ST New Canon Material (novels, TV shows, comics, games) and TFA

Disney/Lucasfilm is in charge of canon. If you only like George's work then I guess you shouldn't follow Star Wars. That seems absolutely silly, but I am sure that there are a few folks out there like that.

 

Repeating "It was (whateverlevel) canon" is being entirely disingenuous. I am sorry that you are sensitive to the facts presented. I understand that the material in question was loved by a lot of people and it helps to remember that they were filed into a category and were provided with a level of "canon". That does not change the fact that it was all a convoluted system to separate all of that stuff from the official canon. The only thing that happened was that the convoluted system was removed. Nothing else changed.

The last word is yours.

 

I'm not sensitive about it, I'm merely presenting an argument that goes slightly deeper than repeating "ITS NOT CANON" without examining what that can possibly actually mean in practice to a reader.

I mean, there used to be that thread "is my Jar Jar Colouring book canon?" , which kind of illustrated perfectly that of course not every tie in depicts things that can be considered to have happened in the fictional universe, but when you stoop for a minute and examine what you actually are saying when you say "it's not canon", it doesn't actually amount to anything of use.

A reader of the old EU knew that:
* Lucas didn't write it
* the writer may have had some communication with Lucas
* the story takes place within the Star Wars universe
* at some point in the future, bits of it might be contradicted.

Within those limitations, the books were intended to be read, and intended to be immersive experiences, and crucially, going by their release dates they were intended to be considered as background for the prequels. It's fine if people didn't read them (and I suspect that part of what this whole debate is actually about is whether they needed to be read, which obviously they didn't)

So bearing in mind that readers already knew all of the above, it kind of puts what people who repeatedly say "it's not canon! It was never canon!" into the position where they seem to just want people not to have enjoyed the EU.
I mean, the EU was never anything other than stories set within the Star Wars universe, so if they were never intended to be read as being within the Star Wars universe, they should never have been released.
None of it actually happened, obviously.
And I doubt that (going back to the same book) The Approaching Storm will be contradicted, but fine: it's part of a jettisoned EU.

But it seems the height of ridiculousness to tell anyone who read that book that they don't know the story of the border dispute referred to.

Edit: and of course, the most important argument against any canon wars when you have officially released stories within a setting: the creators of a story have absolutely no rights over how the reader interprets a creative work. That's the most important reason for levels of canon - so that the writers could provide the readers with the best possible experience (and go in with eyes open about contradiction or being overwritten down the line)

 

Official canon is whatever the owner of the property says it is. Everything else is whatever the reader wants it to be. It's really that simple.

 

Given that the use of "canon" suggests a story whose details cannot be contradicted, I always found "C-canon" deliberately misleading and vacuous. It basically meant "It's not really canon but we're calling it that to make you feel better", since "Canon until it's contradicted" is like having a square circle, a five-sided triangle or a married bachelor.

 

"C-canon" = canon to each other, but not canon to the movies.

 

Sure, and they still are in that sense.

 

Well this debate speaks to why they just gave an ironclad statement as to what is canon. Now there is no room for interpretation.

 

On the topic of Shattered Empire......

I am disappointed it doesn't focus directly on what happens to the main heroes after the Battle of Endor and decides to focus on some married couple who fought for the Rebellion.

WTF??

Even the Aftermath novel doesn't focus on Luke, Han, Leia and Lando.

 

OK, a few points. Things did change with the Story Group announcement on canon; there were multiple levels of canon before, as others have noted here already. It is not accurate to simply say that books in the EU were never canon, because they were; they were a lower level of canon, as per the official canon levels determined by Lucasfilm at that time. Now there is just one level of canon, and everything is either canon or it isn't. The old EU, now called Legends, is no longer canon.

At any rate, the arguing about canon in here has gone on long enough. As a reminder, here are our forum rules on this.

3) Canon - 7SA Forum Policy

We’ve updated our canon policy ("canon" = official continuity) again in light of the changes related to the new Story Group and the Star Wars canon structure. There has now been official confirmation made via an announcement on April 25th, 2014 by Lucasfilm on starwars.com (HERE).

The official Disney / Lucasfilm position on canon has changed with the announcements regarding the Story Group. Now, essentially, instead of there being multiple levels of canon (and everything having a place within one of those levels), there is just one level of canon, and things either are or aren't canon. What has now been officially confirmed is that all of the movies will be canon, and so will be theRebels and The Clone Wars TV shows. Expanded Universe material (novels, comics, games, etc.) that will come out after this point will be canon as well, but the EU material that came out before the announcement will not be canon. However, they have stated that they will continue to use that existing EU material for ideas (places, characters, storylines, etc.).

Important - things to note regarding our canon policy and rules in the new films forums:
- Arguments about canon in any thread are not allowed.
- The Clone Wars and Rebels TV show discussion needs to be limited to the thread for that, and needs to tie into the ST.
- Discussion about EU novels, games, etc. needs to be limited to the thread for that, and needs to tie into the ST.
- There should be no expectations placed on posters in debates to be familiar with / a fan of the TV shows or novels (or any other aspect of SW), but there should also be nothing saying that only the movies count.
- Posters should not be ridiculed for having the preferences that they have, nor should the official canon announcements be used as evidence of "victory".

 

If the storygroup had disected the whole EU into New Canon and Legends, it would have taken ages to come clean. By wiping it all they have a clean slate and full creative freedom. The storygroup said that going forward certain pieces of EU, be it characters, places or even whole plotlines will be lifted from Legends into Canon, similar to Coruscant (invented by Zahn) has been put into the prequels or Dathomir and the Nightsisters (introduced in the abysmal Courtship of Princess Leia) were made canon through TCW. This process has already begun in the new Novels. In Tarkin for example Luceno refers to Characters and whole segments of his previous, now legends books, most notably Darth Plagueis of course. We can expect a lot more of the Old EU being recycled or pasted into the new canon as seen fit by the storygroup. I think that among the Pre OT and TOR stuff is the most likely Legends matererial that will eventually be "pardoned" into canon. The Post ROTJ EU will mostly likely be completely rewritten...


PS: I think that another reason for the total Wipe of the old EU was to minimize such arguements that have arisen in this thread. It's basically: Everything that was before is gone, deal with it. Eventually some handpicked stuff will appear again as canon, rejoice...

 

Why canon't we all just agree to disagree.
See what I did there?

 

They probably have other plans for those stories. To me that sounds like dozens of potential new novels to tell the stories of the Big 3 during that 30 year span.

 

I prefer a visual media like animation or comics.

 

Me too, honestly, except I don't read the comics either so I would say "like live action or animation". I love reading, but somehow in the case of SW I just think it works much better in a visual, on-screen format. I've read five SW EU novels (ones that are now Legends), and that was enough for me.

 

Trying to decide if I want to read Dark Disciple or not. I have no attachment whatsoever to Quinlan Vos. Asajj Ventress is a cool character, and I think her ambiguity plays well as a story, but I never saw all of Clone Wars, so context may be lost on me

 

I've got you beat I've read like around 3 SW EU novels and that was back in the 90s.

yeah SW is at it's best in live action or animation which is why the wait for more of that is getting annoying, in 2 weeks there is Lego Droid Tale Episode 2 and then in either September/October Rebels comes back. Seriously hope that netflix rumor is true so that we get even more plus add a 2nd animated show and then we'll be good. PS yes I'm greedy for more SW.

 

I'm about to start Dark Disciple, and from what I've read of reviews, it's definitely the best new canon novel.

 

http://www.starwars.com/news/details-revealed-for-upcoming-paperback-rise-of-the-empire

 

Finally picked up Lando#1 and Star Wars#7

7 was ok and it was cool to see Obi-Wan but I didn't really feel satisfied, it was the kind of story that you could easily condense to 4 pages and not feel like I've missed anything. I know that it's a pretty bad time for Obi-Wan but the woe is me, everything is awful schtick was little much, it didn't feel like Obi-Wan. I hope if we get more Obi-Wan stories they give him his dry wit back as opposed to just being dry. Put it this way, I put down the comic twice to do something else and it's only 20 pages long......Lando on the other hand I thought was great and is definitely my favourite so far of all the comics (that might be because it's impossible to not read it with the voice of mr Billy Dee) Whereas with Kenobi I bemoaned the fact that it dragged out not much at all, I feel very much like the Calrissian book could have just been 20 pages of Lobot and Lando not doing anything but sat arguing over a drink and it would have still been something I want to read. I enjoyed the chat between them much and it's given me a whole new perspective of Lobot. Hopefully that is something they leave time to do in issue 2 and don't fall into the trap Leia did of having an awesome opener with some good interplay between Leia and Evaan to sidelining that aspect almost completely.

In regard to art #7 was a solid comic but again Lando#1 wins out for me, the panels felt cleaner and better composed which I feel is important in sequential art. You need to be able to look at a page and know where your eye is supposed to focus. On a technical level there isn't anything wrong with the Kenobi issue but the pages felt so full of detail it gets a bit cluttered.
In a way the art style of Lando has a similar feel to the old Cam Kennedy Boba Fett comics. Obviously way more movie accurate than his but the colouring has that similar extremely stylised yet atmospheric look that was signature to those books and the bizarreness of the aliens is refreshing. I love the look they are going for here. Every panel feels perfectly composed in a simple yet more cinematic way.

 

It's almost like JJ is keeping the details of them hidden, as if in some enigmatic case or something.

 

1. Finally, we get a pre-Rebels Hera Syndulla story. I guess it's even before A New Dawn.
2. So we have now the second appearance of Count Vidian.
3. But Rae Sloane beats him. This is now her what, third or fourth apearance in the new canon? It seems more and more to me that LSG wants to set her up as a major player in the new canon. Now she is even present during the Battle of Endor.

Seems that these three short stories have ties to A New Dawn and Tarkin, which are also in that book.

 

"THE LEVERS OF POWER by Jason Fry
As Imperial and Rebel forces clash on and above the Forest Moon of Endor, Admiral Rae Sloane commands from the bridge of the Star Destroyer Vigilance. At a time where the stakes could not be higher, Sloane works to protect the Death Star and ensure Imperial victory, all too aware of the uncertain future for the Empire that may lie in the aftermath of the battle."

ooh, intriguing. She was the one in New Dawn, right?

 

Yep, and she also will be in Aftermath.

 

StarWarsBooks ‏@DelReyStarWars 3h3 hours ago
@clubjade Each of the shorts stands alone. Though "Bottleneck" could be considered a bridge story between TARKIN and A NEW DAWN.

StarWarsBooks ‏@DelReyStarWars 3h3 hours ago
@DarthSpiriah The #RotE shorts are each longer than the short stories that have been featured in SW Insider.