Non Force Users And Lightsabers.

i was thinking about how han solo was able to weild a lightsaber not once but twice. then there's marn heirogryph and shel jelavan. how were they able to activate and use a lightsaber if they are not force sensitive?.

 

They pressed the "on" button.

In all seriousness, it only takes Force-sensitivity to *create* a lightsaber. Anyone can pick one up and turn it on. However, it also takes the Force to get the most out of a 'saber - they're notoriously hard to wield. Also, you need to have precognition to be able to deflect blaster bolts, and if you can't do that, you're basically just bringing a sword to a gunfight.

 

Which wouldn't be an issue if you had this sword.

 

There are some lightsabers, iirc, that only Force-users can use.

 

Right, the switch is internal and thus can only be activated by the force.

 

Not necessarily.

 

True, but these are a rarity. Most just have a simple control stud, and often a dead-man switch that turns the saber off if you drop it.

 

Hethrir was kinda dumn, I mean if somebody came along with a Ysamamiri he wouldn't even be able to switch his saber on. Guess thats why Waru "ate" him............

 

Darca Nyl used one for the last half of his life and he wasn't force sensitive

 

If you practice really hard, you can do reasonably well with a lightsaber. But to my knowledge Darca wasn't deflecting blaster bolts with his saber, though he was still a skilled duellist with it. A few other characters have managed to become competent with lightsabers despite not being force-users. Anja Gallandro springs to mind. There were also the "saber rakes" of WEG, and the "lightfoils" of the Marvel Comics run.

Basically, you could still make a lightsaber a pretty fearsome weapon even without the Force...but as noted, you couldn't really get the most out of it without it.

 

I'd feel reasonably confident in saying that somewhere in the galaxy there are one or two masters of the lightsaber who are not force sensitive.

They likely have a style that is NOTHING like a Jedi's.

Deflecting blaster bolts is well and good, but that is a tertiary perk of the blade...so is sucking up electrical current. Someone without the force, and even Jedi who are to distracted, have to dodge blaster shots like anyone with a blaster does. And I would say I'd take a master swordsman against a punk with a blaster ANYDAY.

Dedication and dexterity are not the exclusive realm of the Jedi in the galaxy.

 

I wondered about Darca Nyl. He didn't duel with Lycan, which made sense at the time, but he dueled in Rebellion. Lightsaber duelists are often described as moving unbelievably fast, or/and the level of mastery being so intense that it seems as if they choreographed beforehand. I'd be surprised if Darca Nyl could really fight that way.

 

Maybe he'd been practicing a lot in the intervening years. He was definitely the obsessive type. Or maybe his fighting style was just so different that it was difficult for more "traditionally" trained lightsaber duellists to counter/anticipate.

Or it could fall back on that tidbit from one of those books where non Force-Users are sometimes more difficult to predict/anticipate for other Force Users. Think about it: If you're used to a certain degree of sensory input from your force-using opponent...the ebb and flow of the Force around them, in other words, and now you're fighting against a comparative "blank slate" it might take a little while to adjust. Not to say the Force-User wouldn't likely come out on top in the end, but the non Force-User could get lucky in the early stages of the fight.

Though I attribute his glancing blow on Vader solely to Vader completely dismissing him as a threat.

 

I imagine most would just blow right through him instead of worrying about how to fight him.

If they can deflect blaster bolts, it means they get plenty of input from non Force-sensitives, certainly enough to kill him.

Agreed.

 

Depends on the person in question. But I'm confused, are you railing against Darca Nyl being a competent duellist or just trying to figure out why he apparently became a competent duellist?

Or they've just practiced a lot at deflecting blaster bolts. Remember, via the background info on the PT one of the problems that the Jedi had when faced by Sith was that very few Jedi had practical experience in lightsaber duelling. Aside from sparring matches that were probably more of a spiritual exercise than intended as true combat training, up until Episode I there were probably only a handful of Jedi that had ever gone lightsaber-to-lightsaber in a real fight. Or in other words, with a few exceptions, most Jedi were trained to defend, not to duel. Mace, Dooku, Qui-Gon (Probably via Dooku's influence) and others of their ilk were oddities/exceptional.

Of course, the easiest answer is that Darca Nyl is just an untrained force-sensitive, but the evidence seems to speak against that particular possibility.

 

A dark sider wouldn't worry about how to fight him but just cut to the chase and finish him off? Or maybe the dark sider thinks it's interesting that a non-Force sensitive is dueling him. Or maybe he figures there must be more to him than he is.

In a fandom where everything is canon and retcons are everything, don't both amount to the same thing?

And yet, when they do go toe to toe with other lightsaber wielders, they stand up brilliantly, for the most part. I mean, they may lose eventually - Dooku pwns Obi-Wan and Anakin - but they perform.

Agreed, and frankly I like it better if he's not.

 

Yeah basically. A Dark Sider comes in many shades. Some might want to toy with him, some might want to see if he can give them any kind of challenge at all, some might completely dismiss him and end up in trouble because of it. It's not as if Dark Siders aren't known for being a wee bit arrogant, after all.

But Anakin and Obi-Wan were among the "duelists." Qui-Gon was already basically among that group, as was Mace. By comparison, look at Saesee Tiin, Agen Kolar, and Kit Fisto, all of whom were prized for their swordsmanship skills...none of whom lasted more than 5-10 seconds against a Sith Lord in a "real" fight. Even Cin Drallig, unless you go by the video-game account, basically got completely dominated once he was forced to put his duelling skills to real use. Or in other words, the only "performers" we really see are those that are the established duelists. At least in the context of the films. But even in the EU, look at how many Jedi fell to Asaaj Ventress, Aurra Sing, and Grievous. The evidence seems to point towards most of the Jedi simply not being very good duelists when faced by other lightsaber-wielding opponents. I'd throw the Dark Woman, Quinlan Vos, and Tholme into the "duelist" category as well. Probably Aayla Secura, Shaak Ti, and A'Sharad Hett, too, but the majority simply weren't well-equipped (whether mentally or skill-wise) to deal with actual dueling.

Doubly-agreed. His story is far less interesting otherwise.

 

Well, Darca is a highly trained soldier, so he could arguably have fantastic reflexes. It may also be possible that he's something like Nova Stihl or Ratua in Death Star -- just minimally over the Force-sensitive threshold, enough to give you some speed when you're pressed but not enough to really go beyond the one use you've cultivated or to really register on Vader's Forcedar.

 

Apparently 'sabers have some kind of wacky gyroscope in them that makes them go all crazy or something if you're not careful.

No, seriously.

 

I'd like to see Darca duel Baron Tagge. Two obsessive lightsaber wielders that aren't Force-sensitive. That'd be a fight to remember. I was surprised that they didn't mention Tagge's lightsaber in the JvS EG. Since according to it, Tagge's scientists would have had a difficult if not impossible job in constructing him a working lightsaber. Maybe Tagge got the saber off of Darca Nyl?

Also, why exactly does spice make Anja able to competently wield the lightsaber? Cocain addicts aren't exactly weapons experts.

 

I think the effects may be slightly different. I don't think that coke gives you precognition.

 

I don't like non FSitives using lightsabers.

I especially don't like them being good with them.

And I especially - especially - don't like them being able to hold off Jedi even remotely well with them.

 

It'd be nice if just once a non-Force sensitive accidentally chopped his own leg off with a lightsaber. We're constantly given that warning in sourcebooks, that those untrained with a lightsaber will cause themselves harm, but we never see it. Instead it's always treated as a fancy sword. You're not going to stab yourself unless you're absolutely trying to.

I'm not entirely against Nyl holding his own against Sardoth. Nyl had probably been training non stop with a lightsaber for more than 30 years. Although Sardoth collected lightsabers, I doubt he trained with them, which means he had probably been out of practice for around 20 years. Yet, he still overwhelms Nyl, there's not a chance in the world that Nyl was going to win that duel, much less last another few seconds until Vader entered the room to distract Sardoth.

 

I think the movies are absolutely canon, right? So, Han was able to use a lightsaber. Then again, its arguable that Obi-wan fiddled around with that saber in the last few decades so that it would be easier for Luke to wield it, as when Luke first got it he had next to no idea about the Force. But I prefer the idea that lightsabers are just fancy swords. I know the recent JvS guide had something about lightsabers needing special Jedi sense to use properly, but... I like the older idea that the Old Republic Jedi used laser blades as they're more elegant than blasters, can deflect blaster bolts so they make a good defensive weapon, fitting for a Jedi, but still have plenty of offensive applications, and that lightsabers haven't really changed much for millenia. If a non-Jedi used one recklessly, I can see them losing a limb, but for just a few swings (like when Han cut open that bantha), I don't see any big problem to it. For most non-Force people, a vibroblade is fine, but lightsabers are useful for hacking through stuff. As... Madine (at least I think it was hime) put it once, it makes a great "universal cutting tool".

And I kind of like the idea of Nyl just practicing a lot with his lightsaber. Not good enough to take on Vader, but Vader has let down his guard before. I know Jedi and Sith are the superheroes of the EU, but its nice to see normal people take them on sucessfully sometimes. Though that kind of trend has been exceedingly rare in the more recent published works (how often have Alema, Asajj, Aurra, etc. escaped?), unfortunately. Well, good guy Jedi can die easily, but lots of bad guys never go down easily.

And I hope Nyl is never made even marginally Force sensitive. I think part of his appeal was that he was just a normal guy, with enough guts to go up against an evil Force-sensitive.

 

Well, Suvam Tan created a lightsaber without being force-sensitive, but he was an exceptional individual. And it was a pretty sweet lightsaber.