NJO in Star Wars Insider #57 (spoilers)

I may be wrong, but I could have sworn that Corran was called a Jedi master at one point during Ruin.

I must say that this was a great article. Hell, this was the best Insider period since the Wizards takeover.

 

Corran is definately a Knight. He hasn't trained anyone, which I believe is an indicator, and every Dramatis Personae says Knight

 

Great article, Dan!

Your recent SW Insider piece, along with Abel Pena's & Juan Schwartz' "Emperor's Hands" piece, have generated more buzz on the forums than I think I've seen in a long, long . . . long,long time.

Here's hoping you keep them coming!!!!

 

Is anyone else as dissapointed with the Luke, Mara, Ben picture as I am?

The idea behind the image is awesome. Mara, Luke, and Ben together. Luke and Ben look great...but wWHAT is Mara doing? I know that Mara has been quite the...raunch, but don't you think she'd be mothering her child, not Luke? I'm dying to see Mara act more feminine than Luke for once.

And why did the artist use the exact same image of Shannon from the Insider cover from some 2 years ago. Hell, go check out Shannon-Baksa.com for some REAL pictures of this beautiful model! (that, or Jade Crusades!) And to top it off - Mara is wielding the same pink lightsaber she used when she was a teenager. Riigghhhttt. Are we supposed to figure that, 40 years after she lost her old Emperor's Hand lightsaber that she found her old one, and prefers to use that over Luke (and Anakin's) old one?!

Sorry, just thought I'd rant about that for a while. Is that pic even posted in here? I can't tell - the computer I'm on won't allow me to bring it up.

 

Hey, Dan....yeah....Could you clear up the Tionne matter, if you're not like too busy or something? I can't see why she wouldn't be a Master, since she's taught so many of the students there. If it's just because she isn't that strong in the Force, I gotta take a stance against that. Not everything should be measured by strength. Her knowledge of the Force, and of it's history, is like probably staggering. Heck, when Luke's off saving the galaxy Tionne is on Yavin 4 teaching the next generation how to be Jedi. If anyone deserves to be a Master, it should be her. Specially since Kam is.....

 

Is anyone else as dissapointed with the Luke, Mara, Ben picture as I am?

No, you're not the only one, Mazzic.

I'm dying to see Mara act more feminine than Luke for once.

So am I. First, there was that awful Rambo-esque pic of Mara on the cover of Rebirth, and now this. Would it have killed the artist to have drawn Mara wearing something besides that damn catsuit? UGH!

 

I liked how Ben was drooling in that picture.

On a side note, thank you for clarifying those things, Dan! It's always nice when questions actually get answered by those in the know.

 

> Hey, Dan....yeah....Could you clear up the Tionne matter,
> if you're not like too busy or something? I can't see why she
> wouldn't be a Master, since she's taught so many of the
> students there.

I hear what you're saying, but Tionne's classification as a Knight came straight from Lucasfilm.

Also, from another thread...

> In Insider 57 it lists Kubis Nu as the Rodian Jedi
> that died on Eriadu, but in EOV, im pretty sure it's
> spelled Kelbis Nu, so can anyone clear this up?

The correct name, as printed in REBIRTH for those keeping a Jedi scorecard, is Kelbis Nu. (IIRC it was Kubis in Greg's first manuscript, then it was changed but not caught in time for the INSIDER article.)

Best,
Dan

 

Dan,

How about the Katarn situation. He was Mara's first Jedi Master. She is listed as a Master, yet he's a Knight. Clearly his ordeal through Dark Forces, Dark Forces II and Mysteries of the Sith parallel those of Masters Skywalker and/or Master Durron. And, the small fact that his apprentice went on to become a Master herself.

Why is Katarn merely listed as a Knight. It would seem he's much like Qui-Gon, a nontraditional Jedi. But, even if he's not part of the new Jedi council, Katarn certainly has mastery of the Force and the ways of the Jedi, even if he's since shied away from them after events in Mysteries of the Sith.

 

I've given a theory on that genghis on a few pages back.

But here it is again.

I guess after he went to the darkside, he self demoted himself to just knight because of fear that he or or an apprentices he took would fail and go over to the darkside.

Then his self misery got worse so he left the academy becoming an outcast on his own choice.

Then around SOA or chrystal star, something happens that makes him face his heritage and come back to his knighthood to go after a dark jedi and his force harnessing machine.

After the battle while he had rejoined the order, his fear that his past, and of going over to the darkside would come back to haunt him. He hasn't let himself take on another aprentice(still afraid that he might fail as a master), and not decided to become a master.

It's truly sad how just one little trip of going over to the darkside, has totally interfered with kyle katarn's personal development, . His self esteem of himself very low.

 

You don't "demote" yourself from being a Jedi Master. It's like getting a PhD - once you have it, you shouldn't lose it. Kyle Katarn has gone through as much Jedi/Force ordeals as any Master, and he's come away having mastered his conflicts.

Shouldn't being the key word, I suppose. When it comes to the "will of the Force," anything can be used to explain away inconsistencies.

But, I take issue with the explanation that he somehow "demoted" himself from being a Jedi Master. He can "demote" himself from active duty. He can "demote" himself from not training new apprentices to master-hood. He can even "demote" himself from ever interacting with another Jedi for as long as he lives.

But, he can't necessarily "demote" himself from being a Jedi and/or Jedi Master? That's rather strange, IMO.

 

You never know what is going through kyle katarns processess.

And for all we know mara could have given kyle one of those force Impotence causing speeches.

Mara"Your not a jedi master, you never were" "had you been one you wouldn't have crossed over to the darkside" "Your a big failure" "you'll never amount to anything"

One knows that in psychology negative self-talk, or other dishing out insults or negative talk, can influence someone psychalogically. Which at some point they start to believe the negative talk. They believe that they are a failure.

As for masters demoting themselves actually having precedence in literature, I have seen it before in a few stories about samurai masters(one knows that jedi are based off of samurai way, according to several of the making of starwars books).

example. In one story, where one went on a violent rampage, or practicing secretly forbidden dark arts, but was redeemed by a lesser samurai, shown his mistake. The dark samurai in repentence of his mistake, gave up his title, and went back on a quest of training. He failed the first time, so he began his training anew(Under the samurai who redeemed him). In the hopes that he would someday be ready to take on the honor of masterhood again.

So there are severaly theories on why he might self-demote himself.

 

I think the Kyle Katarn situation might become more clear in the upcoming Jedi Outcast game.

 

Most likely, It will be interesting to hear about him leaving the order.

 

I'm not much of a video game player, so even though I have Dark Forces & Mysteries of the Sith, (but not Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight), I haven't played them at all, (without JK, it's clear I can't play MotS anyways) .

I do have the Graphic Novel trilogy and the radio dramas, plus many, many essential guides, magazine articles, secondary source type books, etc. etc. all dealing with or referencing Kyle.

From my point of view, I don't understand "how" or "when" Kyle Katarn would have ever became a Jedi Master in the first place. I can understand that he "taught" Mara Jade some skills in the Force during the events of Mysteries of the Sith, but does that necessarily equate with being a Jedi Master? Was Luke Skywalker a Jedi Master at the time that he taught Kiro (Marvel) in the ways of the Force, or was Luke merely sharing his knowledge regarding the Force? Is Leia a Jedi Master when she taught her "very young" children the Force techniques that Leia learned from her brother - keeping in mind that Leia never exactly became a Jedi Knight at that time either, (i.e., Crystal Star, among others)? Is the Saurikaar (sp?) a Jedi Master for teaching ten plus Jensaarai (sp?) both Sith and Jedi Force skills/techniques, (i.e., I Jedi)?

I do see parallels between Luke's training under Obi-Wan Kenobi, Yoda, Joruus C'Boaoth and the Clone Emperor/Emperor Reborn WITH Kyle Katarn's training under Rahn. However, in my eyes, Luke's training does appear much more extensive than Kyle's.

However, is that the only difference? Does the quality and/or quantity of training play a part?

Does Kyle Katarn's presumably "frequently interrupted training" from the Praxeum at Yavin 4 play a part? For example, even though Mara had extensive training from both the Emperor and from Luke Skywalker (and arguably from Kyle Katarn) - her "frequently interrupted training" DID bring reprimands from Luke during the Hand of Thrawn Duology, (although Mara did get in her fair share of quality criticism of Luke as well). My impression from the HOT duology was that Mara still needed to complete her training to become a "Jedi Knight" (I also think that opinion is open to lots and lots of argument regarding Mara).

Regarding Kyle ever being a Jedi Master, I don't think there's a clear cut answer. I would submit that we still don't know much about the extent and the quality of Kyle Katarn's training. I do think Kyle has a "bigger place" in the SWEU, and I wouldn't mind seeing Kyle "be" a Jedi Master. However, at this time, without more information, I'm inclined to side with a conservative "Jedi Knight" status for Kyle. Thus, I agree with Dan's take in his SWI article.

 

Good thoughts, ana. I had the honor of talking to dan, and his personal take is that kyle while helping her train, never officially declared himself a master. He was only a knight. He remained a knight until the NJO. Same type of thing as with tionne teaching but never achieving masterhood.

It's sad that one of the first of the new jedi, one trained by a old era jedi master. One who has a been a jedi almost as long as luke has been one, never became a knight. While even being passed up by one of his first trainees.

Though dan did say if anyone can find evidence in the game or manual, a line or something, that proves that kyle's position with mara was more than a knight. He told me to let him know. That he is willing to change his stance, if he can have evidence points towards masterhood. I don't have access to the manuals or the game at the moment what it says.

ghengis can you help, with anything hard evidence besides just idle speculation(It would be appreciated)?

 

could someone post the spects on corran

i still think he is a master the only jedi i could see beating him is luke

 

well Luke or Jerec if the game is set to hard and a novice is playing.

However if Kyle's got a cheat code Luke won't have a chance.

 

Hi all,

I'm the Jedi profiles illustrator on the NJO article in this issue of the Insider.

Never been in here before and it's great to see people's reactions to the look of the characters. Let's see if I can clarify my "view" of these characters.

Firstly, it was nearly impossible to find really good diffinative reference for most of these Jedi. Maybe only about a third of them have been seen drawn somewhere else before. Even those that we have seen before, like Corran Horn, has literally had a least 3 very differnt looks. When you have to draw 48 beloved characters in 14 days and Lucasfilm can't give me diffinative answers to my questions about appearance or ages (boy, were ages hard for them to nail down!), before the deadline, I just had to wing it and talk with fans of the series around me and pick their brains for look ideas. Not for all characters, certainly but quite a few to be sure.

Let's remember that alot of years have passed for many of these characters since the were first introduced. Up to 10 or more for some here. Aging happens to everyone. Hair styles change. People become heavier or slimmer. Scars are left from old battles. Someone grows facial hair. Happens to all of us.

I treated this as a casting session. What seemed right to me and my editors may not seem right to many fans but I'm certain in some other project another artist will draw most of these Jedi a totally different way next time. And that's fine. What's great about novels is you use your own imagination to "cast" these characters as you see them. It's what I had the chance to do here and it was an honor to be selected to do so.

Let me address Corran look first. I went with his image from the cover of the novel of his first appearance, I, JEDI. On that cover he sports light colored hair, maybe blonde and a gotee. Corran is one of my favorite characters in the book and is one of the most noble (and coolest) Jedi in the series. Since Lucas has patterned the Jedi Knights after the Samurai from Japan, I combined the the two looks into one for Corran here.

More in the next post!

 

Hey, what about Kyp having such long hair and sideburns? Where was your inspiration for him?

Jae Angel

 

I love it when the creators post here!

 

In general I thought the images were rather good. Anakin was a bit young in my opinion and has silly hair, but I think that the guy on the Conquest cover was a better version. here he's still young looking, as he was in the Chewbacca thing. Then the rest were good considering some had short one sentence descriptions. However, Tahiri was far from what I envisioned, since I'm thinking of an aged JJK version of her.

 

More from the NJO illustrator:

I saw the Kam Solusar comments. Kam was at least 15 years older than Luke in the Dark Empire series. He had a heavily lined face with silver (or white, or grey) hair back then. Bruce Willis? Sorry. Not even close in the DE books. Never heard that before. Again, this is at a much later point in time now. If he looked weathered then, he going to look more weathered now.

Kyle Katarn. At least 15 years older. I gave him the touch of premature grey to age him. Again, people's looks evolve as they age.

Kyp Durron. This is my Kyp Durron. He had always had a wild but handsome look to him. He had mostly had long jet black hair in the books over the years. If it was short in another book, then he grew it back out. He's mostly out on the fringe doing alot of covert spying or raids on the Vong in the NJO. I don't think he'd be trimming his hair very often. Or showering

Kenth Hammer. Probobly the oldest of the group. He's a retired officer after all. And yes, I was instantly thinking of Tommy Lee Jones here. Good eye!

I only used real actors an a handful of the Jedi here and sought other reference for the rest, but since this was my "casting session", Here's a few others I used as a visual guide:

Zekk- River Phoenix
Ganner Rhysode- Brad Pitt
Kam Solusar- James Colburn
Wurth Skidder- Matt LeBlanc (spelling?)
And the Solo kids of course are a cross of a younger Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher.

Tahiri. It was really a tough call here. I had not read the first Edge of Victory book when drawing her. I think I have a Tahiri facial expression here. I tried to create an unusual hairstyle for her. One: to just give a stand out look to her from the rest and Two: to try and come up with a other-worldly hair design. Like Leia's hair was considered unique in New Hope initially. Or Amidala's many "otherworldly" hairdoos in Ep1. Again, many will disagree. It's cool.

I cut Raynar Thul's hair and and added a little chin fuzz. He's older, cooler in my mind. Glad to see some of the female readers in here agree.

Lastly, I can't stress it enough. Getting correct ages for some of these characters was nearly imposible. Some of it was very vauge. "Teens" or "40's", etc. If someone really looks too old or too young, what can I say? I did the best with the info I had in the time allowed. I still had a blst doing this assignment. Wouldn't you?

When it comes to visualizing great characters that have only been seen in people's minds, it's a no win situation. To those that really disagree, it's cool and I'm sorry but your personal vision is still intact!

To those who like some of them here, thanks! I'm just as pasionate a NJO fan as any here. I worked hard to get as close to what I see (or what I think Lucasfilm wanted to see) as possible.

Peace!

Dan Veesenmeyer

 

Well, gosh, no wonder Zekk was so fine! And Brad Pitt makes a good Ganner, for sure.

Oh, we all get the "Bruce Willis as Kam" from the Union comic series, because he was a dead-ringer for Bruce in there. No question about it!

So, now Kyp is not showering, eh? hehe. I like the long hair on him. I always saw him as a Johnny Depp type though, but it's impossible to match EVERYONE'S idea of the character.

OH! I almost forgot! Were you using James Van Der Beek as the model for Miko Regalia? Because he really looks like him Just thought I'd ask.

Jae Angel

 

Two more things:

I agree with the comment that Anakin looks too young here. Wish I had had the chance to go back and age him by about 4 years or so. Oh, well. There was not alot of time for tweeks. I gave him a more of a buzz cut hair style like the Jedi in the Prequels. And yes, his look on the Conquest cover is awesome.

Looks like I'm way off on Tahiri. Damn! Wish I had gotten thru that Edge of Victory series in time. That'll teach me to let the books pile up on me!

By the way, as I post these comments tonight, I still don't have a copy yet! These scans in the forum here are the first I've seen of the actual page layouts. Show's ya how I rate!