New Theory! Palpatine Created Anakin & Luke!!!

But you gotta remember that everything in Star Wars was created from realistic situations and things even based on GL's own personal life. That's one of the main reasons it is so successful and the world relates to it so easily. Star Wars is reality disguised in fantasy basically.

 

Although I think you can use that quote on many things here - especially on the technical things, it falls short in this aspect. Lucas tried to create a myth. The myth of the Iliad, which you brought up in another thread, explains how love may not always be enough. The bad guys win in the end. Not all stories end well. In SW love won, but not for Anakin. He hid beneath a veil that he himself thought was love. If it had been he would have listned to her and do what was best for THEM and not his HIM!

I think TheJediReturns is spot on here!!

 

Actually, love won for Anakin in the end. Luke showed him the error of his ways. Luke showed him why he lost everything. As Lucas put it, children teach us to love unconditionally. No, not all stories end well. But I'm talking about this story, not every other one. Anakin learned to love the right way and in that, love wins as it defeats evil. That's why you have that last bit at the end of the ROTS novelization about how evil always wins, but love can never be extinguished as it is like a candle that can ignite the stars. It symbolizes that it is love that ultimately wins the day.

 

The hope is for the rebels.

Bane

 

I'll have to yield on this one I'm afraid. Seems you are right. In the PT, if you believe that you can watch is as two trilogies, you're above argument is not valid. But as a saga you are absolutely correct. I just first thought you meant that good always conquers evil - which is not true - but for SW it is.

I don't get this part as it seems awfully contradictory!? Evil always wins, but "love wins as it defeats evil"? How can evil always win if love - good - wins?

 

It means that the nature of man which has a tendency to go towards evil and darkness, will always be the dominating factor in evil winning. That so long as greed, anger, hate, lust for power and the like exist, evil will always win. But it is in the short term. Love can give hope and light against the darkness. It's like Lucas said, it's easier to do things the easy way than the more difficult path. The easy path gets the job done, but it will probably compromise you and everything you believe in.

It's part of the balance of life. Good and evil will always go back and forth, in terms of dominance. Once side will win and then the other will take back what is lost. Before repeating.

 

Fair enough. I'm not sure I believe that as a discourse for humanity - but if that is what GL interprets it to be, then OK...

 

I'm mostly in the Games board because I tend not to care about these kinds of deep discussions. But lately I have and after reading this thread from beginning to end, there are two thoughts on my mind:

1. I really don't think the films are intended to generate this much discussion. They're for a fun two hours with popcorn in your lap, and maybe some thoughts in hindsight for 5 minutes afterwards. This is crazy. But nevertheless, here I am reading this whole thread from beginning to end. Man, we're such a bunch of geeks!

2. After thinking the whole thing through, both this thread and the movies, I have come to the realization that if an epilogue by the name of Episode VII was ever made, I would like it to be about Luke going against Yoda's dying wish, and not passing on what he had learned. Instead putting his lightsaber on his shelf, stop using the Force and destroying all remains of the teachings of the ways of the Force, then buys a condo in Coruscant and zapps through the channels of Bright Center Telecom and Broadcasting (Coruscant, the bright center of the universe, get it? Hehe ). Man should never be endowed with the power of gods.

 

That's funny and intersting. That's one that's never been contemplated before. What if Luke just like...retired?

If I have caused someone to read an entire thread from start to finish, then I guess I have done my job. You're not a geek. Just a person looking for answers to some of life's riddles. And I think Star Wars IS meant to be that deep. How else could George Lucas get you to watch the same movie 100 trillion times and re-buy it another trillion?

And I will re-iterate here once again because it really hit me doing some random thinking earlier today: Palaptine KNEW and WAS orchestrating EVERYTHING from behind the scenes because that is the only true thing that makes any real sense! You really see this come alive in ROTS. Watch it very closely. VERY closely.

 

sorry if this has already been answered, but the only thing i dont understand in this whole essay is, how the hell did he manage to impregnate them? what did he put something on their toilet seats or something lol?

 

He learned how to create life from Darth Plageuis, killed him off and the rest is history! I think Tom Cruise has learned this trick also as of late.lol

 

I prefer to think of it as OCD as opposed to geekness

 

This thread is still alive. I'm kinda surprised, but it is pretty entertaining.

Have a nice day.

 

Very interesting thoughts - kind of thoughts I have, too. Maybe this would be worth a thread of its own?
I watched ROTJ last night and found one very interesting line Yoda was saying just before he died: ".. twilight is upon me and soon night must fall - that is the way of all things and that is the way of the force."

Sorry for going a little bit off topic.

 

I read through all of the first page of your thred, TJR.

The theory is very intriguing... and ultimately it is up for the specific fan to decide to accept it or not. We all have our own personal Star Wars viewpoint. That is yours.

Later, I will make an attempt to at least read-skim the next six pages. Then, my official thoughts will come in a reply.

 

First off, if it was George's original plan to have Palpatine confess to Anakin his true origins, then we can only assume that is what George Lucas himself prefers to be Anakin's origins. He decided to leave it ambiguous, but who's to say he changed his own personal opinion?

Therefore, if nothing else, Sidious crafting Anakin using midi-chlorians is very possibly an elusive G-Canon. That is the highest canon, and is incorperated into Star Wars without a doubt from anyone.

Indirectly speaking, Darth Sidious is Anakin's father. The boy was not conceived the traditional way, yet who else are we to pin the title to, excluding the man who manipulated midi-chlorians within the slave woman? No one. The Force is not a person... it is an energy. So it is safe to say that if anyone is Anakin's father, if anyone were (this is only a half-joke,) to morally pay child-support alongside Shmi, that would be Darth Sidious.

I can agree with this part. Call me a heretic, but I myself like hidden twists in movies. Hidden twists that can only be revealed when someone sits down and thinks about the plot. Here is where things get very heretical on behalf of your theory, TJR.

Did Palpatine create Luke, too?

I'm not so sure. It is an interesting thought, and puts a whole new perspective on the entire saga of movies. There is something a little ... off ... about Anakin conceiving the twins. Though I think this is due to a timeline inconsistency rather than a deliberate plot point. Apparently his absence was due to fighting in the Clone Wars. How he found time to slip back to Coruscant and have sex with Padme, and then slip back out to fight in the Clone Wars, I have no idea.

If this was a deliberate action on Lucas' account, then there is the problem of Anakin not realizing why Padme is pregnant at a time that makes no sense to him personally. Although, Anakin did seem very untrusting of Obi-Wan... for instance, when Padme suggests they ask Obi-Wan for help, Anakin responds something like: "We don't need his help."

Did Anakin ever suspect Obi-Wan of having an affair with Padme? It's likely to an extent he suspected. You should always be suspicious of a best friend who hangs around your wife when you're not around.

Could Palpatine have framed Obi-Wan? Impregnate Padme the same way he impregnated Shmi, and then purposefully create an initial distrust between Anakin and Obi-Wan?

How much influence did Palpatine really have over the entire population of the galaxy?

Here is a man that has become a deity because of effort and natural power. Needless to say, every planet in the galaxy was to Palpatine like a piece on a chess board... Coruscant being the King, of course.

It's very possible that the Vader suit was in existance at a convenient time because Sidious had forseen what was going to happen... or had a strong hunch that at some point the suit might come in handy. Things like that cost dozens of millions of credits, undeniably.

Safe to say that you don't spend millions upon millions of dollars on something you "might" need in the future. That is what leads me to believe that Palpatine was certain he would need that mechanical suit eventually. Having said that, I don't think that Sidious knew all the details thereof (Anakin fighting Obi-Wan, getting delimbed and then set on fire.)

Like you said, TJR, Palpatine probably just saw the broad strokes, and not the finer details. Which we could argue this inability led to his demise... via Luke deciding not to turn to the Dark Side at the climax of Return of the Jedi.

Palpatine was so sure of himself, was so sure that he had become the molder of everyone's fate, that he forgot the true molder of everything: The Force.


* I do think it is G-Canon that Palpatine initiated the conception of Anakin Skywalker.

* There is nothing to support or denote Palpatine impregnating Padme. On a personal level, I like the idea.

* We can all agree on the terms that led to the final Sith downfall.

 

To answer one of your queiries, it is inferred Anakin & Padme conceived Luke & Leia during episode22 of Clone Wars. They even say so on the commenatry.

 

DarthWolvo,
The Clone Wars also showed Grievous spinning around on his head like a breakdancer. I'm not saying those stories don't count. But they're not so much like SWisUs said, "G-Canon". I can't go on anything except what's in the films. That's all you can really rely on when dealing with these more hidden plot points.

SWIsUs,
YOU GET IT! Thank you for elaborating on that in more detail. You're looking with open eyes indeed. That is actually a critical scene when Padme tells Anakin about her pregnancy. That is the jump off point for every event after. You kind of get the true status of everything in that one little scene. His real feelings for Obi Wan, his suprise but yet the slight confusion about her being pregnant and the secrecy of their relationship.
You're right. There is something "off" about the way the scene plays and it's on purpose, but most people don't look that far into it. Good job!

 

well there is nothing in the films that suggest Palpatine created Luke so I dont really get what the point of this topic is then.

 

its a fun thing to think about thats the point

 

There is plenty in the films to suggest that Luke was created by Palpatine. You just don't want to dig that deep into it. I can understand that is hard for a lot of people to swallow, but this has been the journey of Star Wars. Nothing is as it seems. Everyone wants everything to be black & white and simple like it used to be and i think this is why so many have trouble with the prequels because they changed that whole landscape and made everything really grey. And believe me, as time goes on, those films will reveal to be even more grey. This is as life is though when you think about it. You grow up a child and the world is innocent and you accept what your elders tell you as truth. Then as you grow older and mature you develop and learn more about the world and find out it isn't all innocent and people tell lies and then you grow older and become a full fledged adult and you find out the world is about secrets and deciet at every turn and you grow old and finally retreat back to the things that were innocent to escape what you found out in the real world. This is the journey of Star Wars also. There is more than meets the eye still. Believe it!

 

Yes, but as in life there are some(though rare they are) situations where not everything is grey, and there's a very simple solution. The films are like these times in the OT. Ther'es also very little that says Luke was created by Palpatine, and if it is there, it's far less than what outright states Anakin Skywalker is Luke's father. The only way for Anakin to be his father is if he is genetically because from a more emotional standpoint Owen would be Luke's father considering he raised him.

 

Exactly.

I must say I find TheJediReturns comments quite patronising.

View the vast majority of my posts and you will find if anything I tend to look into these films in too much detail.

That being said, the fact you believe you have found "evidence" that Palpatine created Luke is irrelevant, it doesnt mean it is actually the case and anyone who looks hard enough will suddenly see it.

I am of the thought that Darth Plagueis did create Anakin Skywalker, I think the films tell us this much without ever making it blatently obvious for the normal movie goer. However the whole point of Star Wars is that Anakin's love for his son brings him back from the dark side. He sacrifices his own life to save his son. Now you are telling me this has been swept aside because really Anakin and Luke were both created by Sidious (who in the films as much as admits he isnt powerful enough to manipulate the midichlorians to create life???)

I would love for yo to lay out your evidence for this.

 

This is all OK. You say there is plenty of evidence in your films to suggest that Luke was created by Palpatine. Give me three bulletproof evidence that this is so!? That is, according to my literature professor, all you need to build a thesis on...

 

I don't believe in this theory, and frankly I never will. I don't think anyone could persuade me otherwise (apart from Lucas).

Anakin was conceived by the force, thus earning the title of "The Chosen One". It was pure coincidence, IMO. Later on, Qui-Gon was lured by the force so he could seek out this boy with special powers. Anakin joined Qui-Gon and became a Jedi. Later on, Anakin met his girlfriend and porked her a couple of times... y'know, like humans do? As a human being, and a lack of understanding about the force, Anakin fell to the dark side due to his lust for greed. His girlfriend gave birth, thus Luke.

The force was strong with the Skywalker's, so Luke inherited deeper, within powers which were later unleashed. The Emperor fell, as did Vader, and that's that.

These hideous theories are quite pathetic and non-logical. There's nothing to support them.