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Senate Our Corporate Overlords vs Orange Stained Fascism: the 2024 US Presidential Election Thread

Discussion in 'Community' started by anakinfansince1983 , Mar 21, 2024.

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Who are you supporting for President in 2024?

  1. Biden/Harris

    46.7%
  2. Trump/the noose for Mike Pence

    6.7%
  3. RFK Jr/Aaron Rodgers

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Claudia de la Cruz (Party of Socialism and Liberation)

    1.7%
  5. Cornell West/?

    1.7%
  6. Coach Beard/Roy Kent

    1.7%
  7. Meteor. Please send the meteor.

    41.7%
  1. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Aug 16, 2002
    Something is better than nothing and I've known a few people who've gotten forgiveness, but this has taken too long and the administration is unwilling to be aggressive in the fight against the Supreme Court. I think it's fair to criticize them for refusing to bend the law to help people when they will totally ignore US and international law to deny migrants the right to claim asylum or, you know, provide literally tens of billions of dollars worth of weapons to Israel for its ongoing genocide.
     
  2. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    That’s kind of fair. But the major qualifier there is that: A) defense and immigration have traditionally been areas where the Executive Branch is given more leeway and B) probably more importantly right now, the currenprene Court fundamentally wants the things you mentioned to happen, so as with the Muslim ban they are highly unlikely to stop it regardless of the underlying legality. That’s just not true of student loan forgiveness.This fight doesn’t happen on an even playing field.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2024
  3. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Biden should have pulled an Andrew Jackson regarding the Supreme Court telling him he “can’t” forgive student loans.
     
  4. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    I think a few of us on the Left are getting tired of watching GOP politicians bend every rule in the book to give their base what they want and then see Democratic politician throw their hands up and go "welp we can't do anything to give you what you want" after bending the rules to give Israel weapons.
     
  5. Vaderize03

    Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 1999
    Over anything, not just Israel.

    If SCOTUS restricts mifepristone, an opportunity will present itself for Biden to defy them as such a ruling will be based purely on politics without any grounding in actual science. I’m not expecting him to actually do much should said circumstance materialize.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2024
  6. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2001
    Also EMTALA...
     
    Vaderize03 likes this.
  7. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2015
    Well, I'm glad that Biden/Harris won the most votes simply because I don't want Trump. I voted for the asteroid. However, I would vote for Biden if it looked Trump would win. Just being real about it. My concern is that Trump would try to implement Project 2025 and several governors, including mine, would disagree completely or partially. I mean, we in Western Oregon like LGBTQ rights, we like smoking weed after work, and we like trying to help our neighbors understand BLM. We just wouldn't like the conservative bull****. Plus, we lot some fairly strong unions out here who have declined Starbucks' business and added new locally owned stores.

    I mean, I hope that Trump's somewhat lessened popularity and his weird speeches drive away moderates just like his court cases have shunned independents. But if anyone gives this election to Trump, it will be Biden through this genocide-support he's idiotically doing. I believe the good thing is that the Left learned from the Iraq War, but the center is split on it and the right loves the ethnic cleansing regime.

    Anyhow, just trying to run analysis. If anything makes Biden win, it will be the pro-choice movement rather narrowly giving him a victory. Both he and Trump are undermining themselves to make this closer than it would be, I think. Such a bizarre election. If it were Gulliver's Travel's-style satire, it would be somewhat ironic. Unfortunately, it ain't.
     
  8. ThereseAn'ya1994

    ThereseAn'ya1994 Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Oct 9, 2023
    You mean that we can't trust Trump to destroy himself. Sure can't trust the courts for that. Jack Smith, Fani Willis, and E. Jean Carroll are the only ones actually trying to bring him down. Letitia James was going great until the judge said Trump could pay less than $400. Dumb judge. For my part I love Carroll's continuing courage.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2024
  9. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Aug 16, 2002


    It's a stupid question for Donald Trump to ask, but it's also a weird thing for Democratic pundits to focus on. While COVID is less of a threat than it was before vaccines were available, the US effectively surrendered to the virus and decided that hundreds to thousands of deaths per week (still varies a lot) and who-knows-how-many long COVID cases that measurably affect school attendance and workforce participation are completely acceptable.

    COVID is also not the whole picture. Financially speaking, no, I am not better off. Housing and (car) transportation cost more than ever, food prices keep increasing, interest rates for loans are much higher than four years ago, and despite raises my pay isn't keeping up.

    That's not to mention things going on that don't directly affect me. My country is doing awful **** at the direction of the current president, some of which was not happening four years ago or at least nowhere near this scale.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2024
  10. Darkslayer

    Darkslayer #2 Sabine Wren Fan star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2013
    History teacher here. That is not why the electoral college was devised. The framers of the Constitution were concerned that the average citizen would not be knowledgeable enough to be able to vote.

    Source: The Federalist Papers
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2024
  11. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Aug 16, 2002
    I'm not sure how your response is meaningfully different than my framing.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2024
  12. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    A lot of people aren’t knowledgeable enough to vote, and with gerrymandering and the electoral college, and both parties working primarily or solely for rich people, they have no reason to become knowledgeable enough.
     
  13. Darkslayer

    Darkslayer #2 Sabine Wren Fan star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2013
    You know what, on second look, you've got a point.
     
    Darth Guy likes this.
  14. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I’m listening to a Best of the Left episode from earlier in the week and this line came up:

    The race this year is not between Biden and Trump. It’s between Biden and the couch.

    This was in response to Hillary Clinton going on TV and telling voters who are unhappy with a Biden-Trump rematch to ‘get over it.’ There was additional commentary that if Biden and Democrats are going to have any chance in the fall, the DNC can start by telling Hillary Clinton to STFU. Telling people to ‘get over it’ will not get them to the polls, and Democrats only win when turnout is high.

    Hell, ‘get over it’ makes me want to stay home, and my number one priority is keeping the far right out of power.
     
    Yodaminch, Rew, Count Yubnub and 2 others like this.
  15. Lowbacca_1977

    Lowbacca_1977 Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2006
    I can't imagine the cluelessness involved in anyone associated with the Democrats being okay with Hillary Clinton doing that given how effective we've already seen her be at beating Trump.
     
    Lord Vivec and Yodaminch like this.
  16. Rylo Ken

    Rylo Ken Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2015
    The Trump trial is going to eat up most of the time available for more Trump trials before the election. At least it's not televised. CNN already has its hands full between cheerleading for Israel and empty-headed anti-Trump punditry.
     
  17. moreorless12

    moreorless12 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 4, 2016
    Tells you were their priorities really are and its clearly not in keeping Trump out.
     
    Lowbacca_1977 likes this.
  18. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    This trial will take two months at the outside. Let’s round up and and say that runs until July 1. That’s still a full 160 days until November.

    The only thing really “eating up time” is Trump sycophants in high office deliberately delaying his trial in a nakedly partisan attempt to enable him to drop the charges against himself once re-elected.
     
  19. Rylo Ken

    Rylo Ken Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2015
    Getting a verdict in the NY criminal case will happen at least. Getting a verdict in the GA case before Nov would be ideal. Trump can't halt those prosecutions as president or pardon himself. The federal cases are of course toast if Trump gets elected.
     
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  20. Luke02

    Luke02 Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 19, 2002
    The NYC trial should be done, with a possible verdict before Memorial Day Weekend. Depending on how slow the MAGA Supreme Court puts out its verdict, the DC case should be started and possibly wrapped up around Election Day unless, of course, they decided Trump is an emperor, which, while that is unlikely even for them, it's still possible. The odds of the Georgia case being started and wrapped up are slim, but it's still possible. Meanwhile, Jack Smith will be in court still down in Florida trying to get Judge MAGA Cannon

    So it's very likely that, in a couple of these cases, Trump could be tried and convicted in at least 1, if not 2, or possibly even 3 cases where he is found guilty of multiple felonies. But let's face it, that won't matter as listen to the governor of NH say he will vote for Trump even if he is convicted of felonies:

    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/chris-sununu-stands-jan-6-criticism-trump-now/story?id=109205941

    What's scariest about that is Sununu isn't MTG or Boebert. He is from a political family, and even though I cannot stand him, I admit he is not a stupid person. But even being the governor of NH, a state that prides itself on being "independent" in terms of political leanings but in recent years has tilted towards Democrats (at least in presidential and senate races), even he does not feel like he cannot step out of the Trump Cult without washing away his political career.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2024
    SithOverlord101 likes this.
  21. Yodaminch

    Yodaminch Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 6, 2002
    The real question is if the Supreme Court rules that Trump does not have immunity, how fast will Judge Chutkan move that trial along? She very well could have him in court by August/September. And then he will (naturally) complain it's impacting his campaigning. But, we already know her feelings on that.

    Thing is, Biden and team need to then capitalize on this and actually hold events to draw people in. Trump has lost a lot of effective surrogates and his bottom of the barrel B team won't be enough without the main attraction.

    And then there is the VP pick. I really hope he picks Ben Carson. Nothing screams excitement more than Ben Carson.
     
    Ghost and SithOverlord101 like this.
  22. Lowbacca_1977

    Lowbacca_1977 Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2006
    I hope he picks Herman Cain
     
    Ghost, SithOverlord101, dp4m and 2 others like this.
  23. Yodaminch

    Yodaminch Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 6, 2002
    Herman might be a bit more...lively than Ben or Trump at this point. :p
     
  24. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2015
    I'm curious about this, too. I was thinking that the Supreme Court would come up with a weird middle road. They would say that Trump does not have immunity, but it doesn't apply to this case. Something like that. But it looks like Thomas and Alito have convinced the three Trump appointees that they can get away with overtly fascistic language. So, we'll see. I thought it would be dumb for them to say the president has immunity, as that would make Biden a temporary monarch in a way.

    Oh, I hope so, too. That would be funny. Carson and Trump are the clumsiest liars of all time. But I agree with what you're saying that Trump is losing surrogates and supporters due to his weird positions and speeches. His abortion position pissed off both the right and left. So, yeah. Interesting and bizarre election upcoming. Heh.
     
  25. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    This is a great point, and one of the most essential observations of the era. Not that it's novel, but it is incredibly important. Donald Trump would be absolutely nothing if there was any commitment to principle, or even just coordinated action. But instead, most every Republican chooses sycophancy up until the moment that they personally are ruined, and then they begin to finally admit the things about Trump that were obvious all along. His power depends entirely on the choice of these people to be spineless.
     
    Yodaminch, Alpha-Red, Ghost and 2 others like this.