PT PT Forum - TFA: Discussing the FILM (characters, plotlines) - Spoilers Allowed

I'm not much of a Han/Leia fan in TESB, I'll admit. My mom, although she likes Harrison Ford, also said she found Han too "macho." I will say that, contrary to popular sentiment, I actually enjoy Han/Leia much, much more in ROTJ. He gets jealous on the bridge but I admire how he apologizes and comforts Leia and then later in the film, when he thinks she's in love with Luke, he's willing to step aside for her happiness. That's love right there.

TESB gets on my nerves a bit because Han just seems to be constantly...well...pestering Leia. And given that she's basically stuck with him on the Falcon, it annoys me. I also can't find Han's reply of "I know" to be a romantic answer to "I love you." I just don't.

Heh, that also reminds me of how my mother hates the Han freezing scene. She actually yelled "Shut up!" at the TV because Chewie wouldn't stop roaring.

Anakin and Padmé is a case where, I get why people don't like it, but I feel sometimes like their criticisms are a bit unfair because it seems like they're saying because they don't like Anakin, they don't see why Padmé would. And while I agree that there are warning signs with Anakin in AOTC (he's very intense, he's emotionally immature in a lot of ways), I also understand why Padmé, being who she is, overlooks them and why she falls in love with Anakin - both in spite of and because of these flaws. I think their relationship is very interesting and tragic but it definitely has unhealthy elements. Like, as George Lucas says, Anakin mixing up compassionate love with possessive love. But where the PT shines is that it acknowledges these elements in the narrative and weaves them into the story and the character arcs.

Just my two cents on that.

 

I'm less drunk now

I agree. Them in ROTJ was much more mature to me.

I also thought that AnikanxPadme was very subtle and interesting but sad and tragic. It was apparent that going down that road would lead her and him in ruin.

 

Man, I haven't looked at this thread since this morning. What...even happened in here while I was gone? I guess now I know how almost everyone else feels 99% of the time in here. Deeply confused.

I have to leave again, but speaking of being confused, and speaking of the prevalence of TFA-related "shippers", you guys reminded me: can someone explain to me what, if any, difference there is between whatever "shipping" is and just...people talking about fanfic they'd like to read? Is it basically just that the internet gave it an official name at some point in the last 10-15 years? Do people ship anyone or does it have to be a remotely plausible pairing? Help me understand; I'm unhip. Also, LOL for days that the top Urban Dictionary definition for "shipping" includes the bolded:

"A term used to describe fan fictions that take previously created characters and put them as a pair. It usually refers to romantic relationships, but it can refer platonic ones as well."

Platonic shipping? What...why? What is that? "I sure always wished Yoda and Qui-Gon had been dear, close, non-sexual friends." "OMG me too! Here's a drawing I made of them at a picnic."... "I hope Kylo and Hux really become good pals. But, y'know, not like that." "I wrote a story about it. They drink tea. The end."

...nevermind. I probably don't need to understand this. If someone tries to explain it to me there's a 100% chance someone will end up posting fanfic in here again and my brain is already broken today.

I leave the thread in your...capable(?) hands for now, friends.

 

AprilMayJune

People ship everything. Doesn't matter if they are fictional characters or not. Everything goes. Plausible, totally random, related to each other. Doesn't matter. People just ship away.

 

You know exactly what happens when you leave. I got drunk(still kinda) and started 3x posting and spouting conspiracies about Disney. If you leave, everything will derail again.

Everyone will ship anyone, anything or objects. You don't want to enter into that world.

 

Straight/slash/femslash/incest/never met/crossovers/threesomes/foursomes/harems
People will ship anyone.
People they never met, people they hate and so on and so forth.
Established characters with OC's, A real person getting sucked into the universe and dating someone in the story.
Friendship fics are great fun as well.
Anything that didn't happen in canon, can now happen.
There are plenty of fics where shipping doesn't happen though.

 

Hey now. Why would a man's hat have to be male?

Indeed, why would Quasi-non-governmental organisation Fett have to be male like Jango Fett? Someone on these forums once thought I wasn't. To be honest I felt somewhat honoured that this guy (who I got on well with) was open-minded enough to think I was female.

It's inevitable that the Shipyards Of Doom will launch warships that will tear chunks out of each other. Some fiction franchises have fanbases devoted almost solely to shipping, complete with fans pressing creators to get their favoured ships made canon and outright flaming creators for not making their favoured ships canon. Fortunately, Star Wars isn't one of those franchises. Right?

Right?



Behold the destruction of the Munificent-class frigate Luke-Leia after a critical strike to its main reactor by a Self-Propelled Heavy Artillery/Familial Relation (SPHA-FR) mounted in the ventral hangar of the Venator-class cruiser Han-Leia.



The Recusant-class destroyer Obidala is itself destroyed in a destructive collision with the Munificent-class frigate Anidala.





The fate of the Providence-class cruiser Reylo, perhaps: a drawn out burn as it drops out of orbit over the planet Canon after an exchange of fire with the Venator-class cruiser Finnrey? An unseen strike from another hangar-mounted SPHA-FR? Under the circumstances, even the revelation of a blood relationship between Rey and Kylo would be irrelevant. Strap yourselves in.

 

I sometimes wish tumblr had existed during the Prequel era. The shipping wars would have been out of control. And the suspicion that once upon a time there had been the possibility of a love triangle would have been enough to make tumblr implode

 

Man, wait till your 100% sober and then read your drunk posts.......


Drunk drive by posting I'm gonna call it.

 

Alas, Lucas cut this subplot out of ROTS. If it had remained...

 

Tumblr has already imploded a million times. Fandoms, ships, everyday it implodes itself...

 

[AMJ returns, reviews, digests]

...but, but...OK. OK. So it is basically just shorthand for "talking about hookups you want to see in fanfic", mostly. I think. Yes? I feel...old. I think I'll just continue to rely on Evening Star to waste time looking up gifs with me when I feel like fangirling.

QuangoFett I may now be officially more confused than when I asked, but that post was well-constructed and hilarious -- so bravo, friend, hahaha.

Yes, if there's one thing I'm known for around here, it's my uncanny ability to keep a thread on track. Dude, you really must have been drunk when you typed this.

I am far from technically challenged (like, I literally work with technology for a living and I have a college degree in a tech-related field -- and I like to tell myself, at least, that I am not actually old for real despite what Deliveranze has been telling everyone,) and tumblr is still somehow beyond me. Like, tumblr makes me feel about 7,000,000 years old. I go there, I'm like "...what even is this," and then I leave.

I was surprised to learn years later to what extent this was an actual subplot as opposed to just the "very indirectly possibly kinda sorta maybe briefly hinted at" version that's in the actual film. I think people would have been kind of freaked out about that, even just as a love triangle imagined by Anakin and/or "purposely fabricated by Ultimate Evil in service of his ridiculously circuitous plan". Might have been interesting.

 

In the final cut, it's notable that in spite of the bitterness and hatred, Anakin never accuses Obi-Wan of cuckolding him with Padme. Nah, he just accuses Obi-Wan of turning her against him. Which is admittedly a step below turning her against him and sleeping with her, and potentially getting her pregnant even.

He still has a view of Obi-Wan as a chaste, non-sexual being whose dispute with him is purely ideological. His reaction to Obi-Wan getting embarrassed over Satine in TCW seems almost bemusement at the very idea of Obi-Wan in a relationship. Even in the eyes of his ultimate personal nemesis, Obi-Wan remains honourable. Everyone respects Obi-Wan. Even Grievous gives him something resembling a fair fight.

 

AprilMayJune

I think we may be around the same age (late 20s to early 30s) and tumblr is quite easy to navigate once you know your way around. When I was in grad school in 2010 I interned at a place that was all like "we need to get onto this social media thing. You there! You look somewhat young - you make that happen!" And that was my introduction to tumblr.

 

Yes, we are indeed the same age (I am 31.) It just amuses me, I mean, I have to believe it's not beyond me if I'd put the time into it (or at least I'd sure hope not!) I guess it's more that I get there, then I'm like "What am I even looking at," and then I flee before learning more.

Very well said. I tend to think the version we ultimately ended up getting is far better than if Lucas had leaned full-on into the love triangle thing basically for exactly the reasons you state. I had never even thought about it before someone else mentioned it here in an earlier thread, but I suppose it would have raised all kinds of weird things for the OT's story, as in, for example, would Vader even be sure Luke was his actual kid?

RE: TCW/Satine/Anakin's reaction, because I can never pass up a chance to laugh at the awkwardness in TCW. Anakin's whole "Wait, YOU? Like...like-liked a girl? Get outta here omg tell me everything! How come you didn't just blow it all off and marry her? Was it the whole Jedi thing? I mean, yeah, of course. That's...cool. I get it. Totally what I would have done too" attitude at one point in that arc kills me dead every time. God, those two...really missed some chances to fully communicate there, haha.

 

As far as the subplot in ROTS is concerned, I'm glad that never made it into the movie. I've always held Obi-Wan in very high regard, and as Quango said, even his enemies see him as honorable and loyal.

Anyway, as far as the term "shipping" is concerned- I may be a bit innocent, but from my understanding it's simply a group of folks that like a particular couple or want to see a couple come to life in the show/movie. They often invent nicknames for the couple, be it Brangelina, Anime, Haian,Obitine, Luxsoka, Kanera, etc, etc,etc. Of course, people take this "shipping" thing to the extreme, and then you have all of these weird fan fictions that I have never read nor I have any intention to circulating online.

Ignorance truly is bliss sometimes!!

 

Vader also still speaks somewhat highly of Obi-Wan in ANH and even later in the OT. He doesn't come across as a guy bitter that his wife cheated on him with his friend/mentor. His dispute with Obi-Wan seems driven by something more than an edgy adultery plot twist. At least that's how you could interpret his lines in light of their bromance in the PT up to the third act of ROTS. An adultery plot twist would overshadow everything that follows chronologically between them.

"Obi-Wan is here. The Force is with him [and so he is still an incredible warrior, who sliced off my limbs with so much finesse]."

"When I left you, I was but the learner. Now I am the master [like you were, you badass Obi-Wan]."

"He's just a boy. Obi-Wan can no longer help him [Luke should be truly grateful that he was his apprentice]."

"Obi-Wan once thought as you do [because he and I both tried to give peace a chance on that Mustafar landing platform, but we were bound by irreconcilable disputes and our obligations to our respective Orders to do battle and I indulged my hatred of him; after I killed him (I think) I felt unfulfilled by the experience; maybe I regret killing him a bit.]"

 

I'm also a lady who is much older than Deliveranze (and possibly everyone else but I hope not!). I also have been shipping since the 90s, albeit sans fanfic. Probably the 80s if you count books. You don't have to fanfic to ship, although a lot of shippers do. I define shipping as being inordinately emotionally involved in the relationship between fictional characters.

I have no idea why I do this, or why I derive massive amounts of entertainment from becoming obsessive about character relationships, but I have been doing this since Todd and Liz had unrealized tension in Sweet Valley High, and it's been that way ever since. Do the ships have to be great? No (I mean, please see Sweet Valley High which is a terrible series with terrible values that no young girl should read). They just have to be compelling to me or hit me the right way and then I'm hooked.

Branches of shipping can be entertaining, like all the Clark/Lex hoyay stuff in Smallville or the Buffy and Angel/Spike stuff in the early '00s.

For me, a massive part of the prequels being great to me has to do with the fact that I am a reluctant Padme/Anakin shipper, which I've come to almost against my will, but I just love those two crazy kids together, and find myself defending them to the death.

I'm too old for tumblr but it reminds me of LiveJournal back in the day and I did love LJ for its massive education on menstral cups and it's takedown of the Harry Potter fanfic community. The Reylos scare me though. I mean, I get that they probably like dark ships and I get that, but I have a feeling they have a tougher road to hoe than even the Anames.

 

I used to follow tumblr when Les Miserables came out in 2012 (I love that musical!) and although I never actively participated in any of the ships, I enjoyed the fan art and the fanfics. The fandom was really great and so many young people were introduced to Hugo's masterpiece.

I thought I'd ship Kylo and Rey, but things got a bit weird in that thread and I still think they are siblings so no shipping for me until we know the truth. I'll just continue fangirling over here. Bear with me.

 

Agreed. I think it helps the OT and makes the story far more interesting and complex if it's not just "I hate that guy and I think he slept with my wife." And I am repeating myself here yet again on yet another topic, but I absolutely get a huge kick out of how hung up on Obi-Wan Vader still is in the damn OT. Obi-wan trained you well, Obi-Wan's here, I sensed Obi-Wan, blahblahblah. The guy is dead for 2/3 of the trilogy and Vader is still bringing him up all the time. Vader, honey, no one's blaming you, because God knows we all love Obi-Wan, but you are coming off a wee bit desperate. Guys don't like that. They get freaked out and then they do stuff like assimilate into the Force to get away from you.

Edit: The shipping "names" are killing me in here. I never really got into fanfic all that much, but even in my fangirliest peak I don't recall there being so many portmanteaus for different pairings. It's amusing.

 

31 isn't old AprilMayJune. When I say old, I just meant older than TPM. Which to ME is OLD.




You're still one of my top 5 favorite posters.

 

Here here brotha. She is the true balance of the forums.

 

Fo sho she is, Underground Hipster Qui-Gon. Perfect time for me to say....your avi is AMAZING. Please don't change it anytime soon.

 

Yeah, I can see that the material for the Anakin/Obi-Wan slashers has been there since 1977, only bolstered in 1980, 1983, 2002, 2005 and almost every week between August 2008 and whenever the last uncompleted TCW arc was released.

Even without that interpretation, there has always been something honourable - akin to the knights and samurai of yesteryear - about their relationship. From master/apprentice to general/general to enemy/enemy, their relationship has always been bound by the structures of society. In spite of that, there's an extremely personal thread running through it from Obi-Wan's cold dismissal of Anakin in TPM to their final reunion as ghosts at the end of ROTJ. Vader hates Obi-Wan as much as Anakin loved him, as I saw something in the Expanded Universe (probably the ROTS novelisation) put it.

Regarding Rey and Kylo (bringing this back to TFA), I can see the shippers' point about Kylo having a certain, possibly sexual desire for Rey to be at his side. At the same time, it's clearly the most one-sided and extremely dysfunctional potential romantic relationship in SW. Sorry, shippers, but I really don't see Rey as having any regard for Kylo as more than the mind-raping, paralysis-inducing insecure patricidal creep she knows him as. Like much about Kylo, maybe this dysfunctionality - almost a dark twist on the traditional Disney heroine/prince story - is what appeals to people.

 

Some, well a lot from the looks of it, like to woobiefy pasty villains with unusual facial features and questionable haircuts. The more pasty and unusual the better. And then of course ship them with the heroine/hero in question.