PT Obi-Wan dismembering Anakin in RotS, Compassion?

I'd say it was an accidental dismemberment, perhaps he aimed to kill. Or maybe he couldn't bear to kill Anakin himself, he would let the lava do that. My personal definition is the latter.

 

Damn it, everyone's already said so much on this, I feel I'll sound redundant. But here's my thoughts:

You folks have brought up the good point that Kenobi wasn't acting very Jedi-like by leaving Vader to (he thought) die a very slow and painful death. And maybe that's what makes the moment so interesting? Obi-Wan, for that one moment, dropped his precious Jedi code and acted human, for a change. Objectively speaking, yes, he should have killed Vader right there, absolutely. Him walking away without finishing the job was a moment of cowardice on Kenobi's part. Which really gives Obi-Wan a nice tragic layer. Now wonder the poor guy wallowed in guilt over the next nineteen years and convinced himself Vader was an irredeemable monster to make himself feel better about leaving him to burn.

Also, refresh my memory, in the novelization, Kenobi chooses to not deal the final blow because he wanted to leave Anakin's fate to The Force to decide? Which also works well, methinks.

 

Nope. Lucas discusses this in the commentary. He said that Anakin's arrogance is what brings him down. It was to show that Anakin thought he was better than Obi-wan and when Obi-wan warns him to not jump, Anakin takes that as a personal slam against him and his abilities. He thinks that he can make the jump and Obi-wan will not hit him. He lets his anger and arrogance defeat him.

 

The prequels are an abomination.

 

Compared to Batman and Robin

 

Mod edit: Totally inappropriate

 

okay

 

Mod edit: And out. Again.

 

As I said, Kenobi was determined to end the threat that was Vader... even though, deep down, he didn't want to kill his former friend. When Vader tried to leap on top of him, Kenobi reacted in a non-lethal manner... and that was his last act of mercy.

I don't know about that... while I wouldn't put it past Obi-Wan to forgive his old friend, I'm not convinced that he would have "helped" him... because Skywalker had brought dismemberment down upon himself. He warned Vader not to, but he did it anyway... Kenobi's reaction was instantaneous, but was tempered by his unwillingness to deal the killing blow.

Some of his actions were calculated, but I don't believe that he set out to make Vader suffer...
when he caught fire, Kenobi left him to the fate that he engineered for himself. I think his mindset was: "I'm not going to kill you, because I honor the man you used to be, but I'm not obligated to end the misery of the monster that you've become."

Remember his shock, when he learned that Vader survived?

 

Problem is, we don't see this shock in RoTS or ANH.

 

I would have loved for that scene on Tatooine to be added after Eppy-III's credits...

First and only one in all of Star Wars.

 

I liked most of Dark Lord.

There's a lot of good "filling in the gaps" out there in the EU, quite apart from stories that are interesting in their own right.

 

I would qualify seeing Vader in the hallway leading back to the hangar as being shocked.

 

Maybe- didn't recall his expression changing though.

I figured that just as Vader sensed him when he walked near the Falcon (without being able to isolate his location), so he sensed Vader back.

Which is why he told Luke "Your destiny lies along a different path from mine" and "The Force will be with you - always."

He knew then, that he was going to end up facing Vader.

 

But that doesn't preclude Kenobi from being shocked when he first saw him standing there...

waiting.

 

Good point. I immediately think of how he started swinging his lightsaber to disarm Zam Weasell before he could even see her.

Personally, I think Obi-Wan couldn't make up his mind on whether to kill Anakin or not, and at the last minute, he couldn't. The cuts were precise; it was clear that he was trying to disarm Anakin in the most extreme way - but still not kill him. Dueling his former apprentice was probably torturous enough, he just wanted to end it (but he was still unable to directly kill him).

 

If we look back when Obi-Wan was talking with Yoda in the security camera chambers, Yoda tells Kenobi that he has to face Anakin, but Kenobi replies saying that he cannot fight Anakin, that he would not be able to do it. With that being said, I feel like Obi-Wan dismembering Anakin was an act of compassion and love, seeing as he was not emotionally capable of killing him.

 

I think that might be one of the most troubling sentences I have ever read; " With that being said, I feel like Obi-Wan dismembering Anakin was an act of compassion and love, seeing as he was not emotionally capable of killing him."

I know it isn't what you intended but... it is a mindblowing construction.

 

From the novel:

So according to the novel he is not feeling merciful even though Anakin is burning alive, and he will not murder a helpless man out of respect to the Jedi Code.

But I wonder if these two sentiments contradict each other. Because of his feelings about what Anakin has done, he shows a lack of mercy when someone is burning alive. However, compassion is an important Jedi ideal, and a mercy killing would be compassionate in this instance. And he was sent to kill him in the first place, so why not kill him now? Apparently he feels he has rendered Anakin helpless and no longer a threat, though this seems unwise given how powerful he is. His body is still intact, and Palpatine is coming. He then decides to leave it to the Force, even though Yoda gave him explicit orders. Wouldn't Yoda have advised in accordance with the wishes of the Force? Of course it turns out that Anakin kills the Emperor 24 years later, but before that he killed many Jedi and strengthened the Empire.

Obi-Wan also feels like he doesn't have time to kill Anakin because the Emperor is coming. This seems a little absurd when Anakin is about 10 feet away and a simple Force-Push would do the job. Or if he is too worn out to do a Force-Push he can use his lightsaber.

Of course there are some differences between the novel and film, mostly minor (extended dialogue, for example, though often during crucial scenes). There were major differences in the various drafts of the script during the production of the film, and who knows which draft the author of the novel received and when? So it is hard to say if Obi-Wan's motivations in the novel are exactly the same as those in the film, or what George Lucas officially and finally intended them to be (Lucas changed his mind several times about characters' motivations while making the movie.)

 

Well I was trying to understand what you meant earlier.

If I got it wrong I am sorry but from what you said earlier I took it to mean this;
When Anakin jumps towards Obi-Wan, the following goes on in Obi-Wans mind:
"Anakin is wide open so I could kill him but if I do that, he will die an evil man.
So I won't do that. Instead I'll dismember him and this will give Anakin one last chance to beg forgiveness and say that he is sorry. If he begs forgiveness then I'll end his misery. If he doesn't then I'll leave him to burn."

My comment was that IF Obi-wan thinks this, then it seems very calculated but also a bit odd. Did he really think that Anakin would beg for forgiveness after he has been chopped up and is burning alive?

If this isn't what you meant then ignore my comment.

Bye for now.
Old Stoneface

Follow up to some comments.

I still can't understand the logic that Obi-Wan dismembered Anakin out of compassion or the goodness of his heart.
I can not see in any way why Obi-Wan thinks this is better for Anakin.
Anakin will still die but it will take longer time and hurt a lot more. How is that better for Anakin than a quick death?

About Obi-wan falling back on traning/insticts.
When a Jedi is trained to fight with the lightsaber I would imagine they are trained to avoid lethal force if possible but if they have to kill, then they would go for a clean/quick kill. So chopping of one hand of an attacker, the hand that holds a weapon. Ok fine, I can see that.
Some used Zam as an example. But to go from that to dismembering? Say that in AotC, Obi-Wan didn't just cut of Zam's hand but he also cut off both her legs. Wouldn't this be total overkill on Obi-Wans part? And wouldn't this make him look a little cruel by inflicting this much damage when it might not have been needed?
So IF Obi-Wan didn't think, he juts reacted and fell back on his training. Then I can see him just chopping of Anakins hand and the lightsaber with it.
OR I can see him going for a quick kill.

The Jedi are trained to fight and they are given permission TO kill if the need arises. They aren't doctors, who are trained to heal and have an oath to do no harm. So in some ways they are soldiers, they know that they might have to end the life of their opponent. So I would image that Jedi are trained and taught to kill quickly if lethal force is required.
So if a Jedi fights an opponent and the Jedi has decided or has orders to KILL this other person, then I can't see why their code would forbid them to end suffering. If they cut the enemy down and this enemy is dying from those wounds, why would a jedi be forbidden to end this suffering?
The person will die anyway and it it will by the jedi's hands. So they can't avoid resposibility. And ethically, I have a hard time seeing it is more moral to leave an enemy to die in horrible pain than end their suffering. If life is so important then take the enemy with them and try and save their lives. But if a jedi KNOWS that death is 100% certain, baring outside interference, then inaction is the same as killing. But one is slow and painful and the other much quicker.

Bye for now.
Blackboard Monitor

 

In The Jedi Path, a forbidden technique of lightsaber duelling is mentioned, Mou Kei, or dismemberment.
'Mou kei is a forbidden variant, literally meaning "to dismember." It involves the act of cutting through various limbs at once. You should never have to use mou kei against any living being given the many alternatives' - Master Skarch Vaunk
I don't think it's coincidental this is what's written next to it:
'I can't imagine ever needing to use such a mark.' - Kenobi
If this is true, I can't imagine it being 'instinct or training' that he is falling back on.

But Kenobi has used some questionable techniques before, such as Sai tok (slicing someone in half)
A description of the move:
'Sai tok slices an entire body into two halves. This act is rightly barbaric and evidence of the furious emotions of the dark side. Unless you're fighting droids, no student of mine should ever need to use Sai Tok' - Master Skarch Vaunk This just leads me to believe that, on Mustafar, Obi-Wan was under the influence of the dark side. It wasn't instinct or training.

 

Easily said when you think the enemy of your Order has long been extinct. Not sure I can buy "defending yourself and lecturing your former apprentice about the evil that was Palpatine" as being under the influence of the dark side...

Because if Kenobi had been, then Vader would have been dead before his body hit the ground.

 

I suppose not.
But that still doesn't explain why he used such a cruel technique on his Padawan. Honestly, I agree with Vaunk. You should never need to use that as a Jedi given all the alternatives.
He probably wasn't under the influence of the dark side, but succumbing to his anger.

 

He was calm when he declared that their battle had come to an end and was not angry when he warned Vader no to try it...

Kenobi was in a no-win situation, he was committed to ending the threat, but reluctant to execute his former friend.

 

He had to stop Anakin somehow, and it was expected that it was going to be by death. The fact that he spared him was compassionate.