Non Christians celebrating Christian Holidays

Bubba,


Alittle history for us all on Easter.

You can decide for yourself whether or not it was "hijacked".

Origins of the name "Easter":

The name "Easter" originated with the names of an ancient Goddess and God. The Venerable Bede, (672-735 CE.) a Christian scholar, first asserted in his book De Ratione Temporum that Easter was named after Eostre (a.k.a. Eastre). She was the Great Mother Goddess of the Saxon people in Northern Europe. Similar "Teutonic dawn goddess of fertility [were] known variously as Ostare, Ostara, Ostern, Eostra, Eostre, Eostur, Eastra, Eastur, Austron and Ausos." 1 Her name was derived from the ancient word for spring: "eastre." Similar Goddesses were known by other names in ancient cultures around the Mediterranean, and were celebrated in the springtime. Some were:

Aphrodite from Cyprus
Astarte, from Phoenicia
Demeter, from Mycenae
Hathor from Egypt
Ishtar from Assyria
Kali, from India
Ostara, a Norse Goddess of fertility.

An alternate explanation has been suggested. The name given by the Frankish church to Jesus' resurrection festival included the Latin word "alba" which means "white." (This was a reference to the white robes that were worn during the festival.) "Alba" also has a second meaning: "sunrise." When the name of the festival was translated into German, the "sunrise" meaning was selected in error. This became "ostern" in German. Ostern has been proposed as the origin of the word "Easter". 2

Sunday is named after a Pagan sun god, Solis.



Pagan origins of Easter:

Many, perhaps most, Pagan religions in the Mediterranean area had a major seasonal day of religious celebration at or following the Spring Equinox. Cybele, the Phrygian fertility goddess, had a fictional consort who was believed to have been born via a virgin birth. He was Attis, who was believed to have died and been resurrected each year during the period MAR-22 to MAR-25. "About 200 B.C. mystery cults began to appear in Rome just as they had earlier in Greece. Most notable was the Cybele cult centered on Vatican hill ...Associated with the Cybele cult was that of her lover, Attis ([the older Tammuz, Osiris, Dionysus, or Orpheus under a new name). He was a god of ever-reviving vegetation. Born of a virgin, he died and was reborn annually. The festival began as a day of blood on Black Friday and culminated after three days in a day of rejoicing over the resurrection." 3

Wherever Christian worship of Jesus and Pagan worship of Attis were active in the same geographical area in ancient times, Christians "used to celebrate the death and resurrection of Jesus on the same date; and pagans and Christians used to quarrel bitterly about which of their gods was the true prototype and which the imitation."

Many religious historians believe that the death and resurrection legends were first associated with Attis, many centuries before the birth of Jesus. They were simply grafted onto stories of Jesus' life in order to make Christian theology more acceptable to Pagans. Others suggest that many of the events in Jesus' life that were recorded in the gospels were lifted from the life of Krishna, the second person of the Hindu Trinity. Ancient Christians had an alternate explanation; they claimed that Satan had created counterfeit deities in advance of the coming of Christ in order to confuse humanity. 4 Modern-day Christians generally regard the Attis legend as being a Pagan myth of little value. They regard Jesus' death and resurrection account as being true, and unrelated to the earlier tradition.


Latre!

 

Smith:

Origins of the name "Easter":

The name "Easter" originated with the names of an ancient Goddess and God. The Venerable Bede, (672-735 CE.) a Christian scholar, first asserted in his book De Ratione Temporum that Easter was named after Eostre (a.k.a. Eastre). She was the Great Mother Goddess of the Saxon people in Northern Europe. Similar "Teutonic dawn goddess of fertility [were] known variously as Ostare, Ostara, Ostern, Eostra, Eostre, Eostur, Eastra, Eastur, Austron and Ausos." 1 Her name was derived from the ancient word for spring: "eastre."

And? Neither the reason nor the timing of the holiday is a "hijacking" of a pagan holiday. The fact that the word "Easter" may or may not have sprung from the name of a pagan god (surely not all the names you listed?) is, I think, grasping for straws.


Similar Goddesses were known by other names in ancient cultures around the Mediterranean, and were celebrated in the springtime. Some were:

Aphrodite from Cyprus
Astarte, from Phoenicia
Demeter, from Mycenae
Hathor from Egypt
Ishtar from Assyria
Kali, from India
Ostara, a Norse Goddess of fertility.

Again I question the relevance. You're telling me that pagan cultures -- cultures who had gods for every season, day of the week, phase of the moon, and room of the house -- had fertility gods, and that they celebrated these gods when spring arrived and plants started growing again? Whoopty-doo. By the sheer number of pagan gods and holidays, any non-pagan holiday is bound to land in the same space on the calendar.


An alternate explanation has been suggested. The name given by the Frankish church to Jesus' resurrection festival included the Latin word "alba" which means "white." (This was a reference to the white robes that were worn during the festival.) "Alba" also has a second meaning: "sunrise." When the name of the festival was translated into German, the "sunrise" meaning was selected in error. This became "ostern" in German. Ostern has been proposed as the origin of the word "Easter".

I thank you for your completeness, but this actually hurts the case that the Christians ripped off the pagans.


Sunday is named after a Pagan sun god, Solis.

Isn't every day of the week named after some pagan god? So when could Christians choose a holiday that wouldn't hijack a pagan's religion?


My response about Attis will focus on one key passage:

Many religious historians believe that the death and resurrection legends were first associated with Attis, many centuries before the birth of Jesus. They were simply grafted onto stories of Jesus' life in order to make Christian theology more acceptable to Pagans.

This claim is unsubstantiated. I cannot emphasize this point enough: the Resurrection is Christianity. That claim is the first, greatest, and most central claim of my faith; there is not a single shred of evidence that the Resurrection was ever "grafted" onto the religion. On the contrary, the Christian church's earliest members were willing to die than recant that Jesus physically rose from the dead.

 

Neither the reason nor the timing of the holiday is a "hijacking" of a pagan holiday.

No, but some of the methods of celebrated have been adopted (perhaps "hijacked" is a little strong a word in this case) from pagan rituals.

Tell me, did you, as a Christian, ever decorate Easter eggs or go on an Easter egg hunt? What is it about the coloring of an egg that symbolizes Jesus' death and resurrection?

If you're going to incorporate Christian and pagan celebrations into the same holiday, you shouldn't be the least bit surprised when non-Christians celebrate the same day.

 

I thank you for your completeness, but this actually hurts the case that the Christians ripped off the pagans.

You welcome.

I debated whether or not to put in the christian explaination, but to be "fair and balanced", I decided to do so.

As I said, decide for yourself.

And as for "hijacked", that's why I put it in quotes.

Latre!

 

Wolf Lol now who knows that Jesus's last supper was a Passover dinner?

It makes sense, Wolf. Jesus was Jewish, his disciples were Jewish, for the most part I think. The Passover dinner, or seder as it is called, is a very ritualistic dinner. We read from a book (the Haggadah) about the Exodus from Egypt (Moses and the gang). There's alot of ritual food and gestures symbolizing the Exodus. And one person is in charge of leading the seder (like Jesus was). However, nowadays, Easter doesn't always follow or fall during Passover. Last year, I think it came after. How I know is that last year we were able to eat my friend's delicious carrot cake at her Easter dinner. If it's Passover, we can't eat any bread or bread products for 8 days...just matzoh (which is unleavened bread and looks like a big saltine cracker) and other food of course.

 

Every day is a holiday to me. I suppose in a way, a "day off" or whatnot from this life would be death which isn't entrirely possible.

Anyone can celebrate any holidays. Maybe you could encourage those who dont know much of your religion to maybe learn a bit of 'said' religion on the holiday but living is learning enough.

If your own self does not find it right to celebrate another religions holiday, then dont. But dont worry about what other people do. People do what they feel is right.

Grand ol' Designer

 

Is it hypocritical for non-Christians to celebrate on a day named for Christian worship?

I celebrated Easter with my family and friends by painting Easter eggs, giving my daughter and her playmates Easter baskets, and hunting around for aformentioned eggs. In our celebration, there was no sign of any Christian holiday or worship.

I celebrate Christmas every year with a decorative Christmas tree (high quality artificial--for safety as well as environment's sake) with presents underneath. My wife and I have in the past spent Christmas afternoon volunteering at local soup kitchens and intend to do so again when our daughter gets older (she can't yet reach the serving ladle at age 2, ya know). We celebrate the ideas of Santa Claus, and the lessons behind them. We also celebrate the days of Kwanzaa, again because of the positive lessons found therein.

So celebrating in these ways, because they are on days with Christian holiday names, is hypocritical?

That's like saying I'm a hypocrit because my name is Matthew (a name popularly of biblical origin), but I'm not a Christian.

I would be a hypocrit if I claimed not to be a Christian, then went to Church on Easter Sunday, or Good Friday, or went to Midnight Mass on Christmas Eve. But such is not the case (for most nonChristian folk I know).

This claim is unsubstantiated. I cannot emphasize this point enough: the Resurrection is Christianity. That claim is the first, greatest, and most central claim of my faith; there is not a single shred of evidence that the Resurrection was ever "grafted" onto the religion. On the contrary, the Christian church's earliest members were willing to die than recant that Jesus physically rose from the dead.

Very good point; with the Resurrection, there would be no Christianity. Having said that, there are myths from other cultures predating the Christian story that deal with Resurrection and/or Reincarnation. Some do suggest (please take no offense, as this is again merely a suggestion on the part of some scholars) that the Christ Resurrection was created to add a sort validity and legendary quality to the story.

 

To each his own, I always say.

Christians shouldn't get angry at those people who like to celebrate holidays for purely non-religious and universal reasons (You've got to admit, the Christmas season does bring about a lot of good-will in all people). Sure the holidays started out for different purposes, but so what? Get over it. Things change. As long as no one is interferring with your beliefs and traditions (last time I checked, it wasn't illegal to go to Church on Christmas Day or Easter) then its fine. Conversely, the non-religious observers shouldn't be trying to force the non-religious aspects of the Holiday onto the religious believers, and renaming the holidays to be more PC is just plain stupid - if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Besides, let the non-believers be duped into buying gifts and cheap candy for a couple of days out of the year - hell, be thankful that in addition to the commercial-prostitution that occurs, these holidays have more importantly evolved to symbolize and celebrate some of the good aspects of humanity.

P.S. - please don't kill me for using the word "evolved".

 

No, but some of the methods of celebrated have been adopted (perhaps "hijacked" is a little strong a word in this case) from pagan rituals.

Tell me, did you, as a Christian, ever decorate Easter eggs or go on an Easter egg hunt? What is it about the coloring of an egg that symbolizes Jesus' death and resurrection?

If you're going to incorporate Christian and pagan celebrations into the same holiday, you shouldn't be the least bit surprised when non-Christians celebrate the same day.

First, I actually have not addressed that part of this discussion. Truthfully, I don't mind at all non-Christians celebrating Christmas or Easter -- or simply taking the opportunity of those two holidays to reunite with friends and family in the spirit of love.

I concede that Christianity has taken elements from ancient pagan holidays and incorporated them into their own holidays. My complaint is the assertion that there was no real substance before that incorporation -- that Christians fabricated the birth and resurrection of Jesus just have something to celebrate near the winter solstice and vernal equinox.

There's no historical evidence for such an assertion, and it thus comes off as the whining of people who do not know what they're talking about.

 

since I'm not the one demeaning other people's holy days,

I saw this statement and it really bothered me. I celebrate Christmas so I'm demeaning 'your' holiday because I don't believe in the same goofy invisible man who lives in the sky that you do? Ya think if there are any believers in Mithraism left that they are getting bent out of shape because Christians don't know the real meaning behind the celebration on December 25th? It's pretty much what the Christians are saying to the rest of us. Christians stole the date from earlier religions to make things easier, and now non-Christians have stolen the name to make things easier, because 'Winter Celebration' just sounds stupid.

But lemme get back to 'demeaning' your precious stolen day. So since I take the day off from work, (since 98% of places are closed anyway,) and decide to spend the day with friends and family, eating pasta and drinking wine, I am demeaning 'your' holiday? I would LOVE to hear the explanation for that one! So am I not supposed to do this? Most of my family is Catholic, and they don't seem to think I am 'demeaning' their holiday by joining them for a nice meal, and just hanging out spending time together. Maybe you could provide some examples of just how I am demeaning your holiday just because I am no longer a Christian, yet I still celebrate a holiday.

If Christians want to celebrate these holidays religously, great! No problems here with that. But if some "Christians" wanna get all pissed off and bent out of shape about other people, (non-Christians,) celebrating these national holidays in other ways, then in no way do I think anyone should have any respect for these individuals.

I have never told someone that they are wrong for celebrating these days the way they choose. All I am asking for in return is the same courtesy. Doesn't seem like all that much to ask for to me.

 

Monkey, if you read all my posts in this thread -- specifically the most recent post -- you would see that you're getting indignant over an imaginary argument, over something you think I said rather than something I actually said.

Look again at what I said:

Truthfully, I don't mind at all non-Christians celebrating Christmas or Easter -- or simply taking the opportunity of those two holidays to reunite with friends and family in the spirit of love.

I concede that Christianity has taken elements from ancient pagan holidays and incorporated them into their own holidays. My complaint is the assertion that there was no real substance before that incorporation -- that Christians fabricated the birth and resurrection of Jesus just have something to celebrate near the winter solstice and vernal equinox.

There's no historical evidence for such an assertion, and it thus comes off as the whining of people who do not know what they're talking about.

I don't mind non-Christians celebrating Christmas. I made that blindingly clear in the post right before your indignant reply.

EDIT: I know people criticize me for being so harsh, but come on. My position was clear in the last post on this thread.

 

I know people criticize me for being so harsh, but come on. My position was clear in the last post on this thread.

As incredible as it may be, I must agree with you Bubba.

While I did enjoy J-M's rant, I saw no need to single you out especially after you did specify that you didn't have a problem with non-christians celebrating christain holidays.

Now, as for this statement:

My complaint is the assertion that there was no real substance before that incorporation -- that Christians fabricated the birth and resurrection of Jesus just have something to celebrate near the winter solstice and vernal equinox.

There's no historical evidence for such an assertion, and it thus comes off as the whining of people who do not know what they're talking about.

Well...I wouldn't say that christians fabricated the birth and death of Jesus (as I do believe that the resurrection was - just as you ask for evidence that such an event did not happen, I ask for historical evidence that such an event did), I will say that christians embellished the events surrounding his birth and death.

Sure, I too believe that a man named Jesus lived on this planet, but as for how he was conceived, some of the feats he was reported to have done throughout his life, and his supposed resurrection, all I can say is that there were similar stories (none with any factual basis mind you) throughout history long before Jesus Christ was born.

That being said, again, to each his own.

Latre!

 

So you recant your earlier statement of: since I'm not the one demeaning other people's holy days?

you agree that this was a poor choice of words on your part?

 

I don't mind non-Christians celebrating Christmas. I made that blindingly clear in the post right before your indignant reply.

The only thing you have changed is your words. The attitude and tone of all your posts in this thread remain the same. Including the one in which you were responding to my own 'indignant post', and the one you're trying to say makes my post unnecessary. (It doesn't, by the way.)

First, I actually have not addressed that part of this discussion.

Um, yes you have. With the statement that I was replying to in my 'indignant post'. Maybe I'm not the one who should read back through your posts. Maybe you should make sure you haven't already contradicted yourself before you jump all over my case. I did read through your posts, all of them, which is what prompted my response in the first place. Although my post is directed at all Holier-than thou people, and not just at you. If you wanna take it personally, that's your problem, especially now that I have explained it to you.

I don't mind non-Christians celebrating Christmas. I made that blindingly clear in the post right before your indignant reply.

You also made 'blindingly clear', in the first part of that paragraph that you are now apparently ignoring, that you had not addressed this, when in fact you had. So what are we to believe when you cannot keep your own posts straight?

 

You also made 'blindingly clear', in the first part of that paragraph that you are now apparently ignoring, that you had not addressed this, when in fact you had.

Actually, I think when Bubba made the comment about "demeaning" holidays, he wasn't complaining about people celebrating the holidays for a different reason, but rather, about people claiming there was no basis for Christians to celebrate:

Agree or don't; believe or don't; but Christmas and Easter are genuine Christian holidays, the celebration of a historical man's birth (whose date we do not know with precision) and the celebration of that man's resurrection (on which our faith depends). Unless you can prove that both events did not happen, back off.


EDIT:
"Demeaning" was probably a poor choice of wording; "belittling" would have made more sense.

 

Perhaps my word choice was poor. What I was focusing on and criticizing was the idea that if you peel away all the pagan influences on Christian holidays, nothing would remain; that idea is simply ahistorical. If my early posts were ambiguous on that point, I apologize, and I believe I sufficiently clarified my position toward the end.

 

I don't celebrate these holidays, but I'm sometimes forced to take the time off, especially at Christmas. Personally, if I could I'd happily celebrate the Buddhist festivals instead.

 

I don't know about a lot of you, but I have a lot of non-Christian friends who see nothing wrong with celebrating Easter, Christmas, and today Good Friday. Why do they do this? And if anyone here isn't Christian, do you celebrate these holidays and why?

Maybe being brought up Catholic I was taught to take a "show no mercy" standpoint against the matter, but some of my Christian friends agreed with me. Heck, my friend Brandon, and Apache Indian, is going to church Sunday because he believes in Jesus just not God.

I find this as an act of hypocrisy, especially when Atheists celebrate these holidays.

Thoughts? Comments?

Most Christian holidays were originally Pagan festivals... Xmas for example... Jesus was born some time around June or Julyish but Christians took to making the Yuletide festival pagans celebrated into their own celebration. THAT irks me more than anything and persecuted anyone who disagreed with them. They bastardized Pan and made him into the Devil so they had an excuse to persecute them further! Look at the similarities between pictures of Pan and satan... not too dissimilar are they?

 

As a non-Christian myself, I can say that I don't celebrate Easter and Christmas because they are Easter and Christmas. Besides,(as it's been pointed out) you need to define celebrate. Does Puting up stockings and a Christmas Tree qualify? Because that has nothing to do with the Christian religion. The celebration of a holiday can be simply that. A celebration. And as long as the reasons for celebration are a postive thing, whats the harm in allowing others to take part? When non-Christians take part in these celebrations, they are not doing it to Blaspheme Christianity.

 

One note:

With Easter we celebrate the single event in human history on which all other events hinge.

Wouldn't this be, y'know, CREATION -- since, if we are to believe the entirety of the Torah/Bible then we must believe that G-d created heaven, earth and then man... so, wouldn't that be the single event in human history on which all other events hinge?

And then, on the date of Easter... doesn't it rotate every year to line up with Passover? I admit, I'm unfamiliar, but they fall around the same time (when The Ten Commandments are on) every year...

 

From the Christian point of view, even the creation of the universe is subservient to the event commemorated on Easter -- the Resurrection.

(In truth, there are three events, all intertwined, on which history hinge: the Incarnation, the Crucifixion, and the Resurrection -- the birth, death, and return of Jesus Christ, fully God and fully man. He came and was born so that He would die and rise again. Without His death, the Resurrection would have been impossible; without the Resurrection, His death would not have brought hope.)

Allow me to quote the opening verses of the Gospel of John:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God; all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made. In him was life, and the life was the light of men...

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth; we have beheld his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father. - John 1:1-4,14

It's your right to not believe, of course, but Christianity asserts the primacy of the life of Jesus as the single most important event in the history of time and space -- as the reason that time, space, and history even exist.

 

i'm an atheist who loves chocolate. that's why i celebrate.

 

I do not care who you are, so you can celebrate what ever holidays you want to celebrate. They are all goverment approved anyway. Besides, there are only like two Christian holidays in a year anyway, so whats the big deal?

 

I have no religion, and I describe myself as agnostic. I've never officially belonged to any religion, though I did flirt with Christianity for awhile (thank goodness I pulled out of that before it was too late... ).

Up till a couple years ago, I've always "celebrated" Christmas in that I recognized the holiday and I got gifts. I also participated in some Easter Bunny activities when I was in the first grade. I don't know how you define "celebrate", though. I did officially recognize those holidays. That was back when I didn't know what those holidays really meant, and if I did know I didn't care (I think I knew that Christmas was the "birthday" of Jesus Christ, but other than that it was just like, whatever.).

Nowadays, I no longer recognize or celebrate in any fashion religious holidays. To do so would disgust me, as I would be a foolish charlatan. To me, Dec. 25 is just a day on which some guy in Israel was born 2000 years ago, and one that has significance for Christians - and I'm not a Christian, thank God. Not "celebrating" Christmas means I no longer give or accept gifts.

When I first announced that I would no longer recognize Christmas (and at the same time told my family to not get me any gifts), my family and one of my close friends were surprised. "You don't have to be Christian to celebrate Christmas," they said.

That's bantha poodoo.

 

Kuna_Tiori,

I can tell you with utmost certainty that Christmas is a pagan holiday, NOT a christian one. True, christians make use of it to celebrate the birth of Christ, but it isn't of christian origin. You are therefore, protesting a pagan event when you refuse to celebrate Christmas. Which is fine by me. Do what you want. Personally, I think it's a great holiday, regardless of its origins [I'm a christian]. It reminds me of hobbits giving away their presents to each other on their birthdays so they end up with presents all year round. It reminds me of Jesus. It reminds me of home. Friends. Family.