No sympathy for vader

With regards to Anakin and Padme...

It is one thing to feel sympathy for a person. Even a person who, ultimately, turns out to be a terrible person. It is, I think, quite another to make excuses for them.

I think it is worth considering what Anakin feared more... Padme's death.. or the pain Anakin would feel if Padme should die. These are two DIFFERENT things, although they are (of course) related. Personally, I think Anakin feared the latter. In other words, it was really "all about Anakin". If Anakin truly honored...loved...respected Padme, he would KNOW there were prices she would not WANT him to pay. There are things she would not WANT him to do. Because, in paying those prices, and doing those things, he would become something other than the man she loved, and had fallen in love with. Love at any price SOUNDS nice, but it is, in reality, a dangerous and unwholesome concept.

I know it is blasphemy to mention...dare I say it...STAR TREK around here...but I in pondering the above, what came to mind was WRATH OF KHAN. For those unfamiliar, Khan was a baddie with great intelligence, courage and cunning. He also had ENORMOUS pride and ego, and a lust for vengeance. In WOK, he has a second in command who is much like a son to him. At several points in the movie, this second in command suggests to Khan...carefully...that Khan should "move on". That Khan has defeated his enemy. That Khan has shown himself superior to his enemy. That Khan has nothing more to prove, and should now "let it go"... and go on to other things, for the sake of both himself and his followers. Khan, however, simply CANNOT. His thrist for vengeance, his need to prove himself, is beyond limit. Ultimately, the second in command is killed as Khan pursues his quest for vengeance. As he dies, with Khan cradling him much as Obi cradled the dying Qui Gonn, Khan tells him "I will avenge you!". It is a great moment, because it is so true to the character of Khan.. the LAST thing this dying man would want from Khan is vengeance, is to hear that Khan will use this as an excuse to CONTINUE his insane quest. But that is all Khan has to give. And in that sense, he and Anakin are VERY similar. It is all about THEM. IT may me masked as compassion or love or loyalty..but ultimately, it is all about THEM.

Similarly, if Padme knew the price for her "salvation" was to be the slaughter of the Jedi... the end of the Republic... for Anakin to PERSONALLY betray and murder the Jedi... to PERSONALLY kill children with his own hand... do you think she would have been happy or HORRIFIED? Do you think she would have been touched or REVOLTED? And do you think Anakin once gave this a thought? No. Because, really, again, this was about ANAKIN, about HIS needs, not Padme, and not HER needs.

Anakin is a troubled man with some good in him...maybe much good... but with MUCH bad in him as well. Where that balance lies is a tricky thing to determine. And that balance may well shift over the years, and in certain circumstances. But while feeling sympathy for Anakin is a very human and compassionate thing, I think that one can go to far. He is, in ROTS, a fearful, selfish, man who makes some VERY evil choices... choices that lead to a LOT of death and suffering, possibly for billions. You just can't get around that.

Shadow

 

First of all, that won't happen. It is so obvious that the saga is about Anakin. Anyone who had watched all of the SW movies can see that. Lucas said the obvious; that his story is about Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader.
Though Yoda and the others are an important part of the saga, they are not the center of it.

Do you people know what a saga really is?
From literature of ancient Greece to this thays, sagas were stories about families and events that happened in their time. Star Wars saga is about Skywalkers. Obi-Wan is not a part of that family. Vader is the most important character, becouse this saga follows his life and the life of his children.

 

Do you people know what a saga really is?
From literature of ancient Greece to this thays, sagas were stories about families and events that happened in their time. Star Wars saga is about Skywalkers. Obi-Wan is not a part of that family. Vader is the most important character, becouse this saga follows his life and the life of his children.

--------------

okay..that makes sense.but. we're here ABOUT Vader and his deeds..not if Obi-Wan had anything to do with this...ALL the characters had a part in this..even Darth Maul from the beginning..all it takes is to connects the characters and see the puzzle fit together.

*-*-*ROCK ON!*-*-*

 

True. All those characters were important for the events that occured in the time of Skywalers. Especialy for the events that lead Anakin to the Dark Side.

 

cause when Maul revealed himself...it was only a matter of time.

*-*-*ROCK ON!*-*-*

 

Lucas would not do that? He has done it. Before the Prequels came out, he said it was from the point of view of the droids, that the story was coming from their memory banks.
Now here come the Prequels, and George changes his mind, saying that he had Anakin in mind for every movie he made, including ANH. Which is a lie. Lucas is a flip-flop who will change his opinion if he doesnt take his midol, and since he's done it before, he will do it again.
Look at the OT alone. It can be spun to be any of the main characters' story; Vader's, Luke's, Obi-Wan's, Han's, Leia's... but it was basically a good vs evil story. Now here comes the PT, with Lucas now spouting off about how it had been about Anakin all along. If it was about Anakin all along, dont you think the OT would have focused on him a bit more? In ANH, how much character development can we see in Vader as opposed to Han or Luke? None. The Prequels were made in such a fashion that it's painfully obvious as to Lucas' direction; the PT is all about Anakin. Now, if the PT was set up to be all about Obi-Wan, then it could play into the OT just as easily.

Personally, I never saw Star Wars to be all about one, single character. Sure, I had my favorites; who doesn't? But the beauty of the OT was that there was no one single focus on a character; all had a story, and all had development. All of the mains had defining moments that made you feel for and identify with them.
The PT had that, but to a far lesser extent, as the focus was on Anakin. Other characters were cheapened to make him look good, whereas that didn't happen in the OT. But I'm going off on a tangent; my apologies.
Now, saying it's about the Skywalker family is a valid point; I agree with that.

I agree in that all characters play a part... but there are those who are more important to the story. Count Dooku, for instance, was more important than Elan Sleazebaggano (the alien who attempted to sell death sticks to Obi-Wan on Coruscant).

 

Zelda_Skywalker posted:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
okay..that makes sense.but. we're here ABOUT Vader and his deeds..not if Obi-Wan had anything to do with this...ALL the characters had a part in this..even Darth Maul from the beginning..all it takes is to connects the characters and see the puzzle fit together.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I agree in that all characters play a part... but there are those who are more important to the story. Count Dooku, for instance, was more important than Elan Sleazebaggano (the alien who attempted to sell death sticks to Obi-Wan on Coruscant).
-----------------
I agree... yes.Dooku was more important..but..yes..he fits in as a side..you see the Force powers of the Jedi.:Mind Tricks...okay..not exactly what I think Lucas was aiming for in him..but..Hey..can't have all main characters..that would really reek.!

*-*-*ROCK ON!*-*-*

 

That is partialy true. Saga of Skywalkers is told by the droids. I don't prefer to enter the EU in this discussion, but look at the Dark Nest.

 

If you wish to enter EU, by all means do so. I love the EU, but I refrain from using it here as it is ignored (or ridiculed) by 90% of those who post in this area.

It may be due to the fact that we see things a different way, but in my opinion, a story from the droids memory banks would essentially be their story, as they lived it as well. They would give their points of view, not Luke's or Han's.

 

dudes..it's about Vader..not teh Droids.

*-*-*ROCK ON!*-*-*

 

Dude... it was about the droids until Lucas came up with the Vader thing. It's quoted, it's fact.

 

The entire saga is NOT about Anakin Skywalker. That claim by GL is ridiculous and a clear re-writing of history to support his decision to make the PT about Anakin. I grew up with the OT and it was and always will be Luke's story. Heck, back when it was a single movie called Star Wars and not a trilogy, the novelization was titled Star Wars: From the Adventures of Luke Skywalker. How much clearer can that be? No one who ever saw any of the OT back then was under the impression that Darth Vader was the main character. He was the BAD GUY. That is all.

 

"Sympathy is for those who are in bad situations beyond their control."

Exactly. Look at the situation Anakin was in. The situation both Jedi Council and Palpatine had put him in.

The sympathy I am referring to is Anakin loosing his wife, family, friends and his freedom. All those things he lost when he made the choice of becoming Darth Vader. Up to that point, I could sympathize with him, but when he decided the best way to deal with the situation was become a Sith, sympathy ended. He was armed with all the information and training necessary to know it was the wrong choice.

 

But he doesn't know the difference between right and wrong until Luke shows it to him in ROTJ.

 

No, i dont feel sympathy for Vader. He clearly made his choice, and he made it more than once. Every action has consecuences, and i believe Vader spent all the time from end of ROTS until the end of ROTJ living with the consecuences of those actions.

I believe he knew the difference between wrong and right, or else he wouldnt have felt bad after killing the separatists, and that's what's tragic about this character imo. I pitty Vader, but i dont simpathize with him at all. He did horrible things knowing better.

 

HE knows the difference, he just doesn't want to admit it.

 

No one who ever saw any of the OT back then was under the impression that Darth Vader was the main character. He was the BAD GUY.
-----------------

How many times to I have to say this? VADER IS NOT THE BAD GUY!!! THE BAD GUY PLACE WAS INTENDED FOR PALPATINE!!! NOT VADER! VADER WAS PALPATINE'S VICTIM!!! DON'T PUT IT ALL ON VADER! IT TOOK PALPATINE TO TELL HIM THAT LEGEND TO SCREW UP HIM MIND!!!

*-*-*ROCK ON!*-*-*

 

Someone telling you a cuple of words which you don't know for sure are true, is not enough to get you to turn your back on the thing you've known your whole life. And Vader not a bad guy. Please next you're going to tell me child molesters are not bad guys cause they usually have bad childhood. When millions, possibly billons, die at the hand of one guy ( no matter if he was seduced or not) he is a bad guy. Even if palpatine told him things he turned his back and did things that he knew were wrong.

I doubt you'd join Al-Qaeada or something and go bomb a place and kill hunreds because they promised they could save your dying spouse. If you would,then you're sick. IF you refuse to do that, It doesn't meaN you don't love your spuse, it just means you won't lose your humanity for something that happens naturally( death)

 

calm down now zelda. vader along with palpatine was the bad guy. vader although he was tricked by sids went along with killing all jedi making him a bad guy.

 

DARN YOU VADER HATERS!!!!!

*-*-*ROCK ON!*-*-*

 

Zelda, people here are just stating an opinion .. no need to shout at those that dont agree with u

 

thank you

 

whoa! now that was just a joke...I'm not really getting mad...but Darth Vader was really a victim..He was a man who lost EVERYTHING!!! EVERYTHING!! he caused his friends to betray him for what he did..

*-*-*ROCK ON!*-*-*

 

well then next time

but j/k at the end of ur post

 

IMO, I think most people want to see only the bad in Anakin/Vader. I think it might be partially because when the OT came out it was clear cut who the villians were and who the good guys were. Black and white. Vader was the coolest villian to a lot of people (I think he still is) Then when it was revealed that DV was human and not some evil droid or whatever, some fans objected.

What I'm trying to say is when Vader started acting human it was like people got upset because Lucas was messing with their favorite villian, but as Lucas said (and yes, I'm quoting the dreaded Lucas..lol) The saga isn't about monsters, it's about human frailties.

So I do have sympathy for Vader and I will continue to have it.

This might be slightly off topic (or more)but I felt the need to say it.