Mini Series Official "Obi-Wan Kenobi" Series Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

The hypothesis that Anakin and now Vader has not reached his full potential is a lame excuse to justify why he lost every time against Obi Wan.

Vader in ROTS was one of the most powerful Jedi. Already a Jedi knight, hero of the Clone Wars. In The new series 10 years after ROTS Vader was in his dark side prime already, having trained 10 years with Palpatine. In both instances he was in his prime.

What people miss is that “power” does not make you stronger, rather it is in the connection with the Force, and how skillful you are in wielding that connection.

This is analog to any sports, you can have more speed or leg power to play soccer, football or tennis you name it, but it is the ability to use the skill and the mental agility and speed during a game that makes a player better. Not if you can kick, slide or hit harder.

Obi Wan’s connection with the force is clearly fine tuned, that is how he could best anyone.


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To paraphrase my friend @Dandelo, “its all plot relevant, its whoever needs to win the duel according to the plot.”

 

Agreed.

 

I do acknowledge Obiwan is powerful in his own right. However, Obiwan didn't overpower Vader in RotS to earn the victory. In the TV show, Obiwan has cut himself off from the force, and Vader is peak dark side. Buried and in a somewhat cheesy and bizarre motivation scene, Obiwan recalls the kids to pull himself out from under a bunch of rocks and put a flat out street walloping on Vader. Obviously, there is evidence Obiwan can defeat Vader, but not dominate him. The show paints Vader impulsive and lacking judgment, have him lose that way again (similiar to RotS), so then he finally gets it in ANH, where he finally understands why Obiwan is the master. Now we have Vader losing two different ways to Obiwan and he's telling him on the Death Star I'm now the master? Vader sounds like an idiot! Its beyond belief.

Agreed. It took me a bit to come to terms with the "high ground" loss, but you basically summed up how I understand Obiwan defeated Vader in RotS.

Dude was burned up, left for dead, lost his family/friends. Revenge on Obiwan is the one thing on his mind. The fight didn't show me the desperation Vader would have had until the end if the direction was to go Obiwan win. He waited 10 years for this and you showing him going out like this? Especially when the episode prior where they have him tearing apart spaceships and toying with Reva (I get she is nowhere Obiwan's power/experience but the contrast between those two fights is striking).

I can agree with you on Vader prime in RotS and the Obiwan show. But that makes it problematic. It makes Obiwan's victory not realistic. 100% disagree on Obiwan's connection to the force does it for him. He's cut himself off/lost faith in the force when we meet him in the TV show. He reconnects relatively recently and he is better than 10 years dark side Vader!?

Agreed. That said, Disney owes us something believable, not a bogus duel like we got. Is Disney even capable of approving a Vader win script in the first place? He's evil, and evil triumphing over good isn't something Disney does.

 

Its ok to let antagonist win sometimes so that the protagonist learns, grows, and wins the final duel.

Hopefully The Acolyte will feat a darksider win a duel.

 

@DarthPivot I owe an answer as to why I think Obi Wan’s victory over Vader is believable….I do not have a very sophisticated reason….it is movie/tv/fantasy….it just looks believable. I buy it. Obi Wan is a powerful Jedi, that found the spark again to reconnect with the Force, and his connection with the light side seems stronger and in more fine tune than Vader’s with the dark side.

And to your comment that he found that connection very recently in the show…I really do not mind. Using the force is not like flexing muscles, it is like a spiritual/mind connection. It does not need to take long. Same happened with Luke in TLJ. The more pedestrian analogy is like riding a bike or swimming. You never forget how to do it even if you pause for years.

Agree that Vader looked like he was depowered in the show….but you can also argue that it was more like Obi Wan was powered up….after all Vader remains the most feared character everywhere else. Only defeated by Obi Wan and his son.


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I mentioned that Obi-wan had killed a Sith Lord before—I meant Darth Maul. What I find interesting is that Darth Maul had the high ground and a huge advantage there.
That said, I suspect Vader was compromised emotionally—by which I mean he may have been genuinely afraid to come face-to-face with his old master. We saw Obi-wan gradually grow in power throughout the series, which I imagine took Vader off-guard.

 

“To me she will always be royalty.”

 

The behind the scenes documentary is out in certain countries (releases at midnight in every timezone)

 

Vader in Rebels basically mopped the floor with everyone (Ahsoka got in a last second slash to temporarily incapacitate him) I thought he was pretty powerful here, especially holding back the ship. Obi-Wan has the light side power which he uses in a moment of crisis to defeat Vader by Lifting Rock and then beating Vader the hell out of it with them. And he basically broke Vader's breathing apparatus, the only way to defeat Vader is basically to cheat and break him.

 

Nobody cheated, Obi Wan kicked his butt, really, really bad….twice already. No more rematches now


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And in ANH he let Vader win.

 

A Jedi's Return doc was perfectly fine, but I'm really surprised by how little new information there was. The vast majority of it was just descriptions of the characters and their journeys and some of the actors' personal feelings toward their characters and Star Wars on a whole. There wasn't much new pertaining to actual storytelling choices that were made.

I certainly dug some of the new BTS footage from the OT and the PT of course. Not sure we ever saw Ewan's first ever meeting with George in prep for TPM. His giddy boyish laugh turning around to meet Lucas was fantastic.

 

I just watched A Jedi’s Return as well. It was fun to watch. It even got me in the feels at times. The biggest thing that surprised me was that they actually de-aged Ewan and Hayden for the flashback sequence. So many of us (me included) said that they should’ve done that for Hayden. I guess they did what they could without it looking fake.

 

I think they just wanted a scene with Hayden as Anakin Skywalker—even if he looked rather old. I might have liked to at least see them doing some action sequence (perhaps fighting battle droids), which would have shown something more key to their characters.

 

Yes, but we already were aware of that.

 

And the scene in the episode is also far more key to what's going on in the present than them fighting battle droids would be.

 

I understand, but I prefer what we got, to be honest. We've also seen Anakin fighting droids and there isn't much in terms of character growth to be obtain from seeing that again. However, the sparring scene we got gave great insight to what is going on in the mind of both characters in present time (something particularly valuable for Vader) and gave context to the decisions both characters made in chapter 6. I honestly didn't feel it was a gratuitous scene for nostalgia's sake, but a rather important scene to understand the characters motivations and feelings. At least that's how I saw it, and that's why I liked it!

 

Perhaps—but perhaps they could have done both and thus made the character development of Anakin being a learner be told when they were in more of a fix and they were in more trouble.

 

Although unlikely, I wonder what it would be like if OWK was your entry point into SW (or anything prequel-ly).

Must be quite exciting I think.

 

The biggest problem with watching SW chronologically for someone new to the GFFA is that you undercut the effect of the two great reveals in ESB; the annoyingly curious little green guy turning out to be the Jedi Master Yoda, and of course the "No, I am your father" moment.

 

The Prequels were probably mine actually, which might explain why I have more of an appreciation for Jar Jar Binks than some people—I had no particular preconceived notion of what Star Wars was supposed to be. I think the same was the case for many people born in the 90's or the twenty-first century.

But the Obi-wan Kenobi show would probably be a confusing place to begin.