Prevent An Empire From Arising...

This morning, I got a great idea. I've noticed a lot lately that many people have egos running amok with their opinions on where we should meet, t-shirt designs, etc. (Myself included) This is NOT a direct "Krash-bash," BUT, I think we should implement some sort of "checks and balances" system within the JKOC, because from my view point Krash has just gone and made several decisions without group consent (i.e. "I'm contacting tf.n and telling them we're meeting at South Park on the 29th at 4:30" when we were still kicking around ideas, "Let's do this t-shirt") Yes, I understand that some things need to be put into place in advance, such as meeting times and places, but that proposed WEEKEND is still 2 weeks away. And I also understand that cost is an issue with the shirts, but I mean, why not spend an extra dollar or two per person for something a little nicer (with regard to 2 screens)? I just was in American Politics class today and thinking about our group with "checks and balances," and I think it's a good idea so that the City Rep (whoever that may be, Krash or anyone else should he eventually leave, not that I want you to go Geoff ) does not get too much power and we have a Palpatine issue on our hands. I'm just saying I think it would be a good idea if we expand the Council a little (say 5 to 7 people EXCLUDING THE CITY REP so that it's still uneven) and go through a 2/3 vote or majority vote like the government does when certain issues are up for debate. I mean, Don wasn't even here when this was happening, and I don't want an Amidala on-leave situation to happen either. Sorry people, I really don't want to lead a Separatist movement, you can call me a political idealist, but I think it's a good idea that we make some change for the benefit of this fine organization.

 

Here's the thing. And I have experienced this with our group MANY MANY times. Everyone wants their voice to be heard, but only a select few do the work and get the job done.

I applaud Krash for taking on the responsibilites and making decisions. So far, no one has been hurt and everyone (for the most part) is happy. I don't think anyone else in this group could do better. Ok, enough of kissing Krash's arse.

 

Random, your opinion is being heard. Please keep in mind that it is sometimes hard to respond to everyone because of the way these boards work. With all of the things going on at once (movies, web sights, shirts), it is difficult to track all of the new messages. Let's all have a little patience, slow things down a little, and think of what is best for the group as a whole.

As for expanding the council, that would create more harm then good. We are barely a group of twenty. To have almost half of the group on the council would just create more head butting. We should expand the council as the group grows, but I don't think we should consider it until we at least double in size. If you expand the council too early, your going to get a case of to many chiefs and not enough indians. You are never going to make everyone happy no matter what you do. A small group is needed who can put their foot down and make a decision based on everyone's input that is the best choice for all.

 

The only thing that I generally have a problem with is speed and efficiency. I understand that the boards are not a "live" forum persay unlike the meetings I have to run for my fraternity. I also realize that all our voting members need to have a chance to get their voice heard.

A 21 day poll for "buy our domain: yes/no?" made me want to shoot myself, but I'm not used to taking a long time for votes and decisions. The "poll" that we did for the domain name choice was much more timely in my opinion and was fine.

We all have other stuff going on, we all have lives and those lives have problems. So whather or not the Force is in balance, we all need to find a little more balance ourselves to realize how far and in what capacity this group is going.

That said, I want to make sure everyone is well aware of what I personally am willing to bring to this group. I am a print designer (and not a horrible one IMHO), I am a web developer, I am a photographer and I am a Star Wars pimp. All of these services are at our disposal. I am also newer than some people and I consider myself a low man on the totem pole for any whole-group leadership responsibilities.

I hope that this doesn't sound pompous or arrogant. It was not meant to be that way at all. Other than that, have fun kids!

-b-

 

I'm going to alot of effort to keep my response as polite as possible...because you are REALLY PI$$ing ME OFF RIGHT NOW!

"Let's do this t-shirt" When did I(or the "Council") ever say we were going to go with one particular project. So far, we haven't made a decision yet. Cindy and Brian have looking into options, and posted specific prices and estimates. Not some "this guy I know says he can do it for us" vague explanation. Before we start spending money on this, I want to know what is the best choice we have. And having these done by the soccer game IS NOT a high priority for me (you've been pushing that); I'd rather have a quality shirt sometime in the next couple months...not weeks!

"we have a Palpatine issue" How dare you accuse me of that! Need I remind you, I (being the only position REQUIRED by Fanforce.net) started "the jedi council" because I know that I needed some help/advice on matters. And that there is a "checks and balance" system setup with Don and Darth-Zod. And at the meeting when I asked Don and Zod if they would accept a position, said "this was a difficult decision" and that, "everyone will still have a say in matters, but we need a chain of command."

There is still a popular vote on matters of Fanforce policy (we've have a couple in regards to the website) that Darth-Zod has been in-charge of. And Don and myself are coordinating with the Cleveland Force about the soccer team.

made several decisions without group consent (i.e. "I'm contacting tf.n and telling them we're meeting at South Park on the 29th at 4:30") Actually, that's part of my job...as City Rep. after reading a number of responses...including your own, I interpreted that that day/time would work best for the majority of the group. And I haven't posted the announcement...yet (I'm about to) If you can't make it, I'm sorry...but the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

"should he eventually leave, not that I want you to go Geoff" I've actually though about when/what to do about that. For now, my recommendation will be that when (not for a while) I stand down, the remaining members of "the council" (having proven their contribution to the Fanforce) be the ONLY ones up for election.

I won't deny that your comments have hurt me somewhat; but I've worked very hard getting this Fanforce up and running. And will not back down, simply because you disagree with my decisions.

 

Krash, let me clarify some things... this is what sucks about posting and not talking in person.

""we have a Palpatine issue" How dare you accuse me of that! Need I remind you, I (being the only position REQUIRED by Fanforce.net) started "the jedi council" because I know that I needed some help/advice on matters. And that there is a "checks and balance" system setup with Don and Darth-Zod. And at the meeting when I asked Don and Zod if they would accept a position, said "this was a difficult decision" and that, "everyone will still have a say in matters, but we need a chain of command.""

Krash, reread my previous post (if it says I edited it that was before you even read it cuz of typos and whatnot) I NEVER SAID we DO have a Palpatine issue on our hands. If you reread my post above, you would see that I'm saying I want to prevent that from ever happening BEFORE it happens. I'm not saying you're a bad CR by any means. All I'm saying is that I don't want you or ANY OTHER CR go get too controlling over our group.



"made several decisions without group consent (i.e. "I'm contacting tf.n and telling them we're meeting at South Park on the 29th at 4:30") Actually, that's part of my job...as City Rep. after reading a number of responses...including your own, I interpreted that that day/time would work best for the majority of the group. And I haven't posted the announcement...yet (I'm about to) If you can't make it, I'm sorry...but the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few."

In response to that, I would say that I'm not alone with other people still making suggestions. Why can't we wait until the 18/19th to make a decision? Possibly through a poll? I say 10 days is more than enough notice to coordinate when and where we will meet.

"I won't deny that your comments have hurt me somewhat; but I've worked very hard getting this Fanforce up and running. And will not back down, simply because you disagree with my decisions."

Once again, if you reread my post above, you will see that I did NOT mean to hurt your feelings Krash. I know that you've done a lot for this group and that it means a lot to you... and I appreciate that a lot. I think I have a good understanding of what the CR title entails, and I know it's a big responsibility and that there are certain duties, it just feels like some things are being rushed right now when they don't need to be.

Maybe I have a misconstrued view of things, but right now it feels like no one is taking my opinion into consideration and decisions are just being made. I consider us to be a happy and peaceful Republic right now... and I intend to keep it that way, BEFORE it turns into an Empire. Once again, sorry for any hurt I may have caused, I did not intend to hurt you, I just feel that some changes could be made.

MAY THE FORCE BE WITH US ALL!!!

 

First of all, he is not creating an empire. We are called Jedi Knights!!!!! He of all of stick to the name. Second we DO have check and balances, with the council. The council does what they need to do to keep this in order. Just because you are not a part of the council doesn't mean it doesn't work. THEN, with T-shirts, the basic style we agree with before is what should be done and colors and quotes are not that important plus like I said before quotes are COPYRIGHTED!!!!

 

For the Force's sake I gave the quotes thing up days ago!!! I never was adamant about it in the first place!!! Everybody stop bringing the quotes up!!! It's the Attack Of The Quotes!!! And once again, I was not at the meeting where everything was apparently decided and no one decided to post about it, hence me wondering how all this took place!!!

 

While you haven't directly accussed my of having "Palpatine Issues" I took your comments as implying that I do.

As for why don't we have a poll to determine when we have meetings. I have learned (with the help of other CRs) that polls are not as effective because of limited options(poll choices) and the inability to make slight adjustments to them (before or after football on Sunday).

Oh, and for the record...I'm learning all sorts of things about what being a good CR means. Believe me, you can't possible know everything...I'm still learning. Alot of it involves being a negotiator between different viewpoints (even if you disagree with them)

We are listening to you...but sometimes, I have to question/overrule you for the benefit of everyone. That does not mean you have to question my (or anyone else's) leadership.

 

Look. If Krash is willing to put in the effort to sustain and improve the Cleveland fan force, then why not give him the decision-making powers, especially in a group this small?

I agree that we may have to elect a council someday, but not until our fan force exceeds 50 active members, since it will then be easy to find a group of people who are willing to put in the effort and accept the responsibilities necessary to run a fan force.

 

Everyone take a breath, let it out as we find our focus. Concentrate.

Now, I'm going to do my best to not insult anyone's intelligence or feelings. Please forgive me if I fail. I hope to be a voice of reason.

That said, I know for a fact that Random was not trying to hurt anyone's feelings and was not trying to undermine the work that everyone in here has done. Unfortunately however, many people here have hectic schedules and we cannot meet in person as often as we would like. That leads to one major problem: lack of communication.

This is something that always happens in groups, no matter where they meet or what they talk about. The thing is, when all we have is written communication, we lose an absolutely priceless quality of verbal communication. That is inflection.

Reread some of Random's first post with an open mind, read it aloud, and try different inflections. We can see why so many people can get so many different meanings.

Now, reading it for the first time, and knowing Krash for as long as I have, I can see why he could be mad. However, from a certain point of view, Random raises some valid issues. I thought we could probably get the tshirts done the game and I was also aware of the design plans, so I started to push for it. That's my fault. No harm, no foul, I hope. While it was not the case that Krash or the council was pushing the tshirts to try and get them done, it is something we need to guard against if everyone is to have a say. While I don't think that some of Random's thoughts were necessarily worded in the best interest of the group or even in the least offensive manner, I don't think that is a reason to take nothing but negative from his post.

On the issue of communication. While the agendas have been posted most of the time for the meetings so those of us attending are prepared to discuss things, have minutes been posted at all? Please let me know. I do not remember seeing any since my involvement, but I may have overlooked them. If they have not been posted because we're concerned about our business being seen all over the boards, I can develop a minutes archive on the website. It's at least an idea, and it's among other things that I've been trying to collect and write down for the meeting.

In closing, it's obvious that not all of us are right, but we all need to figure out how to be less wrong. Communication is the key. Let's try not to take anything personally and try to make sure nothing we say here can be taken personally.

May the Force be with you. And have a lovely day here with the Jedi Knights of Cleveland.

I personally, at least, consider this conversation closed and will no longer pay much attention to it. PM me if anyone has problems with what I said.

-b-

 

I would like to thank B for being a voice of reason. He pinned it down exactly. After several PMs, I am now up to date with the way things were being handled, whereas before I posted this, I was out of the loop. So I just ASSUMED that people were making decisions out of nowhere. That being said, I would like to apologize for that assumption, as well as my language/word-choice. I am not the best speaker by any means, so if my word usage offended you, that was not intended; I was trying to get my message out as best as I could. (For some reason this is still difficult to do; no one knew what my t-shirt design was until the mods got posted, even after I had described it millions of times). And as Brian said, look at what I was TRYING to say... not HOW I said it.

"While the agendas have been posted most of the time for the meetings so those of us attending are prepared to discuss things, have minutes been posted at all? Please let me know. I do not remember seeing any since my involvement, but I may have overlooked them."

This was a huge part of the problem... I mentioned it before Brian did (if not on the boards, which I think I did, then in PMs to Krash and Zod), and that's why I proposed to the Council that we add a secretary to the Council, with an "honorary" secretary in the event of the secretary's absence, so that minutes could be recorded and posted for those who missed meetings so that everyone is on the same page. Plus, if those who were at meeting #2 recall, we had a million conversations going at once, and myself, PJD, and the TBX guys did not even know that Anrev's logo was being discussed from being in a seperate conversation. So even when we DO show up communication is still a problem. That's why I HIGHLY RECOMMEND we get a Secretary added to the Council. I've said my peace.