Obi-Wan vs. The Jedi Code

I'd ask this in Movies but... it's Movies after all.


For the most part I ignore the Jedi Code. As stated it creates Neutral Jedi rather than Light Side or Good Jedi. And is in part what has led the current OT Jedi into their current state.

Now, there is a line in the Code that states:

There is no emotion. There is only the Force.

Yet Obi-Wan in A New Hope tells Luke to trust his feelings at least twice. Feelings are emotions and there is no separation from the two since they are the same.

IIRC, Qui-Gon even tells Anakin to trust his feelings before the podrace.

Emotions are not things that can be turned on and off, to used one minute when it's convenient and ignored when they're not. To deny emotions is to force people to internalize all of their problems, probably like someone we all know.

I submit that the Jedi Code is a useless fabrication that needs to be ignored at every turn. It contradicts the better parts of human nature and denies what makes us all interesting and worthwhile.

 

On the contrary. I would argue that "feelings", in this context, have more to do with instinct than emotion. When told to "trust your feelings", I get the idea that you're being told to go with what feels right... perhaps where the Force is leading you.

Also, "There is no emotion. There is only the Force" calls one to a higher understanding of emotions and motivations to act. Certainly a Jedi will feel certain emotions welling up inside from time to time. However, I get the feeling that Jedi are trained to acknowldge their emotions, accept them, move past them, and let the Force guide their actions.

Then, there is always that whole, "from a certain point of view" cop-out.

 

Kier: "There is no emotion. There is only the Force."

That's not the Code as I know it.

The Code as I know it:
There is no ignorance; there is knowledge.
There is no emotion; there is peace.
There is no passion; there is serenity.
There is no death; there is the Force.

That was virtually taken from Lao Tze's 81 Chapters of Tao Te Ching (yes, the Jedi Code literally reflects/emulates/distorts the Taoist teachings).

I, too, dislike the Jedi Code. The Jedi essentially appear to be reflections of Taoism, in my opinion, but the code is a distortion of the Taoist teachings rather than an emulation of them. Taoism teaches acceptance. The Jedi Code as it is teaches avoidance.

The code wants them to avoid their emotions, but emotions are a natural part of life. Furthermore, the Force is created by life. The Jedi are contradicting themselves.

Luke's Jedi, in my opinion, are more true to the Force (life) then the old Jedi (who were trying to emulate robots while preaching about life). The old Jedi, in my book, are hypocrites who are ignorant of the fact.

 

On the contrary. I would argue that "feelings", in this context, have more to do with instinct than emotion. When told to "trust your feelings", I get the idea that you're being told to go with what feels right... perhaps where the Force is leading you.

Okay, I can accept that, although I suggest that 'instincts' might have been a better choice.

What about: 'bury your feelings deep down, Luke. They do you credit, but they could be your undoing [made to serve the Emperor]. Here it's feelings as emotions, not insticnts.

Also, "There is no emotion. There is only the Force" calls one to a higher understanding of emotions and motivations to act. Certainly a Jedi will feel certain emotions welling up inside from time to time. However, I get the feeling that Jedi are trained to acknowldge their emotions, accept them, move past them, and let the Force guide their actions.

Again, I don't like the interpretations and especially that the Force is more important than a person. Without people to utilize it, the Force is nothing. A religion that no one believes in is called history. So the who (people, Jedi, whatever) must be more important than the what (The Force). I guess it's what makes Anakin so interesting to me is that he is the only one with any real emotion, half bottled up and in turmoil as they are, while the other Jedi are so focused on denying their own that they haven't a clue how to react or even notice them in others.

Valyn: My mistake, I knew I misquoted it, and I was too lazy to go looking for it.

Gotta go walk the dog.

 

I concur with Valyn's statements.

The Old Order as it is portrayed are simply setting themselves up for a fall like the one that Anakin Skywalker was the cause of.

According to the old way, he became "too" attached to people, like his mother and Amidala.

But if viewed from a different perspective, it was not the (totally natural and good, IMO) connections with his loved ones that caused his fall, it was the demand that he sever such connections without ever having been trained or experienced in the pain that that severance could cause.

So really what the old way does is to avoid the possible problem of turning to the dark side by shutting off what is viewed as the problem...the development of emotional connections, rather than the real problem...the difficulty of controlling the emotions summoned by the loss of such connections.

As Valyn said, the Jedi are avoiding the problem rather than facing it. This evasion makes the old order weak, in that they have produced several generations of knights who each time they let someone into their heart run a greater risk of falling to the dark side.

 

Hey, Risste! Long time no see!

 

Ditto!

 

i agree that they probably meant instinct rather than emotion... however emotion just sounds alot better.

also i would agree that the code is no good.

it reminds me to much of the prime directive in star trek....

the jedi cannot remain apart from the galaxy.. they are not above the universe.

Luke has to change his ways or else the NJO will become exactly like the old one... detached...

 

"it reminds me to much of the prime directive in star trek.... "

And look how well that its respected. Its good to follow in times of peace but when it all hits the fan it get thrown right out the window. Kinda of like the Jedi code. It sounds great on paper but once its actually apply in real settings you get a lot of problems.

 

Risste,

The Old Order as it is portrayed are simply setting themselves up for a fall like the one that Anakin Skywalker was the cause of.

Agreed.

According to the old way, he became "too" attached to people, like his mother and Amidala.

But if viewed from a different perspective, it was not the (totally natural and good, IMO) connections with his loved ones that caused his fall, it was the demand that he sever such connections without ever having been trained or experienced in the pain that that severance could cause.

It's pretty hard to train someone for heartache. It's a dumb rule. In fact, the Order as it stands is in need of a shake up because they have become too conservative and can't react fast enough to counter what's coming. But essentially it boils down to they tried to keep him from things he either needed or wanted, which began with taking him away from his mother.

So really what the old way does is to avoid the possible problem of turning to the dark side by shutting off what is viewed as the problem...the development of emotional connections, rather than the real problem...the difficulty of controlling the emotions summoned by the loss of such connections.

Again, agreed- By attempting to prevent the worst possible outcome, they ensured it by following their mandate. The Code needs to be abandoned in order to prevent this in the future. However, since I have seen no mention to it in any of the novels, I'd say it's a safe bet it won't be an issue.

As Valyn said, the Jedi are avoiding the problem rather than facing it.

Actually, they faced it and handled it poorly.

This evasion makes the old order weak, in that they have produced several generations of knights who each time they let someone into their heart run a greater risk of falling to the dark side.

It's not that that causes the problem, rather the severence that comes after it that is.

 

One the contrary, it is how the code is interperted by the Jedi order. The prequel era Jedi, for the most part, interpert it too literally. But a looser interpertation allows for warmer Jedi, Jedi more like how they should be, not how they are in the Prequel era.

 

There is no ignorance; there is knowledge.
There is no emotion; there is peace.
There is no passion; there is serenity.
There is no death; there is the Force.

Let the Force be your guide for it is all the emotions and love any man will ever need
-Charles Phipps, Jedi Master

I stand by this

 

Prequel Jedi are too "cold" and emotionless. In I,Jedi Booster says something along the lines that a Corellian Jedi might not have cared for Mirax because of previous experience with them...

 

As Valyn said, the Jedi are avoiding the problem rather than facing it.

Actually, they faced it and handled it poorly.

Well, they tried to avoid it by not allowing the knights to make emotional connections.

This evasion makes the old order weak, in that they have produced several generations of knights who each time they let someone into their heart run a greater risk of falling to the dark side.

It's not that that causes the problem, rather the severence that comes after it that is.

Ah, but the severence is a natural part of the connection. Eventually, all die. All relationships must end. However, since the Jedi are taught not to make the connections in the first place, they never learn that eventually letting go is an integral part of loving someone.

The severance may be the direct cause of the pain and anger of a fall (to the dark side,) but the real cause I think is that the Jedi are not prepared for the loss of such connections because the Order is too busy trying to avoid the whole circumstance, by forbidding connections as a whole.

 

I often wondered about this topic myself. All in all, the exclusion of marital/family bonds is a bit ridiculous because jedi end up developing these bonds anyway with their masters and padawans. We all saw how inraged Obi-Wan, perhaps one of the most passive jedi, became when his master was slain before his eyes. Also, AOTC-spoiled JCers may recall a similar case (with out getting in to details), that deals with the loss of an ex-padawan and the consequences of that. The rule serves no purpose, because, by their very nature, huminoids are prone to these bonds.

 

Remember, that original WEG code is only a snippet of the Code. Look at the "TPM additions" for a view of the Jedi as truly good, as opposed to some "neutral Jedi."

It's the one first seen in Ryder's "Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace Scrapbook"

You have to take the Code as a whole. WotC's SWRPG core rulebok has all of the snippets at various places under the Jedi section.