on that one. None of the SW films have ever been about addressing modern complexity but the PT does delve into some more complicated plots compared to what we were given in the OT. Maybe this different feel in the narrative is turning some people off because it has more of a "real-world" feel in some respects and it jars some people out of the story.

But as for dialogue, there's a bit of a paradox to consider when dealing with a fantasy universe such as SW. Do you want to make the characters sound just like somebody that you'd hear on the street or do you try to change it up a bit and give it the feel of a GFFA?

To use an example from ESB, who insults people by calling them a "nerf-herder" or "laserbrain" in the real world? Nobody. When people say that this so cheesy or that is so cornball, they may have a point if they're taking it out of its context in the SW universe. But like it or not, cheese is part of the SW saga, PT or OT and a lot of it has to do with its roots in B-movies and serials.

 

Thank God that crap about cereal is over with. TokyoExtreme, I agree with you about Lucas unintenionally isolating kids. In my local newspaper, the week AOTC came out, they asked a 10 year old boy if he wanted to see AOTC and he said "No because JarJar is goofy."

 

yeah, right. Ten year old boys only go for that sophisticated intellectual humor.

 

When I was 10 years old, I read a lot of Mad Magazine. Is that intellectual comedy?

But as for dialogue, there's a bit of a paradox to consider when dealing with a fantasy universe such as SW. Do you want to make the characters sound just like somebody that you'd hear on the street or do you try to change it up a bit and give it the feel of a GFFA?

Some good points here. What I like best about the OT dialogue, is that it feels simultaneously alien yet familiar. Although the vocabulary and situations are literally out-of-this-world, it is presented in a completely understandable and "human" manner. A classic exchange occurs in ANH immediately after the Falcon's escape from the Death Star. Luke says, "I care" just before asking Han what he thinks about Leia. Once Han senses Luke's interest, he makes the comment about "a princess and a guy like me"... just to rile Luke up a bit. This is a classic situation taken from observation of everyday life. The OT is littered with such exchanges... but there are very few in the PT.

I'd be the last person to suggest a scene in which Mace and Obi-Wan talk about what they call Jawa Juice on Malastare!

To use an example from ESB, who insults people by calling them a "nerf-herder" or "laserbrain" in the real world? Nobody. When people say that this so cheesy or that is so cornball, they may have a point if they're taking it out of its context in the SW universe. But like it or not, cheese is part of the SW saga, PT or OT and a lot of it has to do with its roots in B-movies and serials.

Although people (with the exception of SW fans) would not say "nerf-herder" or "laserbrain" in the real world, the context of that situation is quite analogous to the real-world. That's probably the magic of Star Wars, isn't it? To make the fantastic seem commonplace, while still looking fantastic. I don't feel that AOTC was all that human; TPM was more so.

That's a great ESB line, by the way. I shed a single tear anytime a "gusher" calls it "trashy dialogue", etc...

Right now I want to give it up for all my peeps in "Toshi Station and the Power Convertors." Another fantastic OT line...

 

TokyoExtreme

Thanks for the armchair analysis of Lucas's motivations in writing the prequels. We have taught you well. Now, admit you love George and you're journey to the Gusher Side will be complete.

 

Yoda900 - I wrote that song you fiend!

I hate all you guys and your petty squabbles. Star Wars is for fun you monsters! You and your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!

Star Wars "fans" makes me sick!

 

I ask again, who enjoys Star Wars more, the bashers or the gushers?

Obviously the gushers enjoy the fanchise more, unless one can find enjoyment being bitterly resentful.

 

"I ask again, who enjoys Star Wars more, the bashers or the gushers?

Obviously the gushers enjoy the fanchise more, unless one can find enjoyment being bitterly resentful."

Welllll, I don't know if that's true. Some people got as much enjoyment out of TESB as they did out of TPM, whereas I enjoyed TESB about 100 times as much. I hear a lot of "gushers" complaining about bad dialogue, bad acting, and bad plotting in ANH and TESB, whereas I think the dialogue, acting and plot in those films is fantastic.

So, I guess it varies. You can't just split it along gusher/basher lines.

 

I ask again, who enjoys Star Wars more, the bashers or the gushers?

I wonder if enjoyment can even be measured... why bother to ask? I like ESB and ANH so much that I often watch some chapters whenever I have a few extra minutes. There are so many wonderful and unique things about these films, that I'm surprised to see "TRUE FANS" so quickly dismiss the dialogue, acting, and pacing -- calling it on exactly the same level as the PT films (their words: "just as bad"). With the way these fans lambaste the OT story and discard the quality, I wonder why they ever liked Star Wars in the first place. TIE Fighter sound effects probably.

I'm more than willing to accept the faults of the OT, but there aren't many, and they aren't that big of a deal. There's nothing quite on the level of the banality of AOTC or the irratibility of TPM. Yes Jar-Jar, I'm looking at you. Actually, I'm looking just a few inches over your head...