Official SURVIVOR'S QUEST Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)...

Thrawn McEwok, sounds like you are seriously trying to create some new EU FOLKLORE along the lines of Boba Fett was the Mayor of Sernpidal!

 

Stent, who died in Red Sky, Blue Flame, is still alive three years later.

Whoops... are you sure that he's the same guy?


Some of the politics in this book sound a bit like the politics in WWI

 

The Gatherer: sure!

But I think that's warranted by the way Zahn set up the novel... Formbi, as a character in himself, is great, and I'm sorry to loose him if he does turn out to be Thrawn playing a part (with the caveat that if so, there probably is/was a real Aristocra Formbi out there somewhere who married Thrawn's sister)... but the whole point is the ambiguity...

Then again, it seems clear that Formbi didn't get Outbound Flight's location from the Empire of the Hand... but he did know where it was. It's a McGuffin. It was there to be used as and when it was needed. The whole thing about the scoutship is a lie.

And I suspect that, if it wasn't in the Empire's records, the only person who would know where it was would be... you guessed it...

Thrawn...

Jedi Trilobite: he's the same Stent who was in Vision of the Future. As was the Stent who died in Red Sky, Blue Flame...

Like I said, it's a hilarious mess... the only way of retconning it is by concluding that something is a lie...

Which is, of course, entirely the point...

Given Formbi's odd reaction when Mara quotes Stent to him on those thousand terrible threats, I guess it's possible that Stent died, and 'Stent' is a clone...

- The Imperial Ewok

 

Now I can't wait for the book. Think I'll be getting it tomorrow. Is it hardback?

 

Yes its hardback, Spike. My copy came by UPS today (thanks BOOKSAMILLION! )


edit: for the person who wanted the exact page count, I have exactly 5-6 minutes left to say its 368 pages

 

Out of curiosity, what is the exact page count?

 

Damn, that means its gonna be expensive

 

It's a normal hardcover price.

 

eh... I think that it's about 18 here.

 

I didn't look at the price when I saw it on shelfs today

 

If it becomes a new york times bestseller, there's a chance it COULD be 30% off. Also, check to see if its ever a recommended by staff pick, sometimes those are discounted at stores like Barnes and Noble & Borders (and even Mall stores like B.Dalton & Waldens).

 

Sounds more and more interesting. Plenty of material for conspiracy theories, apparently.

 

A couple of questions ...

1) What kind of name is Formbi? Sounds un-chissy. Could this maybe be a wordplay? -bi like two or both, and Form as form?

2) What about the second book by Zahn? Is it related to this one and when does it take place?

3) Apparently in FH, Mara and Luke don't tell anything about this adventure (of course because it wasn't written then), and given their knowledge about the Empire of the Hand, shouldn't they have been a little more suspicious towards Jagged Fel during the NJO?

4) Since it doesn't surface during the NJO, I guess the Empire of the Hand will go down in the second book by Zahn ...

5) Did Elaine Cunningham contact Zahn about killing of Stent in Red Sky, Blue Flame?

6) Will Troy Denning use any of this in his post-NJO trilogy? (NO-OOOOOOOO: Luke, Leia, Mara, Han against the Empire of the Hand lead by Thrawnbi)

7) Is it funny or annoying that Zahn fixes his galaxy again ... except it isn't his galaxy.

8) With everybody getting cloned again - what about a mad Chewbacca clone tearing out arms at random?

 

All this talk about the second book, that's the Outbound Flight novel, right? SQ is stand alone, not a duology, right?

EDIT: Thanks, Pelranius. I thought so.

 

It's the Outbound Flight one.

 

8) With everybody getting cloned again - what about a mad Chewbacca clone tearing out arms at random?

Well the real one ain't dead yet.

 

killfire: A couple of questions ...

1) What kind of name is Formbi? Sounds un-chissy. Could this maybe be a wordplay? -bi like two or both, and Form as form?

"Form B"? A second appearance by the Grand Admiral? I'm sure I remember someone once saying they'd always thought of Thrawn looking oddly like pre-pop ukelele maestro George Formby... just wish I could find it...

2) What about the second book by Zahn? Is it related to this one and when does it take place?

It's a prequel to it, set fifty years earlier. Young Thrawn vs. Jorus C'baoth vs. Kinman Dorian vs. Vagaari vs. (at a guess) Yuuzhan Vong vs. (wild speculation) Car'das...

3) Apparently in FH, Mara and Luke don't tell anything about this adventure (of course because it wasn't written then), and given their knowledge about the Empire of the Hand, shouldn't they have been a little more suspicious towards Jagged Fel during the NJO?

Nah. The Empire of the Hand are the good guys in the Unknown Regions. What's to be suspicious of? When the idea sneaks in that Syndic Mitth'raw'nuruodo's Household Phalanx are just working for the Chiss, that seems odd, though... though it did at the time, inasmuch as it really goes in the face of VotF in the first place...

Then again, Syal Antilles Fel is the GFFA's greatest actress...

4) Since it doesn't surface during the NJO, I guess the Empire of the Hand will go down in the second book by Zahn ...

I was suspecting it would go down in this one, actually. Its absence in the NJO is... troubling. It doesn't seem to map into Jag's worldview at all. Though very few people in the NR/Alliance know about its existance - Luke, Mara and presumably Car'das... and Pellaeon, over on Bastion...

And in rl, I assume Michael Stackpole knew about it.

I guess they don't want to disturb everyone who objects to the Empire on dogmatic principal by pointing out that's still actually there, but just kinda... shifted sideways, I suppose.

5) Did Elaine Cunningham contact Zahn about killing of Stent in Red Sky, Blue Flame?

Presumably not

Then again, I'll need to re-read Jag's POV in Dark Journey... that always struck me that it could be read both ways...

6) Will Troy Denning use any of this in his post-NJO trilogy? (NO-OOOOOOOO: Luke, Leia, Mara, Han against the Empire of the Hand lead by Thrawnbi)

Who would want to fight the Empire of the Hand? Mara agrees that she was sorely tempted to defect, and Luke agrees that he'd have gone with her if he did.

I'm going to have to look over VotF again, because I'm starting to have to scratch some thoughts that I thought I could just put down to my being an oversuspicious Ewok.

7) Is it funny or annoying that Zahn fixes his galaxy again ... except it isn't his galaxy.

Oh, it's funny. This isn't just Zahn 'fixing this mess' again... he's playing what look like fun and funky postmodernist games with POV, imagery, and the absolute power of the storyteller...

And also making some serious points about what it means to be a Jedi...

8) With everybody getting cloned again - what about a mad Chewbacca clone tearing out arms at random?

I think you're thinking of Palbacca from the Scourge of the Nevoota Bee arc...

- The Imperial Ewok

 

1) What kind of name is Formbi? Sounds un-chissy. Could this maybe be a wordplay? -bi like two or both, and Form as form?

All Chiss names have 3 strings to them, and the Basic form of the name is taken from the middle of those strings. They take the middle string, and then add one or two letters from either side of it to make the name. Hence Mitth'raw'nuorodo becomes Thrawn, while Chaf'orm'binatrano becomes Formbi and Prard'ras'kleoni becomes Drask. Whether it is a word play or not can't really be known without asking Zahn.

2) What about the second book by Zahn? Is it related to this one and when does it take place?

This is the novel based on the Outbound Flight Project itself that will be set during the Clone Wars. The relationship between the two is the OFP itself.

3) Apparently in FH, Mara and Luke don't tell anything about this adventure (of course because it wasn't written then), and given their knowledge about the Empire of the Hand, shouldn't they have been a little more suspicious towards Jagged Fel during the NJO?

The only contact through all of SQ that Luke and Mara have with the Empire of the Hand is the initial contact with them at Niruan, and then the 501st during the mission. Since they learnt a lot more about them during their first encounter in the HoT duology, and know little more about the Fel family, why should they be more suspicious. If anything, they'd be less.

4) Since it doesn't surface during the NJO, I guess the Empire of the Hand will go down in the second book by Zahn ...

The "Empire of the Hand" is the name for the phalanx of Mitth'raw'nuorodo that is based out of the "Hand of Thrawn". They just don't refer to themselves as that during the NJO, and I have a theory on that below.

5) Did Elaine Cunningham contact Zahn about killing of Stent in Red Sky, Blue Flame?

Why? The character is LucasFilm/Book's, not Zahn's.

6) Will Troy Denning use any of this in his post-NJO trilogy? (NO-OOOOOOOO: Luke, Leia, Mara, Han against the Empire of the Hand lead by Thrawnbi)

We won't know for a while yet since we have nothing other than there is a trilogy, set after the NJO, written by Denning.

7) Is it funny or annoying that Zahn fixes his galaxy again ... except it isn't his galaxy.

??

8) With everybody getting cloned again - what about a mad Chewbacca clone tearing out arms at random?

Okay, I personally don't subscribe to the theory that Formbi is actually Thrawn. I think that's a red-herring thrown in there to actually give a bit more insight into the Chiss as a whole, since mostly it seems as if Thrawn is viewed as an absolute anomaly in Chiss society, when it looks to me as if it was just his proactive view of things that set him apart from other Chiss. We've seen glimpses of the fact that all Chiss are skilled tacticians.




In regards to this whole Stent issue, I can't see why Red Sky, Blue Flame can't be set after the events of SQ. There is nothing in the short story that actually gives it an exact placing. In fact, during the story it looks more like the Houses are giving more support to the Empire of the Hand than they did during either the HoT duology, or SQ. So that could lend itself to meaning that RS,BF is set after SQ, with the events in SQ leading to more of a connection between the EotH and the Houses. This would also explain a little more why they don't call themselves the Empire of the Hand in the NJO, both because of the images conjured up for people of the New Republic, and also drawing themselves closer to the Chiss Houses by referring to themselves as an extention of Chiss society by calling themselves publicly the Phalanx of Mitth'raw'nuorodo.

 

Well, early on in the Vong war, they didn't want poor Fey'lya to be distracted by the thought of another Imperial remnant faction, did they?

 

Dingo: All Chiss names have 3 strings to them, and the Basic form of the name is taken from the middle of those strings. They take the middle string, and then add one or two letters from either side of it to make the name. Hence Mitth'raw'nuorodo becomes Thrawn, while Chaf'orm'binatrano becomes Formbi and Prard'ras'kleoni becomes Drask. Whether it is a word play or not can't really be known without asking Zahn.

Well, the name "Thrawn" certainly is a Zahny pun... but what interests me is the exact pattern here...

In the NJO, it seemed to be was implied that the back element was the House name ("Shawnkyr Nuruodo", and whatever - but then, those names were differently structured... even "Hess'irolia'nuruodo" doesn't quite work as it should, does it?)... It's possible that we can explain these as representing differences of transcription and orthography, respectively...

But regardless, in SQ, the first element clearly implies some sort of relationship (cf the fact that Formbi and his niece Feesa both have the initial "Chaf'-" element, and their ship is the Chaf Envoy - and then there was that other officer related to Drask, with the name beginning "Prard'-")...

But Formbi anounces himself as representing the "Fifth Ruling House, Sarkli", which has a name that doesn't occur in his name or Feesa's name at all...

Unless we're assuming a massive conspiracy of misdirection on the part of the Chiss somewhere (or Zahn getting understandably tetchy that no-one asked him how Chiss names worked), I guess we have to accept that the -'nuruodo in Thrawn's name, combined with the presence of people with the 'surname' "Nuruodo" in his Household Phalanx suggests that he is associated with "House Nuruodo"...

I guess it's possible that there's a tertiary pattern here, core name plus House name. This would mean that "Shawnkyr" is actually a Core Name like "Thrawn"... "-'awnk'- or "-'awnky'-" seems awkward as a central element - but if so, a third element other than -'nuruodo would certainly be implied if this was the case...

So for instance Feesa might grudgingly allow herself to be known as "Feesa Sarkli" in certain circumstances, though just as there's no "Sarkli" in Feesa and Formbi's names, you don't have to have a name ending -'nuruodo to belong to House Nuruodo... in fact, given the apparent importance of the initial elements "Prard'-" and "Chaf'-", there's no reason to assume that Thrawn was a Nuruodo, as opposed to, say, a Sarkli with the more important half of his ancestry indicated by the "Mitth'-" )...

That still doesn't quite explain "Hess'irolia'nuruodo" (though I think that name can be just made to work if we assume that the "...ss'-" actually represents a "shi" sound, with the "i" eliding into the start of "Irolia", and the "-'n..." sound is likewise complex enough to get lost in the end of the Core Name) but it takes account of almost everything else...

So, for instance, in the name of "Aristocra Chaf'orm'binatrano of the Fifth Ruling House, Sarkli", "Chaf'-" and "-bintrano" define his parentage in some way, with the initial section perhaps being the more important... his Core Name is "Formbi"... and if we need to explain "Shawnkyr Nuruodo" as part of the same pattern, rather than "Shawnk'yr'nuruodo" in a different transcription system, then the correct parallel formation would be "Formbi Sarkli" (Core Name + House name)...

This is the novel based on the Outbound Flight Project itself that will be set during the Clone Wars. The relationship between the two is the OFP itself.

You really think that's the only connection?

The only contact through all of SQ that Luke and Mara have with the Empire of the Hand is the initial contact with them at Niruan, and then the 501st during the mission. Since they learnt a lot more about them during their first encounter in the HoT duology, and know little more about the Fel family, why should they be more suspicious. If anything, they'd be less.[

 

I just got my copy. Interesting illustration in the front, of the outbound flight project.

 

Thrawn McEwok, Dingo:

Thanks a lot. I guess I have to order a copy now.

 

You haven't already?

 

I barely remember Hand of Thrawn Duo; I haven't read them since the second one came out. Will it hinder my understanding/enjoyment of Survivor's Quest that I remember so little about those other two?

 

I don't know, but I think that events and locations will be talked about