ST Prequel References in TLJ

Couldnt have said it better myself. Had these same feelings throughout this scene and always felt that way about the PT Jedi (I think it was Lucas's intent to show them in that vein, though the execution wasnt the best). Glad they showed Luke to be smart enough to realize the Jedi were losing their grip on things back then....

 

Rey: "You're going to pay for what you did!"
Anakin: "You're going to pay for all the Jedi you killed.."

MJ

 

I always thought that was a big lesson as well and also Rey saying to Luke that his mistake was assuming Kylo had no other choice. I felt the same way about Anakin. When Anakin goes to Mace and does the right thing (!), he tells him he’s discovered the Dark Lord and then Mace says that Anakin needs to stay put and “you will have earned my trust if what you say is true.” So much wrong here. WILL have?! My god man, he’s a Jedi! He’s one of you! Anakin should have had his trust being part of the Order for a decade. Anakin was rejected and made to feel like an outsider repeatedly. What if they actually showed some human emotion and embraced him, trusted him, from the start? Maybe then he would be honest about his troubles. Or if Mace actually practiced the pure justice that he preached and agreed to take Sidious in rather than execute him vigilante style. He put Anakin in an awkward position, all through arrogance basically.

 

LoT that would be a really great call back if the twin suns at the end of TLJ is in fact Luke / Rey or Leia...nice job picking up on that.

 

The Sidious name drop was minor but significant. Loved hearing his name.

 

Yeah. But how did Luke learn about Sidious! TFN, SW.com, or Wookiepedia? Or conversing with Yoda or Kenobi?

 

By reading one of my posts.

 

Wandering the Jedi Temple on Coruscant and seeing "Sidious wuz here" scratched on a column.

 

Joke.

 

Ok but wouldn't it just be a more elegant choice to have Luke say "the emperor" instead of all this alleged backstory and hoop-jumping to justify a theory on why he used the term Darth Sidious. Of course Ghost Yoda could have told Luke the Emperor's Sith name at some point between ROTJ and LTJ, but that's not really the point. Rey would have ZERO idea who Darth Sidious is. But surely she'd know there was an emperor of the EMPIRE that was evil and overthrown a few years before she was born. That's something people she comes in contact with would talk about. Galactic politics and who's in charge. Unkar talks to the First Order, so those traders on Jakku know about the First Order and the Empire. Rey knows about the Resistance, so she knows about the First Order and the Empire. She knows very little to nothing about the Force, Jedi and Sith.

It would be like if a boxing expert is talking to someone who knows very little about the sport and says "Cassius Clay became champ in 1964" and nothing else. Well, that novice would recognize the name Muhammad Ali because he's a cultural icon and he's the same person as Cassius Clay. So the more effective way of communicating would be to say "Muhammad Ali became champ in 1964" then maybe follow up with "He was known then as Cassius Clay."

If Luke is trying to connect dots for Rey, he's doing a poor job of it by just saying "Darth Sidious" and not saying that this dark force user was the dang Emperor BTW. Instead it comes off like Luke is talking to the moviegoing audience familiar with the prequels and not to Rey. IMO.

 

Nothing alleged about it. No hoop-jumping required.

The Emperor and Vader were Sith Lords. Darth Sidious and Darth Vader.

In the saga itself Sidious is named in TPM, AOTC, ROTS and now TLJ. Arguably he's better known as Sidious than the Emperor because he's not even in ANH and has one scene in TESB.

Again that is clearly NOT the case. She knows exactly who Darth Sidious was. There are all kinds of questions we can ask about what Rey knows and when she knew it. Clearly two days earlier she didn't know Luke was real either.

Exactly. She heard legends of the Jedi so it makes sense she heard the same of the Sith. In fact she clearly seems to know more about the Sith than the Jedi because somewhere she got Vader and Sidious' history.

Two things

1) The Emperor is best known as a Sith Lord from ROTS where he is revealed he was Supreme Chancellor Palpatine who was secretly Darth Sidious.

2) Again Rey clearly knows who he is talking about. This is like saying that Luke had no idea that Vader and the Emperor were Sith just because it wasn't said in the OT. Clearly Luke knew about the Sith but we never see him state that or get that knowledge in the movies themselves.

Do you think that Luke knew the Emperor's name was Palpatine? I would say that he did but the name Palpatine is never once used in the OT either. Did Luke not know that his father's name was Anakin? Yet it's only in ROTJ that Obi-Wan says the name to Luke. How come Luke wasn't surprised at his father's name being Anakin?

 

I don't understand your post. But the line pulled me out of the movie completely. Felt weird to me. And that's valid.

 

Of course it is. To me it'd be odd for Luke to say Emperor like he and the galaxy wouldn't know decades after the fact that he was Darth Sidious and that he and Vader were Sith Lords.

 

This is one of my favorite prequel references in the film. I caught it on first viewing and almost let out an audible "YES!!!!"

That scene in ROTS always hit a wrong nerve for me. For 19 years Anakin served the Jedi Order and none of it was worthy of any trust on their part?

 

I don't think those were real books in the Jedi Library. Looked like holograms on shelves.

 

As for the Darth Sidious name drop... You remember RJ saying something about Snoke revealing himself as Darth Plaguis, and who Rey would react. The same should have gone for this.

Rey: "Who?"

 

Except it wasn't played as a dramatic reveal. It's just his Sith name. You'd think that Rey has an idea of what Darth means.

 

You'd have to explain why.

As far as we know the only person who ever heard the name of Plagueis was Anakin. Plagueis never was Emperor. Luke might know of Plagueis if Anakin ever mentioned it to him but it might not have come up either.

The Emperor was Darth Sidious and his apprentice was Darth Vader. Everyone eventually knew that Vader was a Sith and later that he was Anakin Skywalker. It stands to reason that since Vader's Jedi identity was revealed to the galaxy then the Emperor (Palpatine's) was as well.

Luke and Leia also found out about Padme, Naboo et al. later on as well.

 

Luke name dropping Sidious if anything shows how much he has learnt about the Jedi order and their history.

I think if he called him the emperor it would almost feel like he learnt nothing about who the emperor was or his involvement with the Jedi order and just knew him by the basic title of emperor.

 

Personally, I loved the fact that Luke called the Emperor Darth Sidious. Mainly because Palpatine was always the fake persona and that Sidious was his true name. To me, it's what we should refer the Emperor as. Not as Emperor Sheev Palpatine but Darth Sidious.

 

Even Ren knows of the Sith. And Maz, though that was in TFA.

No, he doesn’t reply affirmatively to having read all of their contents is how I understand it. Otherwise, no reason for the pageturners quip.

And as these books are in the First Temple and pre-Order 66, wouldn’t they predate knowledge of the Jedi extermination? Who would have written it down? Kenobi? Why leave Tatooine even if he had knowledge of the whereabouts of the First Temple? Just hand his book to Luke. Yoda? Again, hand him the book on Dagobah.

Maybe Kenobi told him on the Falcon and/or Yoda on Tatooine. That’s diegetic speculation and a retrofit, but you can do that with Star Wars as with Owen in ANH fearing Luke being too much like Anakin and the premise of Rogue One demonstrate. Now, in Solo I wonder if they’ll borrow from the old EU on correcting the parsecs slip up in ANH.

 

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"I saw his future. As solid as I am seeing you"
"I saw my mother. I saw her as clearly as I see you now"



MJ

 

The answer no matter what is that Luke found out in Coruscant. There's no reason why his first or among his first trips after RotJ wouldn't be the Jedi Temple on Coruscant. From the end of AoTC on, "Darth Sidious" is a name that the Jedi were aware of. That's how the Jedi know in RotS (ala Dooku saying it to Obi-Wan in AotC). So with all their archiving and cataloguing, "Darth Sidious" is well within the records there.

Even if Luke actually found out from any Force Ghost, he would have for sure found out any way or even before just from the Coruscant Jedi Temple.

Even if we pretend that for whatever reason, Luke ignored Coruscant. There is both enough time transpiring between RotJ and TFA for Luke to have found out even if he wasn't trying to. The Leia book has enough already for just Vader being outed as her dad. That alone is enough for any curious individuals in the galaxy to pry or look further and publish whatever they could find out. "Sidious" would have naturally come out just from that.