Full Series Official "The Clone Wars" Series Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Didn't Anakin get his scar from Ventress in the Gendy series which both TCW and RotS incorporate into his appearance?

 

Yes, I think you're right. I'm perfectly okay with treating the Gendy series, particularly the first volume as canon. To my mind, nothing in the 2008 series contradicts the events which occur prior to Anakin's knighthood.

 

I wouldn't change much, it's interesting how SoM is not exactly the same version we would have gotten but as I've gone through my rewatch it really does feel like the show knows where it's going. The political episodes and the clone episodes are married which is something I already knew but is much more obvious. This is one of the reasons why Domino Squad is the real backbone of the clone arc. The rise and fall of the Dominos provide context for political gaming around the war.

Yeah, I'm just going to let my clone fangirl go to town and talk about the clones heavily here so buckle up...

I remember discussions about how "Pursuit of Peace" would be better if Ahsoka had been kept in the story for that part, or if one of our reoccurring clone characters namely, Rex, Fives, or Echo had been placed in the episode just to hear the one corrupt senator's comments. I don't think that's needed at all and it would make the narrative moving forward messier since the legit clone arc the Umbara Arc is already both setup by this arc and a direct follow-up. Ahsoka's own character development in the "Heroes on Both Sides" is about learning the other side has regular thinking, feeling people on it too, and seeing there are puppet strings being pulled. She is a Jedi and a soldier so banking loans and interest rates, the actual corruption in the senate are not that important to her since both she and the Clones are being setup to be the unwitting victims. Ahsoka ultimately falls Palpatines' scapegoating of the Jedi even. She didn't need to be in the second two episodes in the arc anymore than the clones.

I could get behind extending "To Catch a Jedi" or "The Jedi Who Knew too Much" into a bigger chase sequence that gives more time for character-driven dialogue that would allow a better explanation of the Jedi Councils' motives. Anakin's deeper internal struggles. And even Rex's feelings. Personally I don't think it needed all that. The only thing I'd add is Rex asking unconscious Ahsoka, or even Anakin and Plo "Why?" when riding back from capturing Ahsoka on the gunship which is ambiguous enough for viewers to draw their own conclusion, makes it clear the wheels are turning in his head and makes the helmet scene in "Old Friends" better.

I remember what if discussions about replacing Wolffe with or adding Fives to his group chasing Ahsoka to tear up the audience further in the chase. If nothing else, we'd know someone capable of outsmarting Ahsoka is chasing her. But while it's not clear cut what Fives would do. He has been shown to be the kind of guy who sticks to his own sense of duty and does exactly what he thinks if right even in the face of consequences. That simply makes Fives the wrong character for this situation because he is too well developed and frankly too intelligent to roll up on Ahsoka in front of the conveniently placed pallets of nano droids. So sticking with an underdeveloped clone like Wolffe and keeping a tight focus on just Ahsoka is better. Anakin is as smart as anyone needs to be to make the plot work. One of my biggest pet peeves that can happen in a story is when writers throttle down the intelligence of a character just to make a plot work.

Fives gets his turn very next arc and that's whole other tear-jerker. When it comes to more Fives, if there were to be more of him it might have been cool to swap the places of the Order 66 arc and Bad Batch arc. That would keep Fives alive for Bad Batch. You want the named clones dealing with Ahsoka's departure put in in the aftermath? Imagine replacing the picture scene with a scene where Rex, Cody. Fives, Jesse, and Kix talk about the commander's departure? And more interesting fun of Fives brawling with Crosshair and his reaction to mecha-Echo. Also then Fives' death happens right before SoM leaving little time for Rex to get any kind of message out for the brainchip. But... things are fine as they are. I really think Rex already had signs of PTSD after Fives' death in Bad Batch foreshadowed by his own statement, "We were bred of handle any kind of stress." ...then basically your son died in your arms.

The main thing I'd fix is the Onderon Arc. We actually had an entire thread devoted to fixing the Onderon arc. One way to do this, that is much more interesting than the weird quadrangle would be to use Rex though the entire arc. Lux's father was killed by Clone Troopers. That is ripe for conflict and to create problems for Ahsoka. At the risk of making the galaxy smaller. I'd take it a step farther and make Rex the one who killed him. As much fun as Rex and Ahsoka training the Rebels together is, though Rex smiling at Lux feels creepy. This would make the social dynamics much more interesting. Lux has to forgive the impossible and cope, Ahsoka really faces the idea the other side of the war has normal people suffering through the war the same as the republic and has to pull her friends together, Rex has to reconcile the ruthless nature of his conditioning and reevaluate his sense of honor. At the end, they could ask each other what the point of the war is. As is I fanon Lux is so lovably tense he doesn't realize what Rex is and would literally have to be told the Captain of the 501st is a clone and that's the same thing as a Clone Trooper. Oh and the really blasphemous one, I'd delete Steela from the arc and kill Lux off in her place at the end.

I do think it would be really cool to do pre clone wars origin stories from before The Clone Wars. I don't know what else to call them since obviously TPM is Anakin's origin story. But, getting prequel specials for Anakin, Ahsoka, Obi-wan, and even Rex.

 

Any news on the official chronological order of the episodes? The Ahsoka walkabout arc seems to have caused some problems for the official timeline of the series as it appeared on the official website. I've given it some thought and I was wondering if the following chronological order for the episodes could be acceptable (I don't mean perfect, I mean acceptable):

Ep. 121 = Sacrifice
Epp. 122-125 = Crystal crisis on Utapau
??? Unreleased "Cad Bane/Boba" arc
Epp. 126-127 = The enemy of my enemy + A tale of two apprentices
Epp. 128-131 = Ahsoka walkabout
Epp. 132-133 = Proxy war + Showdown on Dathomir
Epp. 134-141 = Dark disciple
Epp. 142-145 = The bad batch
Unreleased "The bad batch on Kashyyyk" arc
Epp. 146-149 = The siege of Mandalore (concurrent with ROTS)

I really don't know where to place the remaining four unreleased arcs (Rex/R2, Vong, Monsters under the Jedi Temple, Mon Cala/Padmè) but that's not important as they don't officialy exist and we don't have any animatic from them.
What are your thoughts on this matter?

 

I like that!

I'd also like if Quinlan's story could have continued in Bad Batch II, even marginally, so he could be on Kashyyyk again. And Luminara. I'd love to see her again, after hearing her handling of the Martez sisters.

Chronological order.

 

Wow... the Umbara arc is even better with Siege of Mandalore. The foreshadowing is turned up eleven in that arc. As many times as I've seen the arc I've never gotten so emotional during both Rex and Fives interchanges in "The General" and the bigger "Not just another number!" one in "Plan of Dissent". They just carry more weight than ever before. And every time Jesse is on screen I just about have to say "Dammit Jesse". In the interrogation scene in Carnage when Krell says the Republic is going to lose this war and be ripped apart from in the inside then the camera focuses on Jesse in the background looking around confused and Fives in the foreground staring Krell down with hatred, just damn...

 

Isn't it crazy that the riskiest elements of the show turned out to be some of its most successful & enduring assets that will continue to lend a serious legacy to the larger Star Wars canon?

Giving an Anakin a padawan, bringing Maul back, doing a new take on the Mandalorians... these were serious risks. And now look at how each of these elements permeate the current canon.

It's kind of sad that the show never got to pierce the mainstream the way The Mandalorian did since it was animation and thus automatically assumed to be "kiddy" content.

I was reading some old interviews of Lucas & Filoni from all the way back in 2008 and they talked about how it would be a curious journey to find the show a network because it wasn't going to be a saturday morning cartoon, but young audiences are still going to want to watch it. Lucas even likened it to the Star Wars features themselves - appealing to kids, but entertaining for the mature as well.

Now in the streaming era and Star Wars a fully operational media juggernaut with unprecedented corporate backing, it's humbling to look back at a time when it was a legit question where a Star Wars show would air and at what time.

Lucas even went on to say that the show is something of a "test run" for the canceled Underworld live-action series.

This show truly crawled so that the Star Wars content blitz we have now could run.

 

This show has provided so much material that The Mandalorian is now re-utilizing. There's Sanctuary which is very similar to Bounty Hunters (TCW Season 2) and The Prisoner is similar to Bounty (TCW Season 4). Now we just an episode with a bunch of droids wandering around a desolate wasteland searching for a Jogan fruit cake.

 

I think TCW will be key for future stories in past and future of Star Wars.

 

Agreed.

 

It's funny, TCW has rocketed in popularity but still feels underrated. Seen a few YouTubers who are suddenly making videos saying they have just gotten around to watching it, which is highly suspect. Don't lie and say you didn't have the time to watch it until TCW was the hot topic everyone was talking about. Tell the truth you didn't think it was important enough and dismissed it was just a dumb cartoon.

I experienced the same thing with the Slaves of the Republic arc where the foreshadowing is turned up to 11 and the arc is overall enhanced by SoM existing. Ahsoka's Underworld arc plugs into it as well. Speaking of droid episodes, It really feels likes once you hit "Evil Plans" going chronologically there is an overarching narrative in episodes that tightens up and everything is more connected than before. Shaak Ti saying the Jedi and Clones are one and the same, neither independent is a line that has rung through since early. Then in these episodes we get a line to the effect of "Its not slavery if it is a choice." It makes total sense why the TV shows' adaption of the Slave of the Republic sits where it does after the Umbara arc which deals with the Clones' side of it. Rex just about repeats Shaak Ti's line verbatim.

Now we deal with the Jedi's side of it and as often happens that is done through the distorted lens of public opinion. Albeit this time it's through the tinted glasses of a villainess who is difficult to sympathize with. Great stuff. My favorite moment the entire arc is still when both Obi-wan and Rex have been shocked to the ground by the Slavers and Roshti says the Jedi make everything worse. Now on the same level as Rex, Obi-wan looks at him like "What am I supposed to do now?" and only gets a sympathetic look in return. Interesting foreshadowing with the "I'm no Jedi" line too. Agruss and the slavers focus entirely on Obi-wan, the Jedi. He ignores the Clone for the entire episode even as he kicks ass to the clones' theme motif. It's the army of Badass Normals you've got to watch out for which ends up being true for the galaxy at large. I can't wait to start the Deception/ Rako Hardeen Arc in just a few. Cad Bane is another fine example of a Badass Normal you have to watch out for. Its another arc I love that I think is going to be better than ever.

It's not perfect. "A Friend in Need" is undeniably a little jarring but the show has mentioned and even shown a few times that villages and innocent people have often burned caught between the GAR and the Droid Army. So maybe Ahsoka has come to own that guilt and doesn't feel she has any moral high ground to confront Bo-Katan/ Deathwatch about killing and burning innocent people. The Jedi do arguably arm terrorists later its just that arc is watered down from doing anything complex. After all Ahsoka didn't even do anything to try to stop it and just prioritized protecting Lux. Bo-Katan never takes off her helmet and barely interacts with Ahsoka in this episode who deals almost entirely with Vizsla and interchangeable grunts so maybe she doesn't even realize Bo-Katan is the same person. I don't feel like SoM really shows Bo-Katan is that reformed besides regretting choices that lost Mandalore its freedom. She's still all about her self-serving agenda.

 

Apparently, the reason why we didn’t get Son of Dathomir and Dark Disciple adapted into the final season of The Clone Wars as fully animated arcs had to possibly do with licensing agreements with Dark Horse Comics and Lucas Books (18:45-19:06).

 

I bet there's more to it as well. how mutch of wuold be changed from the comic and the book. Also i bet it was money oh mutch bigger the budget this season would get, still dissapointed we didn't get ctrystal crisis that seemed easy to get in.

 

I'll just keep going with this. Okay so the Deception Arc has not changed much from its old context which is fine. It foreshadows the other half of TCW's finale, Revenge of the Sith itself. Still a fantastic and highly underrated arc. It's one of the few where Palpatine takes an active role and we see his manipulations. From the fact the red Shock Troopers really take orders directly from him to the fact the whole arc is a big Xanatos gambit to get a front-row seat to see Anakin duel Dooku up close. The season 4 finale does have more of a sense of "The beginning if the end" by putting Ventress on her path to helping Ahsoka and by introducing Maul, the wild card, and an essential part driving the final storyline in TCW. Maul really does just become part of the plan again.

I find myself in a debate with season 5, which already isn't my favorite. Yeah I'm one of those people who kind of likes parts of the D-Squad arc. Sure once I get to the Maul/Mandalorian arc it's great but it takes a lot to get there. I find myself wondering if I should move the Clovis arc to season 5 where it was supposed to go or leave it in season 6 where the official chronological order puts it. Anyone have thoughts on that?

 

I'd highly recommend sticking the Clovis arc after Onderon. Ian Abercrombie was still voicing Palps and his/Yoda's looks match their S4 appearances. Also, Obi-Wan casually name-drops Satine like there isn't a fresh wound there.

On a separate note, I'm very much in the pro-Gathering Arc camp. It sounds like you're mainly looking for lore connections on this rewatch (and that arc has very few) but aside from bits of Petro/Ganodi dialogue, I find the story remarkably well-told and engaging.

 

Idk why she wasn't given a spotlight. She could be the main character in a really good Star Wars story. Just me?

 

I was watching Anakin vs Cin Drallig from Revenge of the Sith the video game and just noticed that at 20:35 Cin does the exact same attack against Anakin that Ahsoka to Maul to throw him through the window. Probably wasn't intentional but I thought it was interesting since the Anakin vs Cin duel happens almost immediately after AHsoka vs Maul

 

I don't hate the Younglings Arc at all. Hondo's "I'm flying" is probably the funniest in the entire show. I like the world building aspect of the arc with the Younglings finding the crystals to build their first lightsabers. The Space battle with Grievous decimating Obi-wan's fleet and Grievous vs Pirates. It's a big stepping stone for Ahsoka who is put in a leadership position that makes it feel like she is close to being knighted and isn't just daycare. On the other hand Petro is one of the most annoying characters in the show if not the entire franchise. It's just a boring arc to me in stretches and it's hard to put any investment into the kids who all seem doomed by canon. That shot at the end where the kids, Ahsoka, and Obi-wan forming the Republic's emblem with their sabers and Cody standing watch over them like death is a hell of a shot.

I just watched in the official chronological order to keep moving. I don't think it matters that much to put the Clovis arc behind Satine's death. I have often head canoned still dealing with Satine's death as being the reason Obi-wan sits the fence in Ahsoka's season 5 arc. That after "Lawless" Obi-wan was intending to go back to Coruscant get Anakin and pick up the 212th maybe even Ahsoka and the 501st and go right back to Mandalore to lay Siege and capture Maul but the temple bombing and Ahsoka's drama happened back to back causing Obi-wan resentment and avoidance. By the time it's over Obi-wan had come out of his BSOD and had to just go on fighting the war. It still hurts but he can talk about it too try and relate to Anakin. Obi-wan handles that entire conversation in the Clovis arc wrong.

It would be interesting to see how Bo lost the darksaber. Hopefully The Mandalorian will fill in that blank.

 

It would be an opportunity missed, if they did not. I don’t see that occurring with who is overseeing the project.

 

Too bad its no longer canon, as we know Jocasta survived the Purge and wasn't killed by Vader during Order 66.

 

I only agree since I really think the only major carry over will be Ahsoka as Rex is to old by this point to really matter

 

Rex will always matter.
Gotta get Boba and Rex together. Family reunion!

 

In before JKF goes a little too far -TtJ

 

Ever get that awkward feeling where you wonder what you just walked into?

Made it to the season 5 finale and yeah its another key arc made even better by SoM, at least the first two parts are because that's where I'll have to stop for now. First "Sometimes even the smallest doubt can shake the greatest belief." is now one of my favorite fortune cookies ever. And its really cool that the next arc, the Order 66 arc's first fortune cookie is right behind it "The truth about yourself is always the hardest to accept.". Stack these two together and it's poetic. Second Anakin's statement to Ashoka that some Jedi are going to disappoint her but the ones that do it right make it worth it. That goes farther than the end of the arc.

And my boy Rex's infamous line "Commander Tano would never do this." and then repeating Anakin's bulletin adding she is armed and dangerous now seems much clearer with the parallels to what happens in "Shattered" and "Victory and Death". Plus telling Ezra to take his blaster out of stun in Rebels. The number of clones killed is even the same. Barriss tallied four to frame Ahsoka. In "Shattered", Rex shot four of his brothers to save Ahsoka. Rex believed that she would never just kill a clone. But logically, a soldier would think lethal force which he was preparing to use on his fellow clones in "Victory and Death" is to be met with the same force so she is armed and dangerous. Ahsoka takes the third option. Cool stuff.