Full Series Official "The Clone Wars" Series Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Well, the "May the 4th be with you" TCW marathon was going well at first...

But now the ***clowns at Cartoon Network have just shown the first portion of Altar of Mortis, the part before the first commercial break, three times in a row, complete with opening fanfare and everything. This could go on all day...

EDIT: Well, now it's on to Ghosts of Mortis... so much for 2/3 of the previous episode.

 

That botched broadcast of Altar of Mortis just gave me an aneurysm

 

AHAHAHA they clearly didn't think it worthy to be broadcast in full ever again on their channel.

 

Thats to funny, that botch is right up there with back in the day when CN ran the same episode of Sailor Moon twice in a row during the Lunar Eclipse marathon.

 

About Counter Attack, which they're showing now:

It seems clearly established in ROTJ ( and ROTS ) that Jedi can use Force TK just fine while their hands are bound, so why didn't Kenobi and Piell use the Force to stop Sobeck from killing the clone?

 

Plot convenience. They needed to show that Osi Sobeck was one of those 'ruthless' villains that has no mercy and has no objection to killing people to get what he wants.

 

I don't remember exactly how many droids were in that scene, but it's possible they didn't want to do anything to put the droids in kill mode and get shot down in a hail of blaster bolts.

 

I actually think Season 3 is better than 1, and almost as good as 2.

 

They've all been so different, I'm pleased with what we have. Season Three feels like Season 3.0 and Season 3.5 though. It was weird to watch but on Blu-ray, in the long run, it is totally fine and diverse.

 

Maybe it has symbolical meaning

Obi-Wan's 'force pool' was used to conjuring a lightsaber and Even just is little slow.... as we see when he climbs down the wall

but honestly jedi powers are something that doesn't exists and they would ruin the story if they would use force all the time- they would be Gary Stus and Mary Sues and story would be bit boring- IU-reason may not exists though- besides if they would've tried anything- droids could've shot them (even though number of guard droids there was extremely low so i guess that is enough IU-reason- it's not like non-jedi prisoner couldn't also try tricks with hands bound but it would be stupid try...

 

Well that's lame.

 

That thing that suspended Obi-Wan in episode 2 prevented him from using force power by means of small but constant electrical shocks (disrupting his concentration so he couldn't call on the force.)

And if it were me, I would have the droids programed to shoot them the instant they did something that suggested they were going to use force powers (like closing their eyes...they always seem to do that.)

 

I've noticed that all Jedi who are about to do some telekinesis look smug or satisfied.

Though in this instance, Sobeck wants Piell alive for the Nexus Route coordinates.

 

Eh, maybe the trooper was badmouthing the Jedi behind their backs.

 

Obi-Wan owed him money.

 

Said clone was the one discovered to be rigging the vending machines to steal their change.

No, in all seriousness, Even said himself they were all prepared to die for the intelligence and that's just the way Jedi are. If a few have to die for the good of the republic then oh well. Probably won't have changed anything if the blaster was pointing between Cody or even Kenobi's eyes.

 

But was the clone prepared to die? Leaders can say all they want about how their legions will follow them to hell and back, but in reality are they actually that loyal? Even might have just been saying that to spit in Sobeck's face, knowing full well that his life was safe until he cracked.

 

^as clone i think that's rather clear- even if he wouldn't have been changed to be more docile he is at least well brainwashed to die for the republic and on very dangerous mission, so we can really think he was prepared to die... maybe he was not...... maybe he was thinking "I'm too young to die- nooooo don't kill me!" but since he kept his mouth shut we can never know

 

He was agreeing with Even up until the point the blaster was put in HIS face.

"Oh KRIFF no! Screw dying for the Republic! Jedi force thing go! Um... Generals?!" *BLAM!*

 

So, I'm slowly working my way through the Season 2 DVD set and I just watched the "Making Mandalore" special feature on Disc 3. I am also in the process of reading Karen Traviss' RC/IC novels.

I have been... disappointed... with the portrayal of Mandalore and Mandalorians in the RC/IC novels. I think Traviss went to an ugly extreme. Now, track over to TCW Season 2 and the Mandalorian arc. The concept of a staunchly pacifist Mandalore also seemed kinda strange.

Watching the special feature, I am somewhat confused. Dave Filoni explains how Mandalore and Mandalorians have become a huge sub-culture within Star Wars fandom based on a plethora of EU sources. However, George and Dave felt that the EU sources kinda ruined Boba Fett in a way. Filoni said that the idea with TCW was to retcon Mandalore and the Mandalorian people to the old-school, bring-back-the-army-of-darkness Death Watch Mandos (led by Pre Viszla). Somehow, I don't think they quite accomplished that goal, but I was quite satisfied with the explanation Filoni gave. He had the right idea, but the execution may not have been that great. The focus of the arc, to me, was much more on Satine than the Death Watch. I do buy Filoni's explanation that Boba Fett was really an outlier amongst Mandalorians based on his armor. He cobbled it together from defeating opponents and probably had many possible combinations stored on Slave I. The Death Watch wanted to bring back an organized, army-like Mandalorian society rather than present a face of savage bounty hunters. Like I said; good idea, in my opinion, but poor execution by the TCW team.

I'm sure that since these episodes appeared so long ago that this topic has been debated to death, but I just wanted to throw my thoughts out there since I am only seeing this stuff now.

 

I heard somewhere that pacifist Mandalorians were in the EU prior to the Mandalorian trilogy, but I understand that for people who like the Mandalorians, it's a bit...alien, to say the least. As for the actual retcon, I endorse it. The movie-era Mandalorian EU was pretty messy, but I think people would rather have the Mandalorians you know from the Mandalorian Wars. People don't often think of the Mandalorians post-ROTJ era. They're nothing more than mercenaries. If the Death Watch get their way, I think people would be more content, especially the Mandalorian fans.

Also, I like the Dave's view on Boba Fett. I like how the armor was won, not inherited. Makes him more of a badass.

 

I did not know about the other EU pacifist Mandalorians, actually. Where in the EU do they appear, do you know?

I agree with you in re Boba's armor, too. It does make him a more unique, badass character.

Someone recommended the Bounty Hunter Wars trilogy to me to read if I was unsatisfied (to say the least) with Traviss' view of the Mandalorians. I'm seriously thinking about getting it, despite the fact that I have never been a big fan of the bounty hunter characters (though, I do think that Boba Fett is an interesting character, and agree with Lucas' and Filoni's views, as posited in the DVD special feature I mentioned above).

 

@ Riven_JTAC

It has been debated to death and back again, but I give you props for typing down one of the most concise Mandalorian analyses I've seen.

I too read Traviss' portrayal of the Mandalorians and was sorely disappointed. The RC series only really fell apart for me with True Colours, incidentally the first book in the series to actually go to Mandalore and meet the bona fide Mandalorians. Order 66 was so offensively awful that I didn't bother to read Imperial Commando: 501st. It's a shame, since I was a fan of the original game and even the first RC novel. Yet another squandered opportunity.

However, I have a more optimistic view of the Mandalorians and Boba Fett in TCW.

Lethal Trackdown was a disappointment to me only because it ended with Boba remaining the petulant Jedi-hating child he has been in the EU since 2002, straight into the post-ROTJ era (I've heard enough about those books to not touch them with a 10 foot pole). The amoral-yet-honourable professional with no sentimental ties, no reactionary "warrior culture" guiding him and no emotional hangups is the character I want to see Boba Fett mature into. There's still time. It's statements like Filoni's about the Traviss-Mandos devaluing Fett's uniqueness that give me hope, telling me that TPTB have a clear, mature understanding of Fett's appeal.

I think the S2 Mandalore episodes were good character pieces for Obi-Wan and Satine, but not so much for the Mandalorians as a whole. They did lay the foundation for future episodes, delving more deeply into Mandalorian culture and history. However, the S3 Mandalore episodes were a gross squandering of this potential and an abuse of Satine's character. They really were quite pathetic, IMO.

 

We're basically the same on several viewpoints. I agree that the RC game was great and I loved the first RC novel. The second RC novel was kinda... meh. The third and fourth? YUCK. I'm steeling myself to read Imperial Commando: 501st right now, and I have to say... I am cautiously optimistic. In the first 40 or so pages, I've seen a glimmer of hope that the story arc will recover... to some degree. The damage is already done, in the sense that there's no way that I can be placated fully. But maybe things have changed.

I also agree about the post-ROTC era, to an extent. I haven't read anything taking place post-14 ABY. I've heard that once you get past there, things start to get crazy and there's a flavor-of-the-month style of galactic cataclysm every so often.

I have not yet seen any part of Season 3 since I don't watch serialized TV pretty much ever. I am 3/4 through the Season 2 DVDs right now. It's unfortunate to hear that the S3 Mandalorian episodes were a letdown for you. It'll be some time before I see those (when do they come out on DVD, October again?).

Hopefully we'll see some EU sources reverse the trend that Filoni discussed and get back to the feeling many of us had seeing Boba Fett in the movies for the first time and the image many of us had of the Mandalorians around that time.

 

The idea is not fully executed yet. The pacifism is a sub-plot in the Mandalorian story arc (which is not over). It is explained that this pacifism move is very recent, and only supported due to the near erradication of the Mandalorians thanks to the various wars between clans and Jedi. It's a very understandable move, in my opinion. However, this doesn't remove the Mandalorians from their warrior culture, as it is made clear on the episodes tha they have it.

And pretty much agree with Dave's position. The way mandalorians have been portrayed in recent years have made them nothing more than a bunch of Boba Fetts, thus making him less unique. I'm glad they brought back the original idea for them.