Mini Series Official “The Acolyte” Series Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Agreed. Star Wars could really use a positive, well written romance right now.

Edit: And I say that as someone who isn’t even a fan of romance films.

 

Star Wars has always had orphans, and/ or people whose families were killed, as protagonists. So that’s a silly thing to pin on Disney as a Disney thing.

 

They all just kinda all die horribly as well or at least unnaturally
Han Stabbed
Satine stabbed
Padme dies of sadness
Ben dies giving his life
Kanan gets blown the **** up
Iden Versio and dell Meeko (Hask kills both)

There is literally only one romance in Star Wars that hasn’t ended in tragedy yet in the screen part of the universe that Merrin and Cal, but I would not be shocked if one or both die horribly in a third game.

seriously name a major on screen relationship implied or otherwise that doesn’t end in death.

At least Han and Leia got a good 24 years before they split up.

Even in the books which I have been rereading there hasn’t been a major relationship that successfully doesn’t end in death. There are minor ones but again for any of the protagonists it always ends horribly.

 

R2 and C-3PO?

Like you imply, I think, I would also say Han and Leia was portrayed as a sad, conflicted relationship in the end, after a sparky, will-they-won't-they relationship. Which was better than most. They evidently still loved one another and there was more water under the bridge to deal with, but they didn't kill each other. (But yes, their son killed them both, directly or indirectly - this is the way!).

The familial and romantic relationships in SW are often tragic and deadly. (You could add Lando and...everyone).

But at least the rest of the galaxy is OK, and not killing each other, right? Right..?

Dedra..? Anyone..?

 

Well, a woman falling in love with a man isn’t exactly on the spectrum of Disney+ preferred stories right now. They tone that down in all other outlets. But I agree. A really good romance was probably the unused gold mine of Star Wars going forward … and never got used.

 

Was? This franchise seems to still be alive to me.

 

This Franchise never been more alive. I am sure we will get back to romance.

 

My main concern regarding this variant is that the Jedi can't be too efficient (since the Sith will continue to be unnoticed until TPM), and if they will be portrayed as too ruthless in regard to another Dark side cults then the overall picture will be not pleasant, like with the NR in The Mandalorian season 3 - using brainwashing on former Imps, but allowing the real spy to succeed.

Yeah, Aphra is kinda an embodiment of it, since all of her romances are very toxic. Although with her current storyline and Andor

there is a chance that

Spoiler

evil people can have (relatively) healthy relationships with each other.

 

I can see that but i can see The Jedi Order being harsh to dark side religious groups. They banned anything Sith related. Nightsisters were distant from the other religious groups. Anything that went against the Jedi would be dangerous.

 

Yes, I was/am hoping for that with Dedra (and was suggesting it obscurely in my post) but I also really liked the way she was imperious to Syril. In Andor, even the good guys' relationships were not of the idealised (Disney?) kind.

If Dedra/Syril do have the kind of relationship you describe, it could just add to the brilliance of Andor. If they don't, that also fits with their characterisation.

So in the Acolyte, erm...

I could see an Acolyte (or more) being portrayed as loner-types without much interest in relationships with others (as is fitting with Sith power-seeking) or perhaps they could have double-lives, like something out of The Americans.

Could this even be the SW Americans?

 

Let's not conveniently forget that the OT ended happily ever after. It was the ST that decided to destroy Han and Leia, who survived countless Legends novels together even despite losing two of their children.

However, my argument differs from the post I shared above when it comes to tragedy, which I agree has always been a part of SW.

Nevertheless, I agree with that poster's critique of the fear of portraying romantic love in Disney era SW. I don't care what form the romantic love comes in, binary, non-binary, whatever, but I maintain that this is a fundamental element to many narratives, especially those in the adventure and war genres. Because, what is all the dying good for if you can't have something powerful to fight for? And something abstract like "freedom" or "peace" is abstract unless you dramatize the benefits of those things concretely, through actual relationships.

Are people dying for freedom mostly because they want to maintain their friendships at home? While friendship is certainly a key element of human lives, I don't intend to diminish it, the powerful motive to fight and die is for family and the love bonds that form them.

So I maintain we are in an era of frigid or toxic relationships, anything viewed as "authentic" is unprivileged for likely a variety of reasons, some of which I may not even disagree with. And I also think this is less about Disney and more about the generational perspective of creatives who have been in charge since LFL left Lucas. Some of them hold values I actually share: traditional family structures are toxic. Portraying anything close to a traditional romantic relationship is too conservative or even potentially sexist. But rather than trying to portray these things in more contemporary, functional ways that still convey love and emotion, they do the easy thing which is just to not represent such relationships at all. And this lack of representation now seems to be leaking in to mute other relationships between friends and found family members. Hence, the strangely muted reunions of Ahsoka.

This trend is a mistake because romantic love, in whatever form we decide to represent it in, will always be a fundamental of the human experience. What are we fighting for in Star Wars? It's never just a principle or idea; it's so future generations can continue to love and thrive.

 

I agree with the above and couldn’t say it any better.

It is a bit strange all the Star Wars characters are happy to live like monks really. For Jedi there is at least some dogmatic justification (which would make a love story more interesting). But I hope Star Wars explores one of the most powerful human motivations eventually.

 

It’s just the Jedi that follow a no attachments philosophy. And that distinguishes them as a cultural group. And I think many fans simply find it to be an interesting distinguishing feature. People who serve the greater good and not themselves or their family units. Star Wars has, and is free to, explore non-Jedi romantic relationships to its heart’s content.

 

The most romance Star Wars has got with Jedi are Avar Kriss and Elzar Maan.

 

Or something like Bane and Githany's case - both mutual affection and readiness to betray for more power.

 

strictly between Jedi?
Luke skywalker and Mara Jade
Revan and Bastila.

Star Wars has had plenty of Jedi in romantic relationships, whether approved by the council or not

 

Mara wasent a jedi when first met. Dont know if romance started before or after being a Jedi. And Revan and Bastilla yes, they like Old Republic version of Ben and Rey. But Jedi romanes dont last, wether both are Jedi or not. Its against the Jedi Code.

 

Yeah, I don't see that at all. The OT had Han and Leia, that was it, and it was anything but a traditional relationship. Apart fromthat maybe you can count Owen and Beru, but they weren't exactly in the movie for their love-story and quickly died a horrible death. The PT obviously had the main story of Anakin and Padme, which had to be doomed, as that was the entire point, outside of that there was absolutely nothing. The closest we got were scenes with Padme's family that got cut.
Star Wars isn't staying away from something it used to do, it is just doing what it has always done. Pretending that this is something that the franchise has lost, or that is necessary for it to succeed, just don't fit to its actual history.

You are also contradicting yourself. What happened to Han and Leia in the ST was very much authentic. Couples get estranged all the time, especially when something tragic happens in the family. Yet here you are, describe it as "destroying" the relationship of the characters. So what is it? Either you want to have something authentic, then the story very much fits that mold (though it is certainly not the only way for it to be authentic), or it must be forced to be happy, it cannot be both at the same time.

There is also no reason to assume that traditional relationships are in any way deemed to be "too conservative", and they sure as heck aren't deemed "potentially sexist", such a statement is just absurd to say the least.
And no matter how much certain outlandish circles love to pretend otherwise, Disney isn't a progressive company at all. They are still largely a conservative entity that focuses on family. It's just conservative in the actual sense of the word, not in the way of certain weirdos that pretend that they are still conservative when they are very much not.

 

I wouldn't mind seeing this emotional confrontations that are said to occur and see a relationship bloom from it. Start out fighting whether it's Jedi v Sith and then have them fall in love. If this happens then they would swear to each other not to reveal the Sith to the Jedi? I don't see a Jedi putting a relationship above his duties (I see you Anakin) but then again, if I were a Jedi hooking up with Amanda Stenberg or Dafne...see ya gold robe.
This show is gonna be a dark mystery and sounds like a lot of fun. Maybe it will be cheesy but that will fit right in with the PT. I can imagine seeing a Sith behind the scenes so that would be amazing (I see you Plagueis!). Neimodians, droids ...Jedi sweet!!

I think we will get this either on May 4th or on 25th like Kenobi was.

 

The idea of a Jedi/Sith romance in this show crossed my mind too. I'm not sure how they'd do it, but it could potentially be very interesting.

 

Sounds like something like that would happen sometimes. Maybe old Republic Jedi and sith were scorned lovers.

 

If books count, Captain Xiri and Prince Phan-Tu. As well, the Jedi order did not outlaw sex for their members. It was their own choice to risk attachment.

 

All High Republic Jedi had sex, even the old geezers.

 

I can’t believe I forgot them. lol.



@Fredrik Vallestrand as far as I know from reading the adult high republic novels. Relationships are still dissuaded from happening. But the Jedi order doesn’t get in a tiffy if some padawans have googly eyes for each other. Although it’s expected any such relationship will be ended by knighthood.