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Rocky M, NC Philosophical Debate on Religion **Enter At Your Own Risk**

Discussion in 'South East Regional Discussion' started by Lodreh, Apr 23, 2004.

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  1. Mordtat

    Mordtat Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 20, 2004
    Kid with the Bomb:
    Within the state of a Muslim nation, any killing of an innocent is wrong and those who are guilty of such sins shall be sent to hell. These people may be ignorant and tools of others but ignorance should not go unpunished. This is one of my faults I have with Christianity.

    It is not fair in my eyes that a person can become a serial killer and murder hundreds of people and be able to still be saved before he is killed. This makes me very angry and I hate the idea that people can be saved even after serious sins. This leads to my next fault with Christianity.

    I was taught that a sin is a sin no matter the size. How the hell can you say that? It is not logical that murder is on the same scale as stealing an ice cream bar from a local zip mart.

    As for the person with severe depression:

    If I was God he would be burning in hell. I am sorry but we all have problems that we are faced with day by day. I seriously think that the medical field has a lot of issues they need to work out. Did you know most kids with AD/HD do not need the medicine? This applies also with kids who are diagnosed with depression. What these kids and people need are good parents. They need parents who are there for them and teach them how to deal with their problems. Too many people are unable to accept that something is wrong with them as a person and they need to find some other means of explaining and justifying their weakness. People who use suicide as a way to escape are weak. Do not think for one second that having severe depression will make it ok for a person to kill themselves. I do not know if God is this way but if I was God these people would burn for all eternity.

    "I AM SO FREAKIN TIRED OF ME TELLIN PEOPLE WHAT IS RIGHT AND THEN THEY SAY "well such and such people did such and such that was bad"
    THAT IS THE STUPIDEST THING I HAVE EVER HEARD!
    PEOPLES ACTIONS DO NOT DEFINE WHAT A RELIGION IS!"

    This is a board is used to discuss many ideas that are hard for many people to speak about without getting emotional and out of control. With this in mind I have only two things to say, perhaps you should not post here if you can not conduct yourself with some sort of self-control and attempt to look deeper than face value with the things said here, if you don't you may just miss something.

    Christianity is a religion that also promotes spreading the word of Christ. You are supposed to preach to others. The fact that you are getting tired of doing the Lord's will must mean you are losing faith, that my friend is not a good thing or is it?

    Why is it stupid that the past has a direct impact on the future? The future is always determined by the past. I do not understand how you can not see this. You proclaim that you are a Christian and the way you conduct yourself will influence people that are around you. You as of now are acting and doing exactly what turns people off from religions. You right now are proving that religion is based on people's actions. However, should it be that way? No, it shouldn't but that is how the way the world is and you can't change that.

    "im not being judgemental, you guys are by saying that what a group of christians do is what the whole does. not everyone is perfect but that doesnt mean that you should say christanity is wrong because of hipocrites. i try not to judge people"

    No one on this board has said that Christianity was wrong. We are not here to discuss which religion is the right religion. We are not saying, we are stating that what people do affects the way others see their group. Perfect is example is when I went over to the Nashville Star Wars fan force board and posted a few cryptic things. I am part of the Rocky Mount Fan Force and what I do reflects positively and negatively on our Star Wars Chapter. Though the group was not apart of what I was doing, they were associated with it because I as a part of them. Do you see how that works? Well I am done for today, it is 5am and the game Fable is too addictive!

    As a suggestion, posting here can become quite a fr
     
  2. JediRiff

    JediRiff Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 2, 2002
    I like your questions, Eddie-wan. Out of those, I think the two that concern me most are #3 and #4. Especially, #4. I just do my darndest to try and raise my kids right, and give them a good life, so I guess if I DO, then that would answer number 3, eh? :D I just want to be the best father I can be for them, and I hope I do well.

    Oh, and Cam....

    ;)

    I'm proud of you, brudda. Talk to me Friday night about what I mean, if you arent sure.
     
  3. Sol_Badguy

    Sol_Badguy Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 25, 2004
    Well said entropy

    as for mordtat:
    "With this in mind I have only two things to say, perhaps you should not post here if you can not conduct yourself with some sort of self-control and attempt to look deeper than face value with the things said here, if you don't you may just miss something."

    i have only 1 retort:
    With this in mind I have only two things to say, perhaps you should not post here if you can not conduct yourself with some sort of self-control and attempt to look deeper than face value with the things said here, if you don't you may just miss something.

    meybe you should look at what i say more deeply

     
  4. Sol_Badguy

    Sol_Badguy Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 25, 2004
    to cam and holder
    the one thing that makes a lot of what you say so annoying is the fact that you cant truly fully understand what is in the bible unless you are a true follower of christ. you look at the bible with clouded eyes. you could never hope to understand that wich is contained theirin in your current state of mind. your responses only verify this to me
    that said
    i completely understand everything you are saying.
    your ignorance prevents anything you say from having any validity, and you cant blame an ignorant person for having incorrect view when compared to yours.
    they are just empty observations made by empty observers
    your trying to sound smart and philosophicle, but its just making you look like you have a lot of time to kill. so if you have any questions about christianity, ill be glad to answer them because i probably know the answer. please note that im not saying your wrong, im right, or that im perfect in any way. i probably have just as many, if not more flaws than you, but dont think you can "try and see how far you can push me", you cant reach the point that this toppic can no longer be pushed.
    we all have our views, and thats ok, but dont try and challenge other peoples views just for the pleasure of it, its not becoming of you.
    but i do think you guys are awsome even still (even though ive never met holder) since you are both good dms and all that jazz
    this is not a flame, just my views on the truth
    if it will make you feel any better, i will not post on this thread anymore, as you are obviosly having trouble with what im saying. (meybe your not reading it in the right context)
     
  5. Lodreh

    Lodreh Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2002
    That's it... I've tried to be fair and give you the benefit of doubt...

    Your arguments are as two dimensional as a sheet of toilet paper and far less useful. You seem to have no real concept of what you believe only that you are suppose to believe. So far you have come off as either someone who has never read the Bible only taken people's stories as truth or you are ridiculous enough to believe you are some sort of conduit to God ( which should always be capitalized btw ).

    Everyone on this thread has been cordial and tried to tell you to look for deeper meanings... in turn you spit their words back on them. In my eyes you are far less than worthless and will always remain so until you stop trying to look down on those who do not share your point of view.

    And just fyi... Mordtat is a Christian with 'unclouded eyes'. I was a Christian until I started thinking for myself and felt that the religion had moved away from the principles it was suppose to practice and preach.

    To those who read this board and know me well I apologize for this outburst.

    Lod-Reh SaJon ~
    "If you seek knowledge and understanding look to the Force.
    If you seek pain and suffering look no further than me."
     
  6. eddie-wan-kenobi

    eddie-wan-kenobi Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 14, 2003
    "religion had moved away from the principles it was suppose to practice and preach."

    To quote the song I'm currently listening to, sad but true.

    Sol, your opinions are more than welcome here, but you cannot lash out at another poster. Especially on this thread, which by the way, has a disclamier "Enter at your own risk" in the title. I dont think your a bad guy. You just APPEAR to be giving off the same vibes that turn away many from Christianity. The "ask me anything cause I probably know the answer" and "your ignorant" just aint gonna get you anything but a backlash. I actually agree with a some of the points your trying to get across. No one is trying to "push your buttons." Until we, as Christian folk, understand that, IMO, the best way to spread the word is to live the word, society nowadays will not take it seriously. Jesus never said having the biggest church, or the largest bank account would get you into heaven. He actually hated what they had done to the synagoges, if you remember. Unfortuntly, thats what so many of today's churches are concerned about. It would also be wrong for me to get up here and preach about how someone should act and then slop down three or four Blue Milks while lusting over some hottie.
    Bottom line: lets just keep it civil. Passionate, but civil. Okay, let me get off the soapbox now. :D
     
  7. Entropy

    Entropy Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 30, 2002
    Sol you seem to be laboring under a few misconceptions, both about the bible and Cam and Holder. I'll let them address the misconceptions about themselves, but here are a few about Christianity you should consider.

    the one thing that makes a lot of what you say so annoying is the fact that you cant truly fully understand what is in the bible unless you are a true follower of christ.

    A true follower of Christ would never presume to think that they fully understand what is in the bible. For centuries theologians have devoted their lives to the study of the bible and the nature of God, and still haven't come up with satisfactory answers.

    they are just empty observations made by empty observers

    They are observations made by a lot of non-believers. Regardless of how empty you think they are, they are something that Christians as a whole need to address. Both for our own spiritual growth and to break down the stereotype of the holier-than-thou, bible-bashing Christian.

    your trying to sound smart and philosophicle, but its just making you look like you have a lot of time to kill.

    Whether intending to or not, you're coming off as the stereotype mentioned above. The only thing you're accomplishing is to drive people away.

    so if you have any questions about christianity, ill be glad to answer them because i probably know the answer.

    Until you accept the fact that you have as much to learn from others, as you have to teach them, you can never truly learn or teach. Being able to recite doctrine isn't the same as being able to answer questions.

    we all have our views, and thats ok, but dont try and challenge other peoples views just for the pleasure of it, its not becoming of you.

    Nor is it becoming to tell them that they are too ignorant to understand your beliefs while assuming that you full understand how they came to theirs. They haven't had the same experiences as you, but you haven't had the same experiences as them. How can you justify telling someone that their experiences aren't valid because they are different from yours? Doing so isn't serving Christ; it's serving your own ego.

    I've had enough conversations with Cam to know that even if he doesn't know exactly why he believes what he believes, he holds to a lot of Christian principles as true. And I've had enough conversations with Holder to know that, while he does seem to enjoy bating Christians, if you are willing to explain why you believe the way that you do, he's willing to listen, try to understand, and respect your beliefs.

     
  8. Mordtat

    Mordtat Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 20, 2004
    *shrug*
    Whatever bud.
     
  9. Sol_Badguy

    Sol_Badguy Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 25, 2004
    thats cool
     
  10. Kaiser_Fisto

    Kaiser_Fisto Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2004
    Roger, keep believing in what you do. It will take you exactly where you mean to go.
    And for everyone else, rub a Buddha stomach and just be happy. ]-}
     
  11. Mordtat

    Mordtat Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 20, 2004
    I was always told you can tell a lot about a man by just watching them in action. In actions alone, the only person that I thought walked with God had to be my Grandfather. He was a great man and very important to the community of where we lived.

    He was a WWII veteran and when he came back home he married my Grandmother and began working for the US postal service. From there he became more involved with the church and was seen by all as a great spiritual leader and guidance for important church decisions.

    He was not a perfect man but he was modest about all the things he had done. His personal past time was playing solitaire in front of a hand held radio. He said he never cheated and that when we watched Wheel of Fortune he would say he told them the answers. When he died I had a hard time dealing with the loss of him.

    So I turned to video games as a way to take my mind off the pain. I even to this day will go to his grave and talk to him. Now that my Grandmother is dead, I can talk to both of them. Before my Grandfather died, he told my mom that he had no fear in dieing and that God was waiting for him.

    Either he was trying to comfort my mother or he really and truly believed that. Roscoe was a great person, and I pray that there is a life after death for I miss him and my Grandmother with all of my heart.

    With that said I think I have been chosen by God to suffer. Inside I have a moral code that I have never broken. It is hard for me to explain it to people like FT and others. You see, I have been raised my entire life on the ideals of a Christian home along with the ideals of fantasy with knights and chilvary. However, it is not that simple.

    I have always been outspoken and fun loving, sort of goofy with moments of brilliance. However, there are dark times in my life. I have also gotten a few things from my father.

    One is that of my anger and temper. For the most part of my life I have been able to use my anger as a driving force for sports and my art work. However, after high school and the mental torture by a previous loved one I have not had a good time in controlling it.

    The things I dream and long for would make many of you sick and utterly disgusted. I do not understand why I like to see people suffer. I feel as if I am a seesaw. A moment will happen and it will be a great moment in my life where I am helping a person or something good comes out of what I say. This is where I am amongst the clouds looking down from a top the seesaw and then the quick decent to Hell happens. These are the moments when I get angry and hate people. Where seeing another person hurt as much as I do, starts to take over. Then after that is the time of balance where either I sit back thinking of what has gone on either it good or bad. I am currently in that mind set. I am not really happy or upset. I feel stale and stagnate.

    If it was not for my family and what I have been taught I think I would have been a serial killer. If it was not for my love life with ones I cared deeply for, I would have been above the level in society as where I am now. I hate them so much for destroying me. I also hate the fact that my parents breed me to have this responsibility for others. There is nothing I can do that can keep me from wanting to see other people happy. I feel like a hypocrite, because I go through these times where I am happy and enjoy talking to new people and then at a moments notice I will want to hurt that person. An example, I am walking in the mall in Wilson. I see an old lady that?s in front of me heading out the side doors. So being a gentleman as I am I opened the door for her. Right after she thanked me and walk through I began to envision her face being forced through the glass. I wanted to murder her right there on the spot. I don't understand it and it hurts and I am tired of this conflict I have inside me.

    Do any of you have any suggestions on how I can be happy and not have to deal with these feelings anymore? I feel as if I can't fight these urges any longer. School has been so stressful
     
  12. Mordtat

    Mordtat Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 20, 2004
    Cameron's alignment is: Lawful Good


    With 14 points towards Lawful
    and 16 points towards Good


    Total Scores
    Good 34
    Evil 18
    Lawful 41
    Chaotic 27
    ----------------------------------
    Lod-reh has an aligment Quiz located on his D&D page.
     
  13. Lodreh

    Lodreh Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2002
    There are no words I can use to console or council you in this matter... What I can tell you from experience is things will improve... to quote a great movie, "It can't rain all the time."

    Lod-Reh SaJon ~
    "If you seek knowledge and understanding look to the Force.
    If you seek pain and suffering look no further than me."
     
  14. eddie-wan-kenobi

    eddie-wan-kenobi Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 14, 2003
    Have you thought of getting professional help Mordtat? Seriously. I'm not busting your chops or trying to be a smart ass. You and I are a lot more alike than I would have imagined. My thing was always my adopted Father. We NEVER got along and quite frankly I hated him for many years. We're much better now and I truly love the old terd for teaching me a lot of things that have helped me as a man. I, too, have a desire to help people. The little old lady thing is something I would do also. But, in the blink of an eye I can completely shut myself off from the world. Dont talk to me, dont even look at me. I like people and hate them at the same time. I sit here in this bookstore everyday and at times want to smash half of the folks head into our glass counter. I know this is not a healthy way to be. It almost cost me my wife, my kids, and my home. Luckily, I got help and am able to better control my anger and temper, though I still have lots of moments. Having kids have calmed me down. I dont know what the answer is for you Mordat. But good luck to you in finding it. You know, I'm in Wilson everyday. If you ever want to have lunch and talk, NEVER hesitate to call me.
     
  15. Entropy

    Entropy Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 30, 2002
    Well, you have two options as I see it. 1. Join the army and put those impulses to good use. 2. Get help. Medication can do wonders (I should know), but there are also other, less invasive, avenues available. I would suggest talking with a professional. Barton should have some kind of counseling service open to you. Of course, you can always talk to your friends, but a professional will be better able to help you identify the root of your issues as well as acceptable ways to deal with them.
     
  16. Mordtat

    Mordtat Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 20, 2004
    What if I said I knew who the root of the problem was and it would not be socially acceptable if I murdered her?
     
  17. Lodreh

    Lodreh Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2002
    The problem is letting go bro... her death would be meaningless. "The only power anyone has over you, is the power you give them." Get over it and move on... it happens to all of us and we all survive it.

    Lod-Reh SaJon ~
    "If you seek knowledge and understanding look to the Force.
    If you seek pain and suffering look no further than me."
     
  18. Entropy

    Entropy Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 30, 2002
    What if I said I knew who the root of the problem was and it would not be socially acceptable if I murdered her?

    Then I'ld say you're wrong about the root of your problem.
     
  19. Lodreh

    Lodreh Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2002
    The Alignment Quiz Mordtat spoke of can be found.... [link=http://www.mjyoung.net/dungeon/javalign.html]here[/link].

    I'll post my standard alignment if anyone is curious.

    Lod-Reh SaJon ~
    "If you seek knowledge and understanding look to the Force.
    If you seek pain and suffering look no further than me."
     
  20. Entropy

    Entropy Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 30, 2002
    Wow. I'm true neutral.
     
  21. Lodreh

    Lodreh Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Cool... any leanings at all?

    Lod-Reh SaJon ~
    "If you seek knowledge and understanding look to the Force.
    If you seek pain and suffering look no further than me."
     
  22. Kaiser_Fisto

    Kaiser_Fisto Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2004
    I'm Neutral Good-again.
     
  23. Entropy

    Entropy Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 30, 2002
    Nope true neutral. Of course I think I have leanings toward good and law.
     
  24. Lodreh

    Lodreh Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Very interesting... I was also True Neutral with 3 points to Evil and 6 to Chaos... but I think it was biased because I like Attila the Hun better than King Arthur.

    Lod-Reh SaJon ~
    "If you seek knowledge and understanding look to the Force.
    If you seek pain and suffering look no further than me."
     
  25. eddie-wan-kenobi

    eddie-wan-kenobi Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 14, 2003
    LOL! You would, Lodreh. [face_skull]
     
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