**OFFICIAL THREAD** Yoda vs. Darth Sidious v3.0

I still go with how it is described in the novelization.
Yoda had "lost" - the Jedi had "lost" - long before he even set foot in that Senate Holding Office.
That is why Yoda didn't make the effort to jump back up and do it all over again - he realised had lost, and that the real battle for the hearts and minds of the Republic ended long ago.

Not because he had no saber.
Not because he was injured.
Not because Palpatine was owning him.
But because Yoda had nothing to fight for anymore.

The Republic was gone, and in it's place was an Empire.
On Geonosis the Jedi were faced with an ultimatum - be decimated by the CIS and their droid armies, or adopt the conveniently created clone army and retaliate.
Oh, and the clone army will eventually turn on its Jedi Masters and destroy them, although the Jedi didn't find this out until - well - until they were staring down the barrel of that particualr gun, as it happens.
Either way - they lost, and Palpatine won.

 

Here I couldn't agree more. Yoda couldn't keep up the fight - what was he fighting for really? And besides, it did seem that he only had a certain amount of time to finish Sideous off... He was out of time!! Out of time to save the republic, and out of time to kill Sideous.

In the question of who is more powerful, they seem very equal. However, I think that Yoda displayed greater control when he was able to control the turrent of lightning and push it back. It must take greater effort really.
Also, the pods: imagine lifting a 50kg rock, heavy enough. Imagine taking the same rock and catching it falling - that is quite impressive.

 

If Sidious isn't as powerful as Yoda how come his own lightning being deflected back at him by both Mace Windu and Yoda fails to destroy him?
And keep in mind in both incidents Sidious had no protection from the lightning. It actually touched him and exploded in his face point blank range. Windu had to protect himself with his saber and Yoda had to protect himself with his forceshield from Sidious' lightning.Sidious had no protection. Yet he survived. Why is that?

If Yoda owns Sidious in their lightsaber duel as other posters say, why is it if you study the fight more closely [with the zoom closeup on the dvd remote control] you see Sidious catch Yoda at every single turn no matter how fast Yoda spins and leaps around?

 

I'm not saying Yoda owned Sideous. I hardly think anyone would argue that. I'm merely arguing that Yoda gained the upper hand in their force duel/duels. He showed he was AT LEAST as powerful as Sideous... not much seperated them though - I think Yoda's control and experience gained him a slight edge in the lightning duel...

 

"I'm not saying Yoda owned Sideous. I hardly think anyone would argue that. I'm merely arguing that Yoda gained the upper hand in their force duel/duels. He showed he was AT LEAST as powerful as Sideous... not much seperated them though - I think Yoda's control and experience gained him a slight edge in the lightning duel..."



Well said cousinbasil!

 

I said that, not cousinbasil

 

My apologies Rossa83. I made that post while I was still half asleep!

 

Since you agreed with me (and I'm half asleep myself) you are quite forgiven

 

Wow, reading that I just thought of a chain of events that would justify the argument that Yoda won of the fight, by virtue of not dieing, and being able to judge Sidious' skill and intent. (I apologize if this thought has already been discussed)

By Yoda surviving he was able to train Luke, so that Luke was able to be in a position to bring Vader back to the light so that the Emperor would be taken down. Maybe that's not Yoda's plan, however if Yoda didn't train Luke, Episode VI would have been called, "The Empire Strikes Back Again"...and again...and again.

-- by the way, I'm not personally justifying it as a Yoda win, I stand by my original statement that neither side won, just thought it was interesting.

 

Yea Yoda's what almost 900 years old and sids is what 60 maybe 70

 

I agree with you completely, it was a draw. Short term you could even argue that Sideous won. In the end, Yoda won. I always felt Yoda to be the essence of light and Palpatine the essence of darkness. The darkness was victorious after the duel of Sideous and Yoda, but in the end the light won over the darkness. perhaps I wasn't way out there anyhow. But the duel itself - I think it was a draw. But, I still feel that Yoda, in the end, gained the upper hand - but it didn't do him much good.

 

i would like to see this whole battle. we don't see Yoda disarming Sidious, but it happend. i'm not sure what else is left out. maybe the novel tells more. i haven't read it. but just watching the dule one could say that Sidious fears Yoda. and i guess if you look at it from a saga POV one could say that Yoda won the war. the battle/ dule was a draw.

 

"but just watching the duel one could say that Sidious fears Yoda." Exactly, why is it that Sidious attempts to leave, after Yoda throws him up against the wall; if he were not afraid or at least hesitant of fighting him? I would unequivacobly argue that Yoda finally got the better hand towards the end of the duel! You're right! Sidious won the battle in the sense that he managed to "survive" his encounter with Yoda. Yoda on the other hand, won the war because he was able to elude the Republic's Jedi purges, thus passing on the traditions of the Jedi to Luke and Leia. In the end, Sidious LOST the war because he was incapable of destroying ALL of the Jedi ESPECIALLY Yoda!

 

my only complain about this duel(well, moreso about mace vs palps)...is that at the end of the duel, yoda is not in a postition that appears that he can defeats sidous, yet there is mace, and he does it....i can NOT stand it.....well i mean, both yoda and mace beat palpatine in saber duel...but i mean, it should NOT appear that mace can kill the sith lord when yoda cant...but my excuse is that sidious found the easy way out in both duels, but if i had a change to change one thing it in the saga, it would be that whole duel(i would defaintly make the possee last longer, and have a better end to the duel)

 

I have to agree, But you also have to remeber the enviroments that they were in were very diffrent.

Enviroment obviously plays a BIG part in a duel

 

Sidious was not trying to kill Mace, he could have knocked the saber out of his hand like he did to Yoda. He was waiting on Anakin.

 

Well this isnt the Mace vs. Sidious discussion

 

Yup. A 60 or 70 year-old who killed 4 Jedi Masters, recovering from a bout of reflected Force lightning and who just finished fighting the Jedi Grand Master of the Jedi Order as a whole all in the span of a few hours. And he still didn't look the least bit tired. Yoda, the same Yoda who fought Count Dooku in both a bout of Force proficiency and a lightsaber match without showing fatigue, was wheezing minutes afterwards. Yoda says many times that his size is not a factor, so why should his age at the time be a deciding factor? It's true that he was elderly. It's also true that he was not nearly as battle weary as Sidious. Palpatine's hellish rise to power and Yoda's advanced age negate the other. In my eyes they were on an equal and fair plane. Age wasn't a factor in the equation; Yoda lost because of his shortsightedness and his inferior Force mastery.

 

Actually he lost because because first it wasnt his destiny to defeat him and because it just so happens that he wasnt in the right spot on the pod.

 

Actually, Yoda was very tired after fighting Dooku. If you remember right at the end of their duel he is trying to catch his breath, and once Dooku escapes, Yoda calls up his cane and is moving "very slow."
It was Yoda's age in the end that lost him the fight when he fell to the ground. Yoda can't take a fall like that and just get up again as if nothing happened...like when George Burns slipped in the shower a few years back.
I don't think that Yoda was inferior in anyway with the Force. After all, he didn't lose the fight until he fell to the ground. He was doing fine with reflecting the lightning back at Sidious. If Sidious had also fallen, perhaps it would've been a different story.

 

It seems to me that Yoda's age really does slow him down when he's not actively connecting to the force...so after any fight, once he "lets go," he'll get tired. Palpatine is an older guy, but not 900.

Anyway....as posted by many others before me...Yoda lost because he's small, so he got blasted OFF the pod, whereas Sidious is human-sized, so he only got blasted back, and could hold onto the rail before falling. Simple as that. Before that, the fight was equal, although I think Yoda showed he had better force mastery, palpatine had gained the high ground, which is an advantage, as we know well from some other duel. But it seemed to me as if The Force itself was in favor of the dark side that day.

 

yoda did also fall a long ways down. must have hurt lol

 

Painful

 

Darth Sidious fought like a scrub against Yoda. Yoda clearly defeated Sidious in a test of wills, but lost the larger fight, which was to rid the galaxy of the Sith and try and restore the order while there was little chance that it could stil survive.