*OFFICIAL THREAD* Sifo-Dyas Discussion

You're absolutely right D.S. so I guess there's no way in hell Palpatine can be Sidious. Oh, right, unless He's not Sifo Dyas!...there goes that theory.

 

I'm new here so I'll post my opinion on the subject.... Maybe Sifo-Dyas was an apprentice Sith before Darth Maul? and since Maul had such a hatred for the Jedi already he killed Sifo to become the new apprentice?

Or maybe another thought that I saw that was a good one, maybe Sifo died at the hands of Jango so the Kamino (spelled wrong) would clone Jango instead of Sifo?

I dunno just throwing stuff out there..

 

I've read the first half of the pages now, and wanted to chip in my own ideas...

First of all, the Darth Maul theory is probably my favorite. It would provide back story for Maul, show that Palpatine was planning the clones even before the failure of the droids, and the facial tattoos would play into it nicely (plus they make a point of leaving Sifo-Dyas' death ambiguous). Unfortunately, however, I don't believe this theory is correct. Mainly because Lucas allowed his backstory to become property of the EU. When there is a character/planet/battle/ship that he wants to explain later, he forbids these topics from being discussed in the EU.

My next favorite theory is Qui-Gon - it would be a good shock, but once again I don't believe it will pan out. For one, I don't think Qui-Gon was evil, just possibly misled, and I think the fact that Tyrannus hired Jango makes it clear that Sidious was behind the whole thing. (As a side note, I think that Qui-Gon will be the first Jedi-ghost, thus validating the large role he was given in TPM and the references in AOTC).

I have come to accept what was once my least favorite S-D theory as the most likely... S-D was a Jedi who was killed, and Tyrannus impersonated him to order the army. At first I rejected this, because it is clear that GL is creating a mystery here... this is why we're not told for sure about S-D's fate, and it is also why the various comments "almost ten years ago", "over ten years ago", "about ten years ago", etc... are all vague, and refer to somewhere around the same time frame. (This way it can at least be argued whether Qui-Gon/Darth Maul had a role... although it seems that they were probably already dead.) I thought that S-D = Tyrannus was too obvious, but I now realize that although it is obvious to the audience, it would be a huge surprise to the Jedi. They think Dooku is against the republic. If they find out that he ordered the clones, they'll see that the whole war was orchestrated, and this could point them towards Palpatine.

I think further support for this is that "Sifo-Dyas" was originally planned to be "Sido-Dyas", being a mispronunciation of Sidious (so in the original plan, it was simply Sidious who ordered the clones). I think GL decided to take it one step further, and have the name of a real Jedi used so that a) it would be confusing, and b) it would confuse/implicate the Jedi.


Finally, I don't think a new major character will be introduced, so that pretty much leaves that either S-D is someone we already know (Maul?) or S-D was simply impersonated (Dooku). As I said, I think the latter will be the biggest surprise for the Jedi - the war is a fraud.


I'm not sure that I added too much new here, but I hope at least it's a new perspective.

 

The more I read the more I'm convinced that S-D = Dooku... I'd like it to be a bigger revalation, but the Maul/Qui-Gon theories (although fun), wouldn't be monumental to the characters... just the audience. The Dooku revalation (though obvious) could make the jedi realize that the Sith want the Republic to have a great army, eventually pointing them to Sidious. This would further the plot, rather than detract from the whole fall of the jedi (& Anakin), rise of the Empire theme, as I feel most of the more interesting theories would.


...But then again maybe GL has a trick up his sleeve that none of us see coming (that would be nice).

 

Is it possible that Sifo-Dyas is an anagram?

Someone, somewhere, has to have done this already I'm certain. I just don't know about any.

Is it an anagram? Has anyone tried it?

 

Now, I know this sounds crazy, but hear me out. There is more to Sypho-Dyas than many think. First of all Sypho is the birth name or non-jedi name of Qui-Gon-Jinn. It all adds up if you think about it. Taun We said, 'Your master, sypho dyas..' and Obi-Wan agres saying, 'My master, sypho dyas..'. Dooku trained Qui-Gon correct? And all of the council knows about dookus resignation from the council (when exactly is unsure, but belived to be the same time qui-gon died). After Darth Maul and Qui-Gon died, it was perfect for Sideous and Dooku, because they had no need for any of them anymore. Dooku, during the time was master of Qui-Gon, sent Qui-Gon to Kamino to order the creation of a clone army, orders from Palpatine/Sideous. At that same time Dooku, who was still a member of the jedi council, removed the planed Kamino from the archives, orders from Palpatine/Sideous again. This explains why Jango-Fett didnt know who Sypho was, Dooku/Tyrannus hired Jango to be a host of the clones 10 years before (after qui-gon was sent to order the clones) . So basically Qui-Gon was the pawn of it all.

 

They say the Jedi Syfo-Dyas was killed 10 years before AOTC, which is when TPM takes place.

What if Yoda and Mace knew he had turned to the Darkside, and told the other jedi, that he had died.

What do people think of this idea, i've only become a Star Wars fan since the Special Editions, so dont flame me if the idea is stupid!

 

1) The Kaminoans had dealings with someone calling themself Sifo-Dyas.

2) This person set-up the Clone Army for the Republic.

3) Mace & Yoda have no recollection of this being approved.

4) Obi-Wan is under the belief a "Sifo-Dyas" was killed more than 10 years ago.

5) Sifo-Dyas (or whoever was pretending to be SD) told the Kaminoans to expect a visit from Obi-Wan Kenobi at some time. Obi-Wan is not aware of this before his meeting with Taun We/Lama Su. We presume Sifo-Dyas was never Obi-Wan's master, although he plays along with this notion while talking to the Kaminoans.

6) The Jedi Council have not been able to sense these events. They feel their ability to use this aspect of the force is diminishing as a result of the influence of "the Dark Lord Of The Sith" (Yoda).

7) Jango Fett is the bounty hunter who is the clone 'template'. He claims no knowledge of SD but refers instead to Darth Tyrannus (aka Count Dooku to us, the audience).

8) Jango Fett is involed in the Dooku-led Seperatist's plot to assassinate Padme.

9) The Clone Wars involve the Seperatist's droid army vs. the Republic's mystery Clone Army.


In short - Sifo-Dyas, or somebody using the name Sifo-Dyas, secretly ordered a Clone Army from the Kaminoans approx. 10 years ago and told the Kaminoans to expect to deal with an apprentice of his called Obi-Wan Kenobi.

Dooku/Tyrannus hired Jango as the template (obviously Jango was referring to being hired for this purpose as opposed to assassination when talking to Kenobi).

Dooku set up the Clone Army under Sidious' influence using the name of a deceased Jedi as cover (how were the Kaminoans to know Dyas was dead or who he was ?).

I doubt we'll hear much more than this about Dyas in EP3.

Why/How did Dooku predict Kenobi would visit Kamino at some point (the K's have been waiting some time) ?

Did Dooku/Sidious foresee Qui-Gon's death and expect Kenobi to "follow a trail" ?

Why tell the Kaminoans to expect Kenobi ? The Kaminoans may suspect something is wrong if Kenobi turns up unexpectedly. Would this make a difference ?

 

After watching AOTC again, I think that the Kominoans expected someone to show up to inspect the clone army (Taun tells Obi Wan "we've been expecting you"), but i dont think they expected Obi-Wan in particular. When Taun introduced him to the Prime Minister, she pauses to allow Obi-Wan to introduce himself by name.

Personally, I like the theory that Sidious and S-D are the same person. The names themselves are similar, and perhaps GL is using a play-on-words. Since S-D is referred to as a jedi master, it would make sense that he is indeed the "traitor". As a jedi master, S-D would have full access to all areas of the Jedi Temple and the Jedi Council. S-D could have been the one that erased the planet Kamino from the Jedi Hall of Records, thus covering his plan to order the creation of a clone army. Just a thought.....

 

Frankly, I think the Sifo-Dyas "mystery" is overly contrived. The riddle, however, doesn't seem very complex:
A Jedi Master Syfo-Dyas placed an order for the Clone Army at the request of the Senate almost 10 years ago, except that he wasn't acting on behalf of the Jedi Council. Last, and not least, some Jedi erased information from the databank.

Sidious and Dooku ordered the Clone Army in order to discredit the Jedi (and to eventually police the Empire they were planning to create).

Jedi Master Dooku had access to the Jedi library and probably erased Kamino from the databank. Any other Jedi, Anakin for example, would have to have been decieved in order to erase the files while Dooku would do it willfully.

Here is the only really confusing part. Lucas gave the Sith Master and a Jedi Master nearly identical names. He may have done this because Syfo-Dyas and Sidious are the same person. The Jedi are confident that whoever placed the order on Kamino could not have been the real Syfo-Dyas, but it is remotely possible that they are mistaken. Maybe Jedi Master Syfo-Dyas appeared to be killed at some point before TPM, but actually lived on to be a Sith Master.
This scenario really screws the pooch, but it can't be ruled out entirely.

 

SIFO DYAS - O DYA , O DYA = YODA

SIF- ---S - F, F = FEMALE

SI-- ---S - SIS, SIS = SISTER


Sifo-Dyas is yoda's sister

 

Yoda's sis?

OMG!

Syfo=Yaddle!!!!

[image=http://users3.ev1.net/~rfet/swchpics/yaddle.jpg]

 

I think Syfo could be more along the lines of Qui-Gon. People say it was Dooku, but I think that is just plain stupid. Think about it, Dooku is fighting the clones, why would he create any army for the Republic if he would later oppose the Republic and start a separatist movement. It makes no sense. I think it was Qui-Gon.

 

I apologize from the start if this sounds very ridiculous or if there is already a thread about this.. However, this is a little theory I thought of (while smoking.. hehehe..) so it might be a bit flawed...Or maybe mentioned before i'm sure.. and you tell me what you think..

Now remember that at times, Palp can foresee the future, right? How about this as a master plan.. Is it possible that Palp asked Sifo-Dyas to order those clones let's say like 10 years ago as the movie states knowing that when the time comes, all of this would happen and Sifo-Dyas would be the one blamed for ordering the clones (Stormtroopers) who then become servants of course to Palp/Sidious. I believe Palp might have been the one to kill Sifo-Dyas.. Now, if indeed Sifo-Dyas IS dead, nobody could know that Palp asked Sifo-Dyas to order these clones, or killed Sifo-Dyas leaving Sifo-Dyas to blame and framed. All along, Palp's plan was to make these clones his once the whole dark side/sith/death star/darth vader comes to order.

Crazy huh? I know. Scorch away, and enjoy

-- Force

 

**grins** Here's an off the wall theory for you! The Jedi council fortold that they would need an army, so they sent Sifo-Dyas to go order it for them. In order to keep things under wraps, they had Sifo-Dyas killed and erased the planet from the archives until such time that they needed Obi-Wan to find it!

 

There is no way the Jedi would kill one of their own.

 

But Sapient, would the Jedi try to stop someone who has turned?

Just like Kenobi tries to stop Skywalker.

All the theories are great and I have a few favorites. But, I think Lucas will follow the same formula he's adopted for the PT: we, the audience, are kept at arms length to be the "observers" of this tragedy. We're not necessarily into the heroes side of things, rather we're trying to see how it all happened.

This is why I think Lucas will reveal that Sifo-Dyas was an actual Jedi who was killed, and then Dooku impersonated him to order the clones.

Someone above pointed out that would help reveal Sidious to the Jedi. I hadn't thought of that but it's true.

 

I think Syfo Dyas will be Mace windu

DYAS means duality (comes from latin word),so his character has to have a good side and a bad side

I think mace had become arrogant taking matters into own hands.Because of the posed thread after centuries of peace and the arrival of the chosen one he felt there had to be something done to protect the republic and the jedi order,after all like he knew the jedi were not warriors and a war could have devestating consequences for them.Knowing the jedi council would never allow to create a clone army he goes to kamino and using the name of syfo dyas he orders the clone army for the republic.After that he erases the files from the archives.And now he has to wait untill somebody can pick up the clones without him being suspected.I am not sure wetter palpy in secret advised him to do so ,thus misleading mace about his intentions.I hope so ,this would make palpy look even more like Iago fooling another one of his pawns like in a game of chess.In episode 3 he will realise his mistake and he will fight heroicly protecting padme,...and the rest against anakin...

THis would explain the trailer
Mace windu: when will you know when you have gone to far (taking matters into own hands...)The purple saber nicely symbolises the fact that he is indeed a good character ,but he has done a stupid thing and he will feel obliged to make up for his mistake doing some heroic stuff in episode 3.


Syo in japanese
Before the twelfth century little is known of the primitive community in Okinawa. But in 1314 there is evidence that three powerful warlords were in conflict. By 1429 -- more than a century later -- the Lord of Nakayama Castle, Syo Hasshi, had united all the main islands by the sword. This period corresponds to the Ming dynasty in China and the Muromachi period in Japan. Throughout the course of this period there was extensive trade with China, and in 1392 Chinese immigrants were permitted to settle. Relations with Japan were also active. It was during this period that the Japanese pirate Wako infested the seas around Okinawa.

Although the martial arts of Japan and China influenced those of Okinawa, they were not very popular, as their had been peace under the thriving Buddhist culture since the political union of the islands by Syo Hasshi. In 1609, the islands of Ryukyu were easily conquered by troops dispatched by the Satsuma(sidious) clan in Japan. Ryukyu had become a pawn in the political power games of the emerging shogunate and the rebelliously independent and aggressive Satsuma. The Shogun decided to send them to Ryukyu to vent their aggression away from the fledgling shogunate he was establishing to rule Japan for the next two and a half centuries. Japan had just emerged out of its "Age of War" and it didn't want to return into it due to the rash aggression of a few wayward clans. The Satsuma samurai encountered little direct opposition to their invasion. The prince of Okinawa was taken as a hostage and a police force was established at Naha (the capital of Okinawa) to superintend internal affairs. The military class was banned and all arms were confiscated. For this reason the combative techniques of Okinawa, which have been handed down to the present day, the

And i dont think it will be dooku posing as dyas.Dooku hired jango as a bounty hunter to kill padme for the nemoideans.Sidious alpy knew this and prob advised mace windu to hire jango as a template for the clone army.

Plus syo romanized is SHO
The urban dictionary definition of FO SHO is
-a common word used by ANGRY BLACK MEN or
-black for damn straight or ill rip off your sack and staple it to my wall you honkey son of a bitch

It has to be Mace,Fo Sho

 

If the Council knew about the clone army and Kamino, why did Yoda help Obi Wan find it? wasn't he trying to keep it a secret?

 

Read the post,Only mace and palpy know,all the rest doesn't know...But difference is ,palpy's intentions are bad,mace intentions are good...but consequences bad

 

It can't be Mace. I *do* think he and Yoda know something, but not any secret ordering.

 

Ok, here is my new and improved "who in the hell is Syfo Dyas theory." My answer, who cares? The more important question is who ordered the clone army. IMO, Drum roll please.... It is none other than Governor Tarkin! Yes, yes, yes. Here's my theory why.
1.) The Republic has stood for over a thousand years without the need of a military.
2.) As such, knowlege of military training would almost be nonexistant at the time of the PT.
3.) There is only approx 20 years between Ep. III and IV.
4.) Somehow, Tarkin is a badass military commander that destroys planets without mercy, and garners respect from even Vader.
5.) This leads me to believe that Tarkin has an inate ability as a military leader, a natural.
6.) Who better than he to order the clones? He knows what is necessary in a fighting man. He would be instrumental in developing the Kaminoans military training programs. Also, and with the right assurances by Palpatine, he would know that he would be commanding the troops eventually. What makes more sense than to have the army's future leader be intimately involved in their creation?

Here's my take. There was some meeting between Tarkin, Palpatine, and Dooku (Tyranus). Tarkin and Palpatine, familiar with what's going on in the power circles learn of the death of Syfo Dyas. Since Kamino is in the outer rim, they've probably never heard of this one Jedi (Heck, it didn't seem like Obi-Wan knew him either). The Kaminoans had probably heard of Palpatine, since he just recently became the Supreme Chancellor. Palpatine tells Tarkin to go to Kamino and order the clone army and use the name Syfo Dyas. That way, there would be no suspicion in the minds of the Kaminoans that there was something up. In other words, hey if the Jedi council has agreed to this it must be okay. Palpatine probably also had Tarkin drop his name too, that way it looked as if the Jedi and Palpatine were working together on this one. Tarkin could probably pull this off. The Kaminoans would not be inclined to make him prove that he were a Jedi. Merely dressing like one would be okay. Not to mention, the Kaminoans are friendly depending on your manners and how big your pocketbook is, anyway. At the same time, since Tarkin is a military guy, he would also be involved in the Clones training, etc. Meanwhile, Palpatine dispatches Dooku to look for a suitable DNA donor to create the clones. He meets up with Jango. It would not be necessary for Jango to ever meet Tarkin, because Tarkin would be training the clones, not the donor.
Hope everyone enjoys reading my theory as much as I enjoyed writing it.

 

I just think that Sifo-Dyas was Dooku's former Jedi name before adopting the civilian name of Count Dooku.

 

DS, I respectfully disagree. Obi Wan seemed taken aback by the name Syfo Dyas when the Kaminoans mentioned it. However, he seemed keenly aware of who Dooku was. Also, the connection between QGJ CD and Ob1 is close enough that there would be no reason for Ob1 to be kinda, sort of, unsure about when Syfo Dyas (if he were indeed Count Dooku) had died.

 

If he's always known Dooku by that name, then sure. But what if 10 years ago Dooku asked that he no longer be addressed as Sifo-Dyas, as he wanted all reminders of his life as a Jedi to be gone from his life? As such, Qui-Gon told Obi-Wan that Sifo-Dyas (aka Dooku the former Jedi) was dead from a certain point of view. In fact, what really happened was that portion of Dooku's life was dead.