Official Legacy of the Force: Bloodlines Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Alema is the new Asajj?

 

In not so many words: Yes.

Jacen has a few of Dooku's aspects in him at the moment. He can use Alema to divert attention away from himself and Lumiya for a bit, gain some time. He'll play her off, saying he can help her get revenge on Luke and Leia if she helps him.

 

Personally, I'm enjoying the LOTF storyline so far. Having a set series of authors is a huge plus for the Star Wars line, as having too many different styles and points of view has led to some bad calls/novels in my eyes(Jedi Trial? The only trial is trying to read that thing...I couldn't after the seventy-fifth run-on-scentence-paragraph-thing;how did it pass muster?) Allston, Denning, and Traviss are all favored authors to me, so that worry has been taken care of already.

It's interesting to see Alema's re-entry into the storyline. With the dark nest destroyed, it'll be intriguing to see if she has any subsequent withdrawls concerning such. Her 'balance' approach is ironic, since she's always been a center of conflict. The fact that she's a bit of a mutant now probably won't help either...

I honestly didn't fight the Boba Fett story at all. I've always been huge fan concerning the new-ish Mandalore, and since his last really solid foray in novels resulted in a so-so trilogy, I'm glad Traviss has decided to expound on him more. I see the mandalorians playing a sizeable role in the upcoming conflict, so having he and his family situation detailed more fully was nothing but a pleasure for me.

I've never really liked Jacen Solo, but he's really pushing it now. He's gone from pacifist whiner to subtle manipulator, with a nice segway into cold-blooded murderer and justification addicted sith-in-training. He's walking near exactly the path of his grandfather, whether he wants to admit it or not.

Jaina needs to clean house and reassert herself after being a weak killik pawn, and Corellia stands to recieve directly what it deserves. Fett nailed it right on the head, when in noting that if a man like Sal-Solo could continually get elected to high office despite affront after affront, they deserved to reap the fruits of their own stupidity. All in all, I'm excited to see what happens next in the line itself.

 

I'm enjoying it as well.

Oddly, though we see a lot less actions, it feels like a lot more. These characters, and everything that's happening to them, feels very real and hence a lot like action. The whole Sith Pov thing is fantastic, and to see things, events, slowly unraveling is fascinating.

For all those pages some books waste describing an action scene, nothing is more exciting than a good conversation with a Sith.

That's why I loved "Traitor", So much great action and so much great dialogue, made only better with LotF.


And I'm loving Lotf

 

I liked Asajj and Dooku though

Yeah I'm enjoying it. Action is good but if there's too much it can get abit monotonous, at least in my opinion anyway.

The reason I'm hoping to see Jacen take both Alema and Raynar under his wing is because I want Jacen to be the one who starts the new Sith Order. Even if he isn't Darth Krayt. Whether he does or not though, I hope they put Raynar back to use. After being isolated from the Killiks he probably isn't totally sane himself. Isanity always makes for interesting characters.

 

Hmm.

Dooku = Jacen

Asaaj = Alema

Durge = Raynar?

Quinlan = Ben?

so on.

 

Didn't Jacen originally wish to learn the Sith ways so he could have the power to make the galaxy safe for his daughter? Now, in order to make the galaxy safe for his daughter, he has to kill her.

I have a feeling Lumya has somthing else up her sleeve. I can see it now:

(Jacen kills his daughter and her mother)
Lumya: "Nope, you're not a Sith yet."

(Jacen kills some friends)
Lumya: "Nope, not quite."

(Jacen wipes out dozens of Jedi)
Lumya: "Close but you're not there yet. I don't know, maybe your uncle will will be it..."



Take care,

Jay

 

Truely great Sith Lords are only so because they've been driven to insanity. What we would abhor, would make sense to them.

That's the only redeeming quality about Jacen. I never really liked him, due to his arrogance about his Force abilities, but now it fits his character. Anakin Skywalker was "tricked" into killing his wife and unborn child, but Jacen deducted that the only way to keep his loved ones truly safe was to kill them himself and make them one with the Force.

I'm truly enjoying the LOTF so far, and I love Karen Traviss' work with the Mandalorians. It's amusing to that see Boba Fett, the most famous Mando in the modern era of Star Wars, also is the most ignorant of his culture.

The only way to ruin this series is to complete it with a hokey "return to the light" with Jacen.

I'm unsure if the Legacy comic fits in with this continuity though, maybe it'll be scrapped as one hundred years from ANH is only sixty from LOTF (about), and we're led to believe all these characters are dead? Especially considering Boba Fett is still bounty hunting at 70+ years of age.

Bravo to Allston, Travis, and Denning! (well, I'll wait 'til Tempest on that last one)

 

Jacen Solo's push to fill the huge void left by the virtually incomprehensible death of Anakin, who was the real hope of the New Jedi Order, was bad enough.(BTW, did Lucas ever comment on why he chose to kill him off?) Han's verbal beatdown given to him near the end of Bloodlines was much deserved; too bad it didn't seem to phase him in the least. He needs to go. Viva Anakin's resurrection, which would likely make more sense than killing him in the first place did.

 

That was the original idea as seen in Dark Nest. Now, he's moved up a notch and believes more in his destiny as savior of the galaxy. He's plagued by the idea that the galaxy won't ever know a period without war until he's brought lasting peace.
Now that he's sacrificing everything to shape a better galaxy, he's really running with the Jedi idea of selflessness. Unfortunately, he hasn't worked the Jedi idea of compassion into that.

And really, Jacen's actions are not as automatically bad as we'd like to believe. He's opffering himself as a tool of the force to bring the galaxy into balance. When he's doing bad things, he's doing them to "enable the flow of the force" to a point where finally every antagonistic force is silenced, and the galaxy has become a paradise.
Ever seen "Serenity", the movie? The government agent killing for peace sums it up nicely - he's doing the dirty work that needs to be done in order for the new, perfect world to come into being. But he himself has no place in this future. Look at Jacen - he's remaining silent when others divide the cake of future positions of power.

I only wonder whether the authors will keep Jacen on this path of "absolute selflessness", which would make him somewhat redeemable/self-redeeming as soon as the Force signals him that he's screwing up big time. But I'm afraid they'll let him slide to the dark side further, and finally he'll lose it, picturing himself as Emperor because nobody else can do the job.

As for the moralistic questions raised, TPTB look at their arguments from the NJO from a new angle, as people tended to not get their point (as I see it, at least many people didn't accept the discussion raised).

Do the ends justify the means or not?

Ironically, it always falls down to Jacen (SW is male-biased, after all...).
In NJO, he's the one not doing anything because it might be bad (which is actually based on Anakin Solo's initial fear of becoming a new Vader), with Luke being close behind, but finally starting to fight. Even in the end, Jacen "stands firm" and consciously declines Zonama Sekot's offer of applying destructive force. Luke accepts without hesitation, btw, because in the end, he's got a history of bringing peace by blowing stuff up.
Here, Jacen has a hippie point of view, arguing that you can't bring peace by not acting peacefully. The ends never justify the means.

Now, in LOTF, he's 180 degrees around. Suddenly, the ends DO justify the means for Jacen.
So in the end, we still have to answer the same question that the NJO already asked: Do the ends justify the means or not? Can you bring peace by waging war? If yes, how much war is okay? When is it too much? Is a midnight raid okay if it counters a terrorist threat? Is torture okay if it potentially saves lives?


Obi-Wan said, "only the Sith deal in absolutes". Well, Jacen does, but he did so before Vergere was around. No matter if he's out for peace through violence or peace through, well, peace, it's always in the extremes.
And I really like the irony that Jacen is still hated by most readers for acting exactly the other way round now.


As for the question of the galaxy being ever free of war, Jacen's blind as he doesn't see that you can't solve the galaxy's troubles once and for all. Everything's evolving again and again. It's not entirely his fault, though; he's been brought up in difficult times. Earlier periods didn't have wars at all. But Jacen lives in the times of Del Rey, so he's bound to be confronted with galaxy-spanning catastrophes as long as there's a publication deal. Imagine what would have become of the boy if he'd continued solving problems like in YJK, back when Dark Jedi armies and fatal plagues could be fought back without the risk of character evolution or government shredding.

 

Is Lumiya aware of Tenel Ka and Allana?
I don't have Bloodlines at hand right now but doesn't Lumiya tell Jacen to kill those he love, Jacen then makes the decision to knock off Tenel Ka and Allana but maybe Lumiya's intentions was that Jacen would bump off mom and dad, Jaina and maybe Luke as these are the persons who would have biggest chance of stopping her plans. She very likely hate Leia, Han and Luke ( no matter what Jacen thinks he feels from Lumiya during her meeting with Luke) for foiling her schemes in the past.

 

This would be a truly great plot element!
It would show Lumiya losing control of her neat little plan, creating random chaos by not knowing everything (right now, she seems to be too perfect). But somehow, I doubt they would weaken Lumiya that early in the series. She most probably only wants him to go all the way at this point, and maybe she's believing in this prophecy stuff herself, accepting it in any way it manifests.
Your theory would work together well with Lumiya only using Jacen as a pawn to get to Ben and have her revenge on Luke. Jacen could then pull a Ulic and betray his Sith partner after he realizes what he's done.

 

I thought I remember in Betrayl that Lumyia said for Jacen to NOT make Ben his apprentice?

What is up with that in Bloodlines she said nothing about it at all.

 

Remember that CD int he back of TUF? It explains why Anakin was killed off. It had nothing to do with George.

 

Who's Eomer -- uh, Skorr?

 

She can change her mind....

 

I know quite a few people think the real prize for Lumiya is actually Ben, and she's just using Jacen as a means to train the boy. In which case, I imagine what she said in Betrayal was simply to throw Jacen off the scent.

 

NelanisGhost and Grey1, thank you for the Anakin clarifications. I'll check that cd for sure.

 

Dont Forget:

Palpatine = Lumiya

Grievous = Lets not get carried away, boys and girls.

 

I was going to put that in, but for some reason, didn't. hm.

Grievous = Anakin?

 

Droid Anakin from LotF: The last thing I remember was being blown up, and when I woke up I was a gonk droid.

It's like Kafka in space.

 

Even now as he realizes he is turning dark he is saying he is just a part of the force doing his job-he understands that he is to blame yet it seems he hasn't yet accepted it. He (to me anyway) seems above everything he does, and although he sometimes feel pain about it he is rightous. I was really glad that Han finally said that Jacen wasn't the same-and although what he did was painful it was necessary.

I was also disopointed in Mara's perception of Jacen's character and her inabilty to see what was truly going on. Her reaction and her theory seemcomplealty alien to Mara who I would have thought would have the sharpest senses when it came to the darkside.

 

Regarding Ben, Lumiya did say Ben was developing in such a way as to be a good Sith Apprentice. In Betrayal her comment to Jacen was phrased in such a way that it was almost a challenge.

Jacen is mind bogglingly naive with regard to Lumiya. Just because she doesn't try to kill Luke doesn't mean she is safe, sincere, or not out for revenge. But then Jacen has been pretty mentally warped since Traitor and worse, he not only fails to realise it but thinks the experience bettered him. Jacen's a psychological mess and a therapists nightmare since he A: won't admit he has a problem and B: doesn't confide in anyone. He also has weird abilities and a disturbing belief that he alone can fix the world.

Is it just me or does Jacen's mentality remind me of cult members? He certainly has that mental tunnel vision and zeal of a convert.

If Jacen becomes a full Sith a conflict with Luke is inevitable whether or not he or Han and Leia become Jacen's sacrifice. Lumiya won't have to push Jacen that hard to get him to go after Luke.

I don't think Luke will die in LOTF though if he does it will be in the final books. My money is the sacrifice being Mara. There is plenty of foreshadowing since Jacen thinks at one point that Mara is among his few friends. There is also the chummy scene early in Betrayal and the fact that Jacen seems to respect her more than Luke.

If Jacen wantys to bring Order then killing Tenel Ka and Allana is a lovely way of doing it since it kills the Queen Mother and heir of Hapes and would trigger a free-for-all fight for the throne. If Jacen was really interested in making a true sacrifice he would give up his feelings and relationship to Tenel Ka and Allana (which are his) and not their lives (which are not). I think this is where he will ultimately go since I can see Jacen telling himself that since his girlfriend and daughter despise him he has killed their feelings for him. This would tie in with Lumiya's comments on being hated.

 

Something I should point out regarding the Corellian material, apologies if it's already been discussed:

Centerpoint Station contradicts ANH. Thus, because ANH is a film, and Centerpoint Station appears only in books, guess what?

Centerpoint gets the boot.

Why? Because when they're approaching the Death Star, Solo says it's too big to be a space station. He wouldn't have said that if he came from a system that contained Centerpoint.

 

But Centerpoint was an insanely old relic. Nothing modern approached it in scale.