New Republic Capital Ships - still sorting out the mess... (Fleet Junkies- HO!)

Personally, I think the VSD is a very old design, and given that the NR has made advances in Ship design, a ship of similar design to the VSD but with a newer and better superstructure and power core will most definitely best the Victory. That's why a Bothan Assault Cruiser could equal a VSD though it's smaller.

Personally, I think the class Mon Mothma and Elegos A'kla belong to are fairly multipurpose and suited to the hunt. Grav-well projectors and a fair bit of weaponry should give it an edge. Am I right to think that they have more firepower than the old Dominators?

As for the GFFA, don't count it building any mega ships for some time. Given the losses at the Battle of Coruscant and the Battle of Mon Calamari, we'd be lucky if a Mon Cal Mediator class cruiser will be named as "Admiral Ackbar". Unless, the next Star Defender out of the drydock is renamed "Admiral Ackbar". There's probably one in the drydock now at least. The government is likely to divert lots of resources to rebuilding, though the fleet strength is likely to be maintained given that the vacuum in power left behind by the Yuuzhan Vong who destroyed lots of infrastructure required to weave the galaxy together.

 

Even the NR, who by the end of the Civil War could draw on the talents of many species, obviously found talent a difficult thing to replace. Ackbar retires. This little nobody Sovv comes up as his replacement. Along with a bunch of obviously less than brilliant Sullustans like Munn filling in the mid-level flag ranks. Wedge Antilles, despite being primarily a starfighter officer, proves to be superior to the other Fleet Officers left enough that he is not reactivated as the Commander of Starfighters (which would probably be equal in rank to his actual position), but he is given the Third Fleet Group!!!! When you have just three fleet group commander billets to fill, and you can't find a 3rd officer from Fleet Command suitable for the job, your talent pool is real thin...

Soov's election was I presume a political one. After all, with the peace with the Empire, who needs a hotshot Supreme Commander. Sovv did a pretty good job keeping the peace and hunting pirates but he was no genious.

Did you realize how many Sullistians (Sovv, Muun, Yeel) and Bothans (Traest, Ba'tra) got very importrant posts. It was probably the doing of Fey'lya and Niuk Niuv(Did I spell the guy's name right).

I always believed the allout push Imperials did on Shadowhand was very silly. They took territories fast but the casualties were too high that as soon as the attacks came to a halt, they would not have the numbers to defend that territory. Thrawn on the other hand, got very little casualties while reclaiming sectors.

 

One wouldn't be able to see orbital vessels from the surface during the daytime; I think it's simply a liberty taken by the game designers, so the players can actually see the ISDs.

 

Sovv is a interesting choice for Supreme Commander. Even though we don't know his early career in the Alliance and New Republic, I don't see him as a fleet commander. He was probably some desk officer in Fleet Command that was good at organization and the like.

I actually feel bad for Sovv alot. He was put into a job that did not suit him and he was constantly dealing with interference from the Senate and Chief of State.

--Adm. Nick

 

Trouble with Sovv was he had a bad boss, an idiot at that and a moronic Rasputinic council full of worm tougues. He had able commanders under him at least, which helped with the war against the Yuuzhan Vong, not the least that the veteran commanders of the Galactic Civil War returned to assist him. One cannot count him as an equal to Ackbar or Traest Krefey, but at least, he helped reorganize the NRF after the defeat at Coruscant.

 

GrandAdmiralJello

I think that was Nawara Ven, commenting about the Errant Venture in Specter of the Past. Mind you, Terrik's people were operating an ISD on a crew much, much smaller than even a skeleton Imperial crew. What he calls a design flaw is likely just Booster being too cheap or broke to hire enough employees to keep her in fighting shape.

I did a little figuring on that Star Destroyer pic.

I live about 5 miles from the airport, so I commonly see jets taking off and landing, and they're roughly the size of the ISDs in the picture. I don't know their actual altitude when they're over my house, but I took an arbitrary 2000 and 5000 foot altitude, divided that by the length of a 747 (150 feet), and multiplied by the length of an ISD. I got some fairly rough numbers, about 13 miles up for the 2000 foot number, and about 33 miles up for the 5000 foot number. Don't take those too seriously, but I think that Star Drstroyer is within planetary atmosphere.

It's low orbit, low enough to be in the atmosphere, but if they're moving under power, then probably not so close that they can't escape planetary gravity.

On the other hand, ISDs may in fact have repulsor systems for atmospheric flight.

And on the third hand, maybe these aren't baseline ISDs.

 

In posting the question as to which was the most effective design, I was curious to see how many others regarded the ISD as the pinnacle. I can't see how it can be bested. The VSD may have been in service longer, as has the Corellian Corvette and a handful of others, but nothing has the complete package like the ISD. Aesthetically it is superb, its ratio of size to weapons is more impressive than any other vessel and it carries an inordinate number of support craft and troops.

As for naming a ship the Admiral Ackbar, shouldn't it simply be named the Ackbar? I named a Star Defender the Ackbar for an RPG.

As for Sovv, in my opinion he was intended to be a puppet of the senate. They were moving into a time when they were downsizing the fleet and hoping for a more peaceful era. The political machinations of the senate are such that, after having a strong and brilliant supreme commander for so long, they would have drooled at the prospect of having one they could manipulate.

 

While ISD's were the pinnacle of military technology at the time they were built, they were impractical in the sense that they were packed to the gunwales with crewers who were necessary to ensure that every moving part of the ISD was in working order. The ships lacked automation, and they were said to be (not just in HoT, but also in sourcebooks and at least once in the NJO) to have far too many design errors, faulty parts, or potential mechanical failures to be able to function the way they claim to.

Other than that, they seem to be able to get knocked out of space by even a slight breeze. We've seen them get taken down by single fighters, desparately out-classed ships, and small amounts of sabotage. A squadron of coralskippers or a flight of b-wings can and have shredded fully-functional ISDs. ISD captains admit that the MC-80 was a superior vessel in combat. Their shield's weren't particularly effective for a ship of its size, and the entire backside of it is an undefended blindspot with minimal armor and plenty of critical systems to shoot up. Oh, and their weapons have that nasty habit of overheating and exploding after a short period of use. Perhaps they have simply been mistreated by authors of the EU, but we haven't been given much evidence of that.

 

Borleias:

Well said. Palpatine, in both pre-Endor and post-insanity states, seemed to operate under the delusion that since the galaxy was a big place, it had to be positively teeming with Thrawns and Covells and Veers-types.

His overconfidence really was his weakness afterall. Well, that and the fact that he didn't fully appreciate how much his own people hated him. Which I guess is a form of overconfidence too.


Oh, before I forget. It isn't impossible that Thrawn did, indeed, have a staff of senior officers with him aboard the Chimaera. For plot reasons, there was never really any need to sit through one of their meetings in the same vein as we never saw the planning stages for Endor in Return of the Jedi.

Nick:

That is so awesome!


I'd love to see a Viscount named the Admiral Ackbar in the near future. Then again, I've been waiting for an ImpStar named the Grand Admiral Thrawn forever too...


Kris & Joruus:

All good points. The ISD really is a magnificent design. After all of these years, she's still more well-rounded and out-and-out predatory than nearly any other vessel I can think of.

I picked the VSD because--despite the Imperial's amazing success--it has yet to be genuinely replaced in the Imperial Fleet. For a ship of its size, there has yet to be a satisfactory replacement. Well, in the Empire, at least. The Republic/Alliance seems to have gotten the BAC to work out very well for them, and the Nebula and Defender-classes seem to have caught on to a greater or lesser degree too. During the latter parts of the Galactic Civil War, anyway.

But despite all of that, the Vic keeps soldiering on. Pellaeon seems to prefer using them in a two-to-one ratio to ISDs in the Imperial Starfleet, after all. I wonder what their current incarnation is cabable of...

EDIT:

7-7-7:

We also see Imperials smashing entire Yuuzhan Vong task forces singlehandedly, might I remind you. And certain ImpStar captains admitted that Mon Cal crews were generally superior space-farers, not that the MC80 was a superior combat vessel.

 

Brett:

It is cool, isn't it.

Of course, Thrawn himself is more than deserving of a ship named after him. It would be awesome to have a SSD Thrawn's Fist and a Star Defender Ackbar working together to face the new threats in the post NJO trilogy.

Under the joint command of Grand Admiral Pellaeon and Admiral Traest Kre'fey.

Ah, a fleet junkies wet dream.

--Adm. Nick

 

Nah, the wet dream would be to see them FIGHT.

And not with Pellaeon and Kre'fey. Maybe with Pellaeon and Ackbar.

And not in ships of those names. Maybe the Reaper instead

 

Nick:

That would, indeed, be pretty darned awesome. Let's all collectively cross our fingers for something of that nature in the post-NJO.



However, given the late Grand Admiral's aversion to superweapons (and ships, apparently), I think it would be more appropriate to name an Imperial-class after him. Or maybe even some sort of interdictor, given his fondness for them in his strategems.

Joruus:

Like Nick and I've been saying, a post-Darksaber series focused on the actual Galactic Civil War would be the ****. Reaper versus Lusankya, Pellaeon versus Ackbar...


Damn.

 

Brett:

I like the idea of an Interdictor cruiser being named after Thrawn. He really did like those damn things.

As for the Pellaeon/Ackbar clashes, you and I have been talking about them for almost a whole year my friend!

If only someone would of listened to us.

--Adm. Nick

 

Yeah, I just can't decide if a Dominator or an Immobilizer 418 would be more appropriate... He seems to have used more '418s, but the Dominator is a more impressive looking vessel overall... Hard to say.

But yeah. Why has no author yet written The Books for us?! Bring to me The Zahn!

 

The Galactic Alliance definitely wouldn't name a ship after Thrawn, and the Imperial Remnant would be hard-pressed to name even a cargo vessel after one of their ally's most hated enemies.

 

For the best ship, I think we need to look at several catergories. For instance, you can't compare a Corellian Gunship or a Nebulon-B2 to an ISD. The ISD will defeat either ship in a straight up fight. But the DP20 and the Nebulon-B2 aren't designed to fight ISDs one-on-one.

As far as multi-purpose ships go, I think that the ISD provides an excellent mix of firepower, fighter capacity, and troop capacity. They're really unparalelled in that regard

As far as pure heavy combat ships go, I'd give it to the Mon Cal Star Cruisers. The original Star Cruisers may not have as much firepower as an ISD, or even a VSD, but they have more staying power, which is more important in a slugging match. All the weapons in the world don't help if you can't kill your opponent before he breaches your shields and hull. The later Star Cruisers combined the tough shields of the older classes with tough armor and a more powerful array of weapons, not to mention a shape better suited to combat, making them even more dangrous opponents. Also, the Mon Cal cruisers' fighter complements were generally superior to that of their opponents, giving them a further edge.

For heavy cruisers, I'd say its a toss-up between the Majestic-class and the Vindicator-class. I think that in a ship-to-ship battle, they'd actually be fairly evenly matched, since although the Vindicator has more weapons, the Majestic's are more powerful. Add fighters in though, and I'd say its the Majestic, due to its superior fighter complement.

Medium cruisers goes to the Hapes Nova-class battlecruiser.(I know, you're saying, "but that's not a medium cruiser!" I put it in that catergory due to its size and weaponry.) The Belarus- and Strike-class cruisers are more heavily armed, but the Hapes Nova-class carries more fighters.

Light cruisers I'd say go to the Sacheen. While its not as heavily armed as the Carrack, its fighter complement again tips the scales in its favor.

As an aside, the MC40 cruiser is kind of confusing for me. I have two sets of stats for it, and how I class it and how it compares to the other ships really depends on which stats I use. The first set of stats gives the MC40: 14 turbolaser cannons, 18 ion cannons, and 12 fighters. The second set gives it: 20 turbolaser cannons, 15 turbolaser batteries, 8 ion cannons, 2 concussion missile launchers, and between 12 and 48 fighters. If I use the first set, then I have to class the MC40 either as a light cruiser, or a pretty pitiful medium cruiser. If I go with the second set, then I have to class it as a medium cruiser that could probably wipe the walls with a Belarus, Hapes Nova, or Strike with relative ease.

Now, going on to Escort Frigates: I have to give this one to the Nebulon-B2, which according to the stats I have has: 18 laser cannons, 18 turbolaser cannons, 6 ion cannons, and 24 fighters. I think the Corona-class comes a close second, but I feel that while the Corona is more than a match for a Nebulon-B, the Nebulon-B2's improved array of weaponry is enought to offset the 12 fighter advantage of the Corona.

Now, I haven't forgotten about the Lancer, but it wasn't really designed for the same thing as the other frigates. Since the only other dedicated anti-starfighter ship I know of is the Ranger-class gunship, I'll compare those two in a class of their own.

Now, the stats I have for the Ranger give it 16 quad laser cannons, 4 heavy turbolaser cannons, and 4 concussion missile launchers. Given that the major failing of the Lancer-class is its lack of weapons capable of hurting capital ships, I give this one to the Ranger-class.

Now for corvettes. I'm going to lump corvettes and gunships in the same catergory, since the seem to be used for the same role(With the exception of the Ranger-class, that is. I'm also not including the Corellian Corvettes modified to carry fighters).

I think that the best corvette/gunship is the CEC DP20 gunship. While its the smallest, it also mounts the best mix of anti-fighter and capital ship weaponry.

While the Warrior-clas

 

Personally, I think that just his name would work best. The Grand Admiral Thraw. Having the name in there sounds kinda Russian, but I think it works relatively well.

And interdictors would be interesting ships to command, wouldn't they? Such a unique role on the battlefield...

EDIT:

Darth Guy:

I was, of course, hoping the Empire would name a ship after Grand Admiral Thrawn.


Grim Reapoer:

Nice post, I must say. Gotta love them Vindicators. They never get much publicity, but damn if they aren't badassed little ships.

I'd like to give an honorable mention award to the Dreadnaught-class heavy cruiser, too. They're ancient and lacking in speed, maneuverability, and have a disproportionally huge crew, but they're some of the most aesthetically-pleasing vessels to ever come out of the Star Wars universe, in my opinion. That, and much like the Victory-class, they're still kicking to this day.

That said, they seem to have been nearly all but replaced by ships like the Majestic and the Vindicator, though.

 

They've only got 20 quad guns, if the ship guides were accurate. Actually, N/EGVV differs in that respect. A Carrack half its size outguns it.

The 'dictor tactic Rogriss used in Solo Command against that ramming Vicstar was fun.

Now, the stats I have for the Ranger give it 16 quad laser cannons, 4 heavy turbolaser cannons, and 4 concussion missile launchers. Given that the major failing of the Lancer-class is its lack of weapons capable of hurting capital ships, I give this one to the Ranger-class

Vector Prime's Helska battle said the Ranger Gunship opened up with "dozens of laser batteries" so that can't be right.

 

Waaaaay back in this thread, we hammered out some tentative stats for the Ranger-class gunship... I can't remember what they were, or where in the thread they are anymore.

 

I think this is where I got the Ranger-class stats

EDIT:

That's GRIN_Reaper, Brett.

I agree that the Dreadnaughts were nice ships, but I think that while they have more firepower, they don't have the same staying power as a Vindicator or Majestic.

Now that I think about it, the Assault Frigate might be a better anti-fighter platform than the Ranger OR Lancer, since it has 15 laser cannons, 20 quad laser cannons, and 15 turbolaser batteries as well.

 

In any case, though, I'd have to agree that the ISD is the most dangerous combat vessel ever devised. Ounce per ounce, she has the most lethal potency of any starship in the galaxy--she's practically stuffed to the gills with guns.

Actually, the Defender has higher density (80% of gunpower and supposedly more shields) on maybe 70% of the length with probably a proportionate decrease in height and width.

But I think the ISD is the best in terms of balance. Yes, I've heard of those thousands of flaws. But all those flaws apparently weren't enough to keep the NR from building more like the Rejuvenator (the first one, not the Rejuvenator-class, or the two being built at Bilbringi during Star-by-Star, or them lasting out there for 6-10 years (10 years for Daala's little 4-ISD flotilla) and remaining operational. That implies none of the flaws are critical.

There is a lot of crew on the ISD, but I suspect most of them are specialists required to keep a ship working for six years, in a row.

The DSD and the so called 'New Class' ships tend to have higher combat-density, but their lives are pitifully short - 5 months. That implies the crew can't keep the darn thing working for over 5 months. They probably overpowered the reactors and other systems to take strains that by ISD standards they weren't supposed to take. Not enough that there is immediate danger of explosion, just such that their safe operational time between refit is greatly shortened.

But then, the NR is supposed to be a democracy, and after five months of action at the front, they want long breaks. So perhaps the NR compromise suits them.

Remember, design is all about compromise. A battle between cost and top-of-the-performance. A battle between longevity and sheer peak power.

 

That's not an issue with Verpines and Kloperians around.

 

I think the New Class ships was the beginning of the complete departure from Fusion reactors to Solar Ionisation reactors. Thus giving them more power and allowing them to feature a greater weapons array compared to the previous ships.