PT Padme leaving Anakin & the very dark emotional undertones of ROTS

Hey all! Should Padme have left Anakin? Or would she have? I know we don't see any versions of divorce, per se, in the original six films, but I'm sure something like that exists. In this thread I want to talk a little bit about the emotional ramifications of the Mustafar encounter, Anakin going dark, and so on, especially for Padme. Because the events of the film and emotions displayed by Padme and Anakin make it clear that this is going to end terribly, and it does. Padme may have been forced to leave Anakin, and we know Anakin would oppose this with all his strength.

This all presents a very compelling and dramatically intense possibility: Padme being forced to give birth to the children and hide from Anakin, hiding the children from him, in terror of her life and of their lives. This provides a particularly stark and sober view of the whole situation -- almost horrifying, really. It really puts it into perspective. I think when she pleads with Anakin to come back, she is not just pleading for herself. She is pleading for her children's new lives, they will need a father. She is pleading for the life they've built together. She is pleading for some shred of hope for the future they dreamt of together. All of which Anakin will throw away and destroy.

I can't imagine the anxiety and hopeless panic of this pregnant woman, of realizing that the person who you have bet everything on, the person who has given you your children, the person you are most vulnerable too turns out to be this crazed, violent supporter of fascism (who also is extremely powerful -- much more powerful than you). You always saw the hints before but you thought: maybe it's nothing, maybe he will grow out of it, maybe I can save him. But now it's clear: there is no saving. Now he turns violent on you for the first time as he tries to choke you; you are terrified for the safety of the children you carry with you.



I mean, this is some dark, dark stuff here. And all of that is openly presented in the film. All one has to do is emotionally put themselves in the shoes of the character to realize the true horror. There's almost an abuser/victim scenario here -- one that never gets totally off the ground because the victim dies almost immediately, but the abuser/victim scenario almost surely would have played out more fully if Padme had survived. That is indeed horrifying. This why I don't feel as sad as I used to when I watch Revenge of the Sith. I feel horrified. Absolutely horrified and sickened. Don't get me wrong, it's a great movie, and it has themes of tragedy that are quite sad. But when I first saw it, I naturally felt for Anakin considering he was the character we've been following. And the reasons he falls are quite understandable, though not exactly commendable by any means. So I feel for Anakin.



But now that I am older though, I no longer empathize with Anakin as much. I feel the most sorrow for the lives of Obi-Wan and Padme, the two closest people to him who believed in him, and he completely let them down. He threw everything away and destroyed their lives. It's just completely awful and if you think about if you were in their shoes, if that was happening in your life, you would just be nauseated, just sick to your stomache, and traumatized probably forever. Yet, and this is the brilliance of Sith, even with all that said I still feel for Anakin, I really do. We know he is acting out fears of the traumas that happened to him. I just see it more from the lives of those closest to him now, who gave him everything, only in return to be paid back with horrors and traumas. I will -- pretty soon I think -- write an essay, possibly the first of a few, looking at Anakin's life and uncovering some of his psychological makeup. I think it's fair to say that Anakin is unstable at the end, and that Palpatine took advantage of Anakin's psychological issues for his perverse advantage. But even then, on his own Anakin remains a character people can relate to and one who is immensely interesting

Back to Padme though. I remember the early days of the EU, all the talk of 'Lady Vader' and how she seemed a tragic figure who had to hide for her life from Vader after the Clone Wars. I always wondered: what kind of person would marry Vader? I was very fascinated by that question (as was Luke). Of course, we know now -- a person of absolute idealism would marry the seeds of Vader. And that makes perfect sense. But what happens when that idealism is crushed? We know Padme dies, and although this may sound extremely harsh (as I do love Padme's character) that was a somewhat easy fate, compared to the alternative. A life of more assassination attempts from all sides. People trying to get to Vader through you. Using your children against you. There'd be no rest. Vader trying to hunt you down and take the children. Threats everywhere. One can scarcely imagine what Palpatine would do as well. It's all really scary, and if Luke and Leia had been with Padme I almost wonder if they would have all died at some point through some brutal assassination or something considering how important she would be. I just don't know how you can sneak away from all this -- you certainly can't sneak away from Vader.

We all know she dies, and none of that happens in full, but I'm just curious -- do you think Padme would have left Anakin? Should she have? Could she have? It seems that she is definitely thinking of leaving him at the end of Revenge of the Sith and I think that's extremely commendable. She could have just gone along with him and given up on democracy or sanity, but instead she like her son Luke refuses power and refuses to compromise her ideals. She wants a relationship with a sane person on healthy terms, and when she realizes that's not really going to happen even when she allows for it and offers it again and again at the end, when she realizes it's just getting unhealthier, she says no, and that's a big strength of hers. Unfortunately she pays a heavy price for that.



It just makes me wonder what is going through Padme's mind and her emotions through the middle to the end of Revenge of the Sith -- we are allowed to see that she's very worried, very distraught, very depressed. To imagine the terrifying options in front of her, her realizing that if it's all true what Obi-Wan says she may have to leave Anakin -- and then coming to the horrifying conclusion that Anakin would never let Padme leave him. Especially with the kids. It's all a little scary I think. But the subtext is all there in the film. It's stuff like that that makes me also appreciate Obi-Wan's role -- even though he used her to get to Anakin, he told her the truth about Anakin and he tried to take care of her until the end. He was a true friend despite any mistakes he made.

I don't know the real purpose in starting this thread other than to provoke discussion this topic and hear your thoughts and feelings. I also wanted to share a song I often listen to when I think about this end-game scenario for Padme and I imagine how she must have felt.



The whole song builds towards darkness, but especially from 3:18 forward, it just is truly tragic. The bleak hopelessness of it, the themes of darkness and having to hide, and the lines of 'let him go' almost like in the back of her mind her conscience is telling her to leave him yet she finds that so hard to do, so dangerous for her, she's thinking about the welfare of her children... It's all so much. I think all the lines relate to her situation in some way. She's invested so much in Anakin. She's believed in him so much. And it must be excruciating to leave him, let alone the consequences of that action. She could have left him so many times before, even after the Tatooine massacre, but she always believed in him and accepted him. To leave Anakin must feel like it's leaving her idealism behind, and that must feel like it would crush Padme forever (in the end, even facing death, she can't bear it -- she believes in him still, even when she is dying probably thanks to him, just self-preserving and staying alive long enough so she can deliver the babies for their safety). As victims of trauma, violence, and abuse know, it is harder than it sounds to leave a situation like that. And relating it to Padme's situation just breaks my heart. The song just really hits me in the full sadness and horror of the situation...

no more nightmares​

no more nightmares​

​

let him go​

let him go​

​

let him go​

you know you won't​

let him go​

you know you want​

let him go​

let him go​

It's all such a horrifying and traumatic situation and end for these characters, particularly for young mother Padme. I'd like to hear your feelings and/or thoughts regarding all this. I felt like it deserved it's own post and thread. I'll just end this post more open-ended for more varied and authentic responses in the thread.

 

EU Palpatine, at least, believed that once she'd found out everything, their love would have died:

Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader.

Not for the first time Sidious wondered what might have happened had Anakin not killed Padme on Mustafar. For all she loved him, she never would have forgiven Anakin's action at the Jedi Temple. In fact, that was one of the reasons Sidious had sent him there. Clone troopers could have dealt with the instructors and younglings but Anakin's presence was essential in order to cement his allegiance to the Sith, and more importantly, to seal Padme's fate. Even if she had survived Mustafar, their love would have died- Padme might even have lost the will to live- and their child would have become Sidious's and Vader's to raise.

 

I completely agree that Padmé would have left Anakin; I simply cannot see an option where she goes with him and either subdues her will to his, or tries to play a game with him, letting him think that he has got his way while planning something behind his back. I think when Obi-Wan asks her "The child... it's Anakin's, isn't it?" something sinks in that she has done something terrible by agreeing to live a lie with Anakin because they thought it would be worse to deny their love, as it cut them away from all the sources of support that one should usually be able to rely on, and she cannot further this deception anymore (even though I doubt Obi-Wan thought so far when asking this question). Running away may seem cowardly and irresponsible, but at least it is not the same as deception.

I think one of the reasons why Padmé "loses the will to live" is that she's terrified of what Anakin/Vader will try to do, claiming that it's "for her sake", or if she becomes a pawn used by Palpatine to control Vader. She has tried to convince Anakin to turn back to the light as a living person and failed miserably and if her living on could be a threat to the galaxy in the long run, I can definitely see why she would consider death instead. So I think that even if she had not died on Polis Massa, she would eventually have wasted away of depression (or worse, considered suicide) eventually, even if she has her children by her side (who I am sure would be well cared-for by whoever is offering her shelter). Of course one could argue that the idea of Padmé's death caused Vader to turn, but I would say that he has turned to such an extent by that time that pretty much nobody except Sidious might believe that Padmé living would constitute hope for Vader to turn back towards the light - those who want her to live simply wish it because life is supposed to be sacred and good.

 

Would she? I remember her stating that she wanted to run away even after she found out he "killed" younglings.

 

I was referring to the progression of events subsequent to the meeting on Mustafar. I'm sure she's horrified that Anakin killed younglings, but I think during their discussion on Mustafar she is willing to go away with him if she can get him to stop walking down the dark side right then, even if it will forever stain her soul. Of course it will make them fugitives, but at least they will have acknowledged that they did something bad, even if they are cowardly running away from it. But when Anakin makes it clear that he's not going to consider stopping there, it crosses a boundary that she's not willing to cross, because she has seen the effects of deception once and she simply cannot do deception again.

 

In her conversation with Bail, in the ROTS novelization, she seems to have a presentiment that she won't live much longer - maybe because she sees herself as being on Palpatine's Target List:

Bail couldn't hear Padme over the din, but he could read her lips.
So this is how liberty dies, she was saying to herself. With cheering, and applause.
"We can't let this happen!" Bail lurched to his feet. "I have to get to my pod—we can still enter a motion—"
"No." Her hand seized his arm with astonishing strength, and for the first time since he'd arrived, she looked straight into his eyes. "No, Bail, you can't enter a motion. You can't. Fang Zar has already been arrested, and Tundra Dowmeia, and it won't be long until the entire Delegation of the Two Thousand are declared enemies of the state. You stayed off that list for good reason; don't add your name by what you do today."
"But I can't just stand by and watch—"
"You're right. You can't just watch. You have to vote for him."
"What?"
"Bail, it's the only way. It's the only hope you have of remaining in a position to do anyone any good. Vote for Palpatine. Vote for the Empire. Make Mon Mothma vote for him too. Be good little Senators. Mind your manners and keep your heads down. And keep doing... all those things we can't talk about. All those things I can't know. Promise me, Bail."
"Padme, what you're talking about—what we're not talking about—it could take twenty years! Are you under suspicion? What are you going to do?"
"Don't worry about me," she said distantly. "I don't know I'll live that long."​

 

*Jumps in from nowhere and lands dramatically in this thread* 'Sup?

So this article really got me thinking about the whole idea of "Padme losing the will to live" and how that never sat well with me, because it seemed so contrary to the rest of her character. I'm curious what your thoughts are on this...

http://www.retrozap.com/padme-didnt-die-of-a-broken-heart/

 

I think at that point she's desperate. I think she knows deep down that Anakin will never let her leave him, and that's a terrifying possibility. I think there's a little denial going on when she's telling him he should just come with her and it will be fine -- I think at that moment she is very emotional (for good reason) and, as I said, desperate. Anakin is the last thing she has. The Republic just crumbled, the Jedi are gone, Palpatine betrayed everyone -- everything she worked for is completely and utterly dust. She cares about her children and she wants a future for them with Anakin. He's their father, she wants to have a family life. She's dreamed about it, she hopes for it, it's what they've planned on and what they've sacrificed so much for. So I think she makes that offer to put that aside sort of desperately hoping Anakin's not that far gone; I don't think she believes it at first that he did those things, after all, Anakin tells her himself that Obi-Wan's basically lying to her. It's only when she sees Anakin want ultimate power and sees how deranged he is that she realizes he has gone completely mad and has done those things -- "Obi-Wan was right."

When Anakin killed the sand people, he was confused and extremely guilty, suffering from the death of his mother who was tortured and who knows what else by the sand people. I think Padme can let that one slide a bit. But Anakin shows no guilt to her about what he's done, he shows none of that vulnerability -- in AOTC he starts crying after he says he wants ultimate power. I think anyone can see it's just because he's hurting so much. But in ROTS, he is not crying to her about it, he is almost positive about it, he has delusions of grandeur in his eyes. That's when Padme realizes he's far gone and that she can't continue on with him on his path. Which no doubt must be a terrifying possibility and a very heavy choice considering -- a) your children are Anakin's as well, b) Anakin is probably the most powerful Jedi ever, you are not, c) Anakin is pals with Palpatine who can get anything done, and d) Anakin is basically mentally unstable at this point. All of that is a very, very bad situation for someone like Padme to be in. So I think she has reason to be desperate and try to avoid that conclusion. It's a tug and pull between, 'I love you!' and 'You are going down a path I can't follow.' But in the end she does tell him she can't follow him.

 

It thematically works just fine. Lucas is telling the story of Faust. Palpatine wasn't involved. I'll quote what I said on this topic elsewhere:

With all that said, I'd like if this thread could maybe be about Padme's emotional situation and her situation with Padme/Anakin, rather than about the thematic choice of broken-hearted death or Palpatine's role in it.

 

Well, if all you're looking for is whether or not Padme would have left Anakin had she not conveniently (for a mythological narrative's sake) just kicked the bucket...then yes, she would have. She said to him that he was going down a path she couldn't follow. And if there's one thing that TCW made apparent, was that Padme would always put her ideals before Anakin if they clashed. She was not one to let him bully her into doing whatever he wanted. So, since he was spitting in the face of everything that she spent her entire life working towards - baby daddy or no - she wouldn't have stayed with him. That's not the character that Lucas created her to be. She was strong, stubborn, idealistic, and probably had a straighter moral compass than most of the Jedi on the council.

I know you don't seem to want to dwell on her death, but rather on her emotional state, but I don't think you can separate the two. You believe that her emotional state caused her death, but I've never believed that. She was distraught, of course, but Padme was always in better control of her emotions than Anakin was. Her death was necessary for the story to continue - though obviously Lucas changed his mind and killed her a lot sooner that he had originally intended (since Leia miraculously remembers her in RoTJ). Whether he intended RoTS to play out like Faust or not, I think he built her character up to be far too strong to be made a "death of femininity" sacrifice. Padme loved Anakin, but she was older and a lot more mature than he was, and far more dedicated to her cause. No matter what the actual circumstances of her death, I am certain that, had she lived, she would have fled to Alderaan with Bail and gone into hiding, visiting Leia once in a while (explaining why Leia remembered her as " very beautiful, kind, but sad"). That was one discrepancy that I really disliked. You can explain away a lot of the mistakes between the OT and the PT, but that one cannot be swept under the carpet. I feel that Lucas felt he was too crunched for time or what not to kill her properly, so he just made her a necessary sacrifice and moved on. I felt as though it was a disservice to her character, to her relationship with Anakin, and to the other characters that she was attached to.

 

I guess I had meant for this thread to be about emotionally relating or coming back to the experience of Padme facing these terrible choices in front of her, not narrative decisions, but it seems instead the latter is at least where some of this is going. Oh well.

I don't believe that, and nowhere did I say that. It's left open in the films why she died. It's thematic. I don't believe there is an explanation that is direct. In a world where the Force exists, and in a film where she represents the feminine moral natural light personified, and in a story where she is Gretchen to Anakin's Faust, she simply has to die and it makes sense to me. It's a mystical film and it's all metaphorical. That's what it is. 'Her emotional state caused her death?' That would be, in my view, the wrong way to read the film. I believe she persisted despite the fact that she was going to die, long enough to give birth. No one knows why she died (probably Anakin's abuse on Mustafar had something to do with it), and like I said, it's thematically important, not literally important. Thematically we know why she died.

He did.

It's a tragedy. In a tragedy, light starts out strong and dark starts out weak. The light doesn't die in a sacrifice. It dies by being snuffed out until it is killed. Thematically the entire trilogy illustrates this nearly perfectly in so many ways it would be difficult to know where to start. If in the end her life feels like it was ripped unfairly and prematurely from everyone, that's exactly the point.

Agree to disagree.

Anyway, I'd like to get back to the more emotional subject at hand of Padme's inner life and the ramifications of her separation from Anakin. I agree with you that Padme had many commendable qualities and would have probably left Anakin. For more discussion on the narrative choices regarding Padme, and whether people like it or not, there have been countless other threads elsewhere on the board to discuss that topic that, if one is so inclined, I would recommend checking out to discuss there. But for those here, I guess I'm thinking more in-canon stuff, inner stuff, maybe what people can relate to or what moved them or what they were thinking in regards to the emotional topics of the original post? I will leave it open ended but sort of along those lines.

 

I guess I was getting the impression from you that you believed that her emotions concerning Anakin were what ultimately caused her death. That it was her emotional attachment to him, and the depression of losing everything - her husband, the Republic, and everything she fought for that caused her to lose the will to live. We know that Anakin choking her had nothing to do with her physically dying because the droids said there was nothing physically wrong with her. You don't retroactively die from being choked, that's kind of silly. If it didn't kill her immediately, it wouldn't have had anything to do with her death later, or it would have been addressed as something physically wrong with her.

So to me, since nothing was wrong with her physically, either her emotional/mental state regarding Anakin was what killed her, or it was an outside influence. If she lost the will to live, and could no longer go on, it would have taken time for her to die. For instance, in The King and I when the King loses the will to live because he recognizes that everything he has ever known is crumbling to the ground and he can no longer walk the line of being a strong king and good king, he dies. But it takes weeks because he doesn't eat or sleep and wastes away. One cannot simply lose the will to live, and then like a mental switch your organs start shutting down and you die immediately. Her death made perfect sense, but the way she died did not, IMO. I won't say any more about her death, since I can see you have separated that from her emotional state. I just feel that if you don't believe that Palpatine killed her, then it had to be her emotional state that ultimately caused her demise...

We see in her last words that Padme had not lost hope. She believed that there was still good in Anakin, and I believe that had she not died, she would have tried to eventually find a way to reach out to him. She knew that she couldn't stay with him, to do so would be to throw away everything she believed in and valued. Besides that, no mother is going to let a guy who just murdered a bunch of kids be anywhere near hers, even if he was the father. But she still recognized that he was not completely gone. He was deranged and clearly being manipulated by Palpatine. And Palpatine had been trusted at one point by her as well, but now she recognized that he had been false all along. I'm sure she realized exactly who it was that was pulling Anakin's strings after their confrontation, and harbored some hope that she could influence him back to the side of good.

For that reason, I never saw Padme as a victim of Anakin. Yes, he choked her, which left no physical damage, as I've already addressed. His actions hurt her emotionally, but if that constitutes abuse, then we are all abusers and victims. But she told him that she could not follow him. She wasn't going to let him continue to hurt her emotionally, nor was she going to let their child(ren) be raised with a man who had embraced darkness. Those are not the actions of someone who is a victim. And even when her life was slipping (or being stolen) away from her, she retained the hope that he still had a chance of redemption, proving that she had not allowed him to emotionally push her into despair either.

Anakin had always sought to control the outcome of things he didn't deem fair - he'd done that all along and he had been deluded into believing that he was strong enough to change fate. But the tipping point was when he couldn't let go of Padme. Padme knew that, which is why I think she would have stayed true to her resolve to stay away from him. They had lived a lie for so long, keeping their love secret from anyone who could have helped them, like Obi-Wan. And it was Padme who had insisted that they keep it a secret, because she didn't want him to lose his place with the Jedi. I'm sure she regretted that decision. But even with that guilt hanging over her, she never lost the hope that what had been done could be undone - a hope that was ultimately fulfilled through her son.

So yeah, I think that once she saw that he had truly "gone dark", she was determined to leave him, but she retained the hope that she could do something to help him. It mirrors her resolve with the state of the Republic. She would do what she had to do to survive, but she would be working behind the scenes to change the outcome. But at that point, she suspected that Palpatine was already targeting her, so she doubted whether or not she could stay alive, which sadly (but necessarily) proved true. Sometimes I wonder if Padme was somewhat attuned to the force, she had remarkable foresight for someone so young.

 

Kopy.Kunoichi
- Was Padme in ROTS handled right or the latter?
- An explanation on the lost the will to live .
- [II Controversial] Padme's Death & Anakin's Turn
- Do you believe Palpatine killed Padmé?
- Death by Force Choke? - Could Padmé been saved?
- Is Padme Force sensitive?

There are so many threads on this board to discuss Padme's death the circumstances around it, along with people's criticisms of the movie. The ones above are just the relatively recent ones. Perhaps you can post your thoughts on her death there or speculate as to Palpatine's role or if she was a Force user or what-have-you, but that is the exact kind of stuff I wanted to avoid in this thread. I don't mean to belittle your thoughts (though I disagree with a fair number), but this is why I didn't mention her death in detail, or Palpatine, or her being a Force user. This thread isn't even about Padme's death. It's about her and her having to make difficult choices, the health or unhealth of her relationship to Anakin, and how it must have felt to be in her shoes. My real intention was hoping people could say, "Yeah, I imagined Padme was feeling this... or thinking this..." or "I actually can relate to this situation for..." or picking up on the point of the clear imbalance of power between her and Anakin.

I will very briefly address only a few of your thoughts because I want to return to the topic I started. "I just feel that if you don't believe that Palpatine killed her, then it had to be her emotional state that ultimately caused her demise..." -- no, it's not one or the other, and my response indicates that. This is thematic and spiritual stuff. Her emotions play a role. The act of Anakin choking her is emotional and symbolic. She dies thematically, like in many fairy tales. That's the last time I will try to clarify that point as I've already tried to twice. "For that reason, I never saw Padme as a victim of Anakin. Yes, he choked her, which left no physical damage, as I've already addressed. His actions hurt her emotionally, but if that constitutes abuse, then we are all abusers and victims." -- honestly I don't know where to start here. Suffice to say that choking your wife is grounds for abuse, whether or not it 'leaves physical damage' or not. And you have completely trivialized emotional abuse, which is a very serious thing -- if someone receives emotional abuse, then everyone has? No. I don't even know where to start in addressing that... "She wasn't going to let him continue to hurt her emotionally, nor was she going to let their child(ren) be raised with a man who had embraced darkness. Those are not the actions of someone who is a victim. " -- Just because you are a victim of someone else's abuse does not mean that you are just helpless and will continue to receive abuse forever. It doesn't define your life; you seem to be implying that if you are a victim of someone else, you have no agency and therefore are completely screwed. No. Just no. Besides which though, this is the same problem as with the above issue -- all of this is thematic. We do not literally have to have it spelled out to us that this is a very unhealthy dynamic. It's been hinted to us for quite some time now. Audiences should be able to read between the lines -- which, in ROTS, are especially blatant. Beyond that, I pretty much agree with your third and your last two paragraphs.

I would reply in more detail to your thoughts and why I have issues with some of them, but I do not want to derail this thread by going in that direction which so many other threads cover on a pretty regular basis. This thread was not meant to discuss issues with the movie or Padme's death or Palpatine's role or so on. Further up in this post I sort of laid out what I wanted it to be about, as signaled in the original post. I do think some of your latter thoughts in your post are more on-topic in that regard. But overall I do not want this thread to go too far into other areas that have been explored in depth; it's basically only for people who understand what I'm saying in the original post and who feel they can emotionally or intellectually contribute to those observations I made (as I certainly did not go into full depth with them).

 

For such a film for young children, it has undertones of broken relationships, broken marriage, miscommunication, lies and deceit.

The emotional state of Padme must have been brutal to live through. She really, wanted Anakin. Wanted to run from the state of problems, give up the republic and be with her children and Husband. To be at peace. But Anakin thought he was making peace, which we all know he wasn't.

The moment where she had her hands on her hand, it was a scene of contemplation. Thinking about the events, what could happen, what will happen, how she would handle Anakin...

Very beautiful post my brotha "X"(That's your nickname)

 

As always, great thread to discuss by xezene.
But I would like to clarify some points. First of all, no one ever has been afraid of Anakin/Vader taking the children (no matter that Padme had survived or not). No one in the movie: Yoda, Obi Wan, Organa was concerned to hide them from Anakin/Vader but from the emperor and the Sith. They knew that the real danger is the Emperor; Obi Wan said that to Luke in ROTJ. He didn't say: we have hided you (both twins) form your father, we have hided you from the Emperor. So, in this case Vader have been never the problem, the Emperor is the problem and is obvious why: no matter that he used the fear of Anakin to loose Padme, indeed the love of Anakin for Padme is the great obstacle to control him completely (that's why he lied to Anakin about the reasons for her death). But anyway, my point is that nobody ever thought that the twins could be in danger with his father but because of his father and the Emperor, that is completely different situation.
And what about Padme? I don't think she could ever think about such possibility: that Anakin would turn against his own children and as we know, he died to protect his son's life. She wasn't alone after Mustafar, she knew that surviving or not Obi Wan and Bail would protect the children till their last breath (and they did that). Speaking of that, I have always wondered if she knew what happened to Mustafar? I'm not sure that Obi Wan could tell her even that Anakin is alive, he just couldn't. Because I'm not sure if she could forgive him to what he have done to Anakin.
Yes, Anakin betrayed Obi Wan but Obi Wan also betrayed him going there, accepting the duel and I'll saying again without thinking what would happen to Padme. And here came the big difference between him and Padme, something that many people ignore saying even that the role of Padme in this movie is diminished. Obi Wan went to Mustafar to stop and probably kill Anakin, saying again that he did that at any cost, i.e. following Padme and practically cheating her. But why Padme went to Mustafar, anyway? To seek explanation? Of course not, because she could wait safe in Coruscant till Anakin return to ask him if the terrible things said by Obi Wan are true. She went to Mustafar to save him. To save him, because she was afraid: not from him, but for him. She was afraid if what Obi Wan said is true then Anakin is really lost as he said to her earlier in the movie and the only person in the world that could save him is she. Also, she couldn't wait to Corsucant because she was afraid that if Anakin returns Obi Wan would catch him and kill him. So she didn't cross the half universe pregnant and alone to seek revenge, explanations, or to judge Anakin for his (eventual) actions, she went there to help him and to try to save him because she loves him. This is the real love, not some stupid romances, flowers and presents. The real love is to forgive, to help and always try to save the other one, not only physically but to save his/her soul. Someone would say: she is blinded by love; couldn't she see what he has become? Well, all the opposite: she knows that deep in his heart he is the same, there is still good in him, he could be saved from the darkness. So this is her real feat and her real strength: she never betrayed him, she always believed that he could be saved, he could be turned back and as we all know, she was right. Unfortunately she couldn't survive to see that but she knew it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure she would never follow him or accept his new persona. Actually, xezene, she would never become Lady Vader because she loved Anakin, and Vader is not Anakin (I agree with Obi Wan in this aspect). But not accepting his way of life is one thing and rejecting the person is completely different thing. Is like when somebody falls in drug abuse: generally his family is trying to help, but never follow the person's "path". So if she could survive those events, she wouldn't become Lady Vader, but she would never stop trying to save him.


P.S. I know that many people are angry to Anakin for what he did and want him been punished, that's why they think that is even unfair that Padme forgave him and tried to save him, but as I said this is the real love: to love the person even when he/she is lost in the dark and to believe and that he/she could come back, this is the real heroism. It is easy to estimate the people from the point is they deserve or not being with you. But Padme has never thought of any "deserving". She just loved Anakin: purely and deeply and that is the real reason that she could foreseen that he could be redeemed.
Also, Anakin is punished. He really loved Padme and when she died, most part of him also died (not only literally). Even worse, he was punished to be buried alive in this suit, never capable to see the world trough his own eyes, never capable to breath and eat normally (I have always wondered how is Darth Vader eating) consumed by anger, guilt, rage and self hate, complete suffering and dying every day in the next almost 20 years. Sounds awful, isn't it? So Anakin paid but received a chance to be redeemed because his son (as Padme) believed there is still good in him.

 

Good stuff here. Lots to chew on, you have good points, especially about Padme trying to save Anakin. That is heartbreaking to think about. Even more tragic. And -- I'll just mention that the rationale for the fear of Anakin taking the kids isn't that he would hurt them; on the contrary, I think Anakin is shown to generally be a very possessive person, even jealous. I think he has serious problems with letting go. So I am almost certain Anakin would want to be a part of the kids' lives, even if he was Vader. When he discovers later on that Luke and Leia are his kids, his first instinct both times is to turn them to his side. As Lucas has said, Anakin's great issue is that 'doth loveth too much' -- he can be possessive in that way and can't let go. He really only lets go at the very end, after his redemption. So I think that's where that thought naturally came up about Anakin/Vader's role in lives of the kids, had that happened.

 

Just a random thought that occurred to me. I don't think this thought deserves its own thread, and since it is a continuation of what I said above about Padmé realising "that she has done something terrible by agreeing to live a lie with Anakin because they thought it would be worse to deny their love", I thought I would share it in this thread. Apologies if this post veers slightly on a tangent with respect to the topic of this thread.

Mythologically, the reason why Obi-Wan triumphs over Anakin in the duel in Sith comes down to the absence vs the presence of deception - hence Obi-Wan's line "I have the high ground!" Obi-Wan is portrayed as a stickler for the rules for much of Menace and Clones, which leads some viewers to say that he's "too stiff", but it's done for a reason - so that when the duel in Sith comes around, the audience knows that this is a person who has made the sacrifices demanded of him, so that he can lead his life with a clear conscience. This is the reason why the topic of Obi-Wan's romantic attachments in his youth has been tackled not just once, but twice, in the Expanded Universe - to illustrate that at the end of the day, he could not possible live with the kind of deception that Anakin lives with (and is the reason I prefer the version in Secrets of the Jedi - because I think it brings across the theme of sacrifice better). Anakin believes that he can handle the deception he will pull, but his deception ends up destroying not only his family - both Padmé and the Jedi Order - but also the entire Galactic Republic.

Fast forward to Hope. The situation is now reversed: it is now Obi-Wan who deceives Luke, telling him the point-of-view he believes necessary to take Vader down. It is Luke, instead, who insists on accepting the truth, despite the pain it brings. And it is through that acceptance of the truth that Luke succeeds, where he might have failed if he had not acknowledged it.

I'm not a Christian, but it seems that the situation can be summarised by "the truth shall make you free". Returning to the topic of this thread, it means that mythologically, if Anakin does not turn himself in - deciding to stop but then running away does not count - Padmé must leave Anakin, if there is to be any hope for a Republic. Going in a different direction from Anakin will hurt tremendously, but it is the only way for the truth to bear out.

 

I agree wholeheartedly on what you said. Perfect I say my dear, brilliant!

I also didn't know he had some attachments in the EU(I thought it was just satine?)

And It's not a christian thing(I know because I am one). It's just part of the fundamentals of being human. Truth is something we all learn in life throughout our events living on the earth.

 

I will say whenever that scene on Mustafar comes up, and Padme's talking about his path, I find myself telling her, "Girlfriend, this is NOT the time to break up with Anakin. Dude is seriously psychotic right now."

I mean, it would have made for a bad movie, but I keep hoping she is able to placate him momentarily in order to either tranquilize him or run really far away as fast as she can.

Of course, the same thing happens every time.

 

Obi-Wan does not believe Padmé's last words.

 

Sorry to jump in there, but I always somehow thought that the opposite was true. Padme was not going to leave and she practically had Anakin convinced but then Obi-Wan just happened to come down the ramp and ruined everything. The shocked and terrified face that we see Padme's is reserved for that moment precisely, not when Anakin mentions the action he took to get him where he is now. Of course she is not happy to put it mildly, but she is dealing with it. I always was against having her character weaker than is should be - a career politician, a former queen and well used to surviving in the cut-throat world of politics and dirty dealings. Obi's warnings about politicians have fallen on deaf ears? Just because Padme's moral compass is set higher than the average planetary representative's she is by no means naive or inexperienced, otherwise it's hard to explain her professional success - the proof of which is Palpatine's desire to have her out of his way. He clearly sees her as a threat to his plans and acts accordingly. So with Padme an established political player of the highest rank and her experience and penchant for aggressive negotiations and obviously high stress situations, I simply don't believe that she was out of her depth. Of course the situation she found herself in was terrible and her stress is evident upon her landing the ship, but so is her determination to go through with her plan. Padme knew Anakin better that anyone - that is clear from both her actions and her words. She saw him both at his best and at his worst and despite that she threw in her lot with him, and even though the why of that is not completely clear to me, what is clear is her determination to stay till the end. And she would have turned that situation round like she has before - hopeless causes is her speciality, but for the unfortunate appearance of a certain self-righteous jedi. And hence the tragedy.

 

Isn't Obi-Wan bit of a cynic?

It suits him well for not believing her.

 

The cynic/conservative Jedi.

To Yoda's encompassing.

And Qui-Gon's maverick.

Obi-Wan is a mature, balanced Jedi in ROTS.

But that doesn't make him especially brilliant or wise.

Yes, it's quite the tragedy that he doesn't believe Padme's last words -- and look how popular a character Prequel Obi-Wan is.

 

He is too conservative, even when he was young and that is a big obstacle in the Jedi's life. When I say conservative I mean stick literally to the rules and not like Qui Gon who is following the rules but not always literally.

 

This is exactly how I felt during this scene. Sickened. Yeah, obviously, I wanted to see Vader killing people. That was cool. The scene with the kids dampened that somewhat, but when he wiped out the Separatists, I was extremely glad. I knew that Gunray had to die barely ten minutes into The Phantom Menace, and who better than Darth Vader to do the job.

Vader talking to Padme made me feel just as you said; sickened. It put me in mind of nothing more than a friend who has become a deluded junkie, and rants nonsense. People piss on Hayden Christensen's acting, but goddamn if he didn't sell this. Natalie was good, too.,