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CT Question about Darth Vader's telekinesis in TESB

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by SateleNovelist11, Apr 15, 2023.

  1. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2015
    While I find it cool that Vader utilizes telekinesis in TESB without gestures all but one time, I wonder why that performance choice was made. Does anyone know if the great director of TESB, Irvin Kershner, told David Prowse and I presume Bob Anderson, as the latter performed Vader during his duel with Luke, to portray Vader as employing the Force without gestures? It wouldn't surprise me if Kershner did. He wanted to Vader to be as menacing and powerful as possible in this film.



    Now, this video is 20 minutes, but the TESB parts are in the second half. While Vader's fight/power usage scenes in Obi-Wan Kenobi and Rogue One are included, for whatever reason, those in Rebels are not. I presume this was done due the fact that those scenes are animated, but I'm unsure.

    Of course, even when Vader is using gestures to employ his telekinetic Force abilities, he is powerful enough to bring down a ship. So, yeah. Obviously, he's on the same level as Ahsoka and Maul.
     
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  2. Wookie Cookie

    Wookie Cookie Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Dec 16, 2022
    I think we see him use his hands sometimes so that the audience is aware what is happening. Especially during scenes where there is a choke hold. If Vader isn't moving his hand into a choke hold it is possible the audience might get confused what is happening, also it just looks cooler. Sometimes when Vader uses the force, like when his lightsaber is pointed downward and he hails a bunch of **** at Luke, it makes him look powerful and all the stuff he is doing looks effortless.
     
  3. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    It's unclear what direction Kershner gave Prowse for choking Ozzel. I have always assumed that Vader was gesturing, but it was out of frame. As to the duel, Lucas was still of the mind that Lightsabers were heavy when in use. Thus Vader doesn't do what is done in later films.

    [​IMG]

    And yes, in new ventures with Vader, those actions are consistent. Lucas compared him to Dooku and Maul.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2023
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  4. DARTHLINK

    DARTHLINK Force Ghost star 4

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    Feb 24, 2005
    Simple, he was using the Force. He's just that good that he doesn't need to add in the hand gesture.
     
  5. Olag_Greck

    Olag_Greck Jedi Padawan

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2022
    I agree. I've always felt that the intent was that hand gestures were not necessary to utilize the force. It was a matter of how talented you were with the force.
     
  6. Kato Sai

    Kato Sai Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2014
    You can hear the Force quaking when he chokes the foolhardy officer through the screen, but Captain Needak you see just choking and there is no need to make a gesture or sound, because of what we saw in ANH at the Imperial Board Meeting.

    As for when Vader throws piping and objects at Luke, he used no gestures at first, but then he does point his lightsaber down, which is a gesture:

    [​IMG]

    So it seems its arbitary. Or perhaps sometimes Vader purposely doesn’t do a gesture, so the opponet has no idea he is gonna use the Force, which is brilliant. If I always stick put my hand, you’ll be on guard.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2023
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  7. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Force Ghost star 6

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    Jan 10, 2015
    The only time we see Vader utilizing any gestures while deploying telekinesis in this particular film is when he points and says, "All too easy." And that makes sense because it's more dramatic and he's been engaged in combat. Plus, it also helps that he's still pointing when Luke swiftly leaps out of the carbon reactor or whatever it's called. Lastly, Lucas had actually changed his mind about lightsabers prior to the production of this film. He had the notion of them being heavy for ANH, but changed his opinion prior to TESB. After all, Vader and Luke do use their lightsabers very quickly. A good example is when Luke ducks as Vader quickly swings his lightsaber and damages the pipe in the carbon freezing chamber.

    I like the idea of Vader not having to use any gestures during his deployment of telekinesis. It shows that he's powerful and just makes him seem more dangerous.
     
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  8. Sarge

    Sarge Chosen One star 10

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    Oct 4, 1998
    The first time I saw RotJ, I was impressed by how easily the Emperor released Luke's binders with just a casual twitch of a finger. He clearly had power and skill to waste if he could do that with no apparent concentration or effort.
     
  9. Grizzlor

    Grizzlor Jedi Master star 1

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    Mar 14, 2015
    Palpatine closed his eyes and was able to use ESP on Luke. Vader's face is hidden.
     
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  10. DARTH_BELO

    DARTH_BELO Force Ghost star 5

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    Nov 25, 2003
    I felt the same. If one is powerful enough, they can use the Force to move/do things without hand gestures-which can also explain why Obi-Wan doesn't always use his hand for everything he says when using the mind trick.

    Honestly, the concept is perfectly understandable-in the Harry Potter universe it's the same; wizards and witches can cast spells without speaking it if they are powerful/skilled enough.



    the whole ESP communication thing seems to be a common ability used by force users in the GFFA. Seemingly mostly by Sith-or those using the Darkside. Throughout just the films, we see Palpatine use it on Anakin, Vader use it on Luke, Palpatine use it on Ben Solo, (I have been every voice you've ever heard in your head). It could even be argued that Snoke did it to Kylo Ren too, considering how he talks about seeing his mind, etc.

    Although not a darkside user, Obi-Wan did it with both Luke and Yoda - with Luke also able to hear. As I recall, in Rebels, Yoda also did it with Ezra IIRC.

    I don't remember any others.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2023
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  11. DARTH_BELO

    DARTH_BELO Force Ghost star 5

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    Nov 25, 2003
    DP
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2023
  12. Sarge

    Sarge Chosen One star 10

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    Oct 4, 1998
    And Luke was able to call to Leia while he was hanging underneath Cloud City.
     
  13. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Force Ghost star 6

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    Jan 10, 2015
    I think Sidious had to put a bit more effort into probing Luke's mind because the latter was resisting him. The ROTJ novelization details how he ripped information from Luke's mind, such as the death of Yoda, from which Sidious derived much sadistic pleasure. The novelization shows that Luke is more powerful than he lets on in the movie. While Sidious is not the Eldritch abomination in human from that he is in Dark Empire, his power creep between ROTS and ROTJ was very substantial. That's why Luke had a great deal of difficulty dealing with his temptations in general, and Vader feared him too much to challenge him without Luke's help. Overall, Vader is more confident in TESB, whereas ROTJ focuses on his inner conflict. I believe that's why Vader was portrayed as rarely using gestures to deploy his telekinetic attacks. He's confident and domineering, whereas ROTJ focuses on the nuances of his character. I'm pretty sure that Vader only uses a telekinetic gesture once in TESB. Ya know, when she says, "All too easy." Palpatine is playing the weak old man in ROTJ, which is why he uses a cane despite not needing it. He's very supernaturally powerful, and he nearly killed Luke and his Sith lightning effectively killed Vader in spite of the fact that Vader was able to use his strength and the light side of the Force to defeat him.
     
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  14. Darkside Floyd

    Darkside Floyd Jedi Master star 2

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    Sep 3, 2008
    There may also be an intimidation factor at play here.

    It's one thing for Vader to silently stand there motionless while Force choking someone, it's something else if his victim sees Vader actively using a hand gesture while Force choking them ala I'm doing this to you and there's nothing you can do to stop me.

    Seems more menacing that way.
     
  15. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Force Ghost star 6

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    Jan 10, 2015
    I can see what you mean by this. But there's an argument to be made that Vader Force-choking someone without any gestures is more intimidating. It could be seen as a means of showing contempt for his targets. After all, Vader does not use any gestures when he Force-chokes Ozzel and Needa in TESB. Obviously due to the mask, I'm not even sure if he's looking at Ozzel as he kills him, since he's addressing Piett. I mean, think about how Heath Ledger's Joker never looks at anyone he kills in 2008's The Dark Knight. It makes him more disturbing. I could see a similar argument working for Vader.
     
  16. moreorless12

    moreorless12 Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 4, 2016
    As with Ledgers joker really I think the killing becomes about the effect it has on someone else, he doesn't care about Ozzel at all, he cares about making it clear to Piett what the price of failure is.

    I do think the non movement against Luke it very effective at showing the difference between them, the fight goes from something which looks somewhat competitive to one were we realise Vader is far above Luke.
     
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  17. ThereseAn'ya1994

    ThereseAn'ya1994 Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Oct 9, 2023
    It makes Vader very intimidating in this movie, so this way of presenting him is very effective. In addition there's the bonus that it makes one wonder, "If Vader is this powerful and he needs Luke's help to overthrow the Emperor, then how powerful and dangerous is the Emperor?" Talk about a scary prospect.
     
  18. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Force Ghost star 6

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    Jan 10, 2015
    I actually had a dream about Darth Vader last night. I dreamt that I was looking downward at a crowd, and the people were parting as Lord Vader walked quickly to the south. A police officer tried to attack him from behind, but Vader pushed him backward telekinetically without looking or gesturing, and he slammed against four people. I was stunned when I woke up.
     
  19. christophero30

    christophero30 Chosen One star 10

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    May 18, 2017
    I've never dreamed of Vader. You dreams are better than mine.
     
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  20. Jar-Jar Binks

    Jar-Jar Binks SWC Late Show With JJB Host star 8 VIP - Game Host

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    Nov 17, 2016
    I dream about vader all the time. they are blanket hogs.
     
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  21. Sarge

    Sarge Chosen One star 10

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    Oct 4, 1998
    I still remember one dream about Vader, must be 40+ years ago.
     
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  22. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Force Ghost star 6

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    Jan 10, 2015
    It was unusual because I ordinarily dream about family and friends. I don't often dream about fictional characters. The last time that Vader appeared in a dream was in January 2017. I simply dreamt that he was striding swiftly down a white hallway, and afterward, I assumed it was a spaceship. But I did have a dream about Scar back in late October. I dreamt that these lions told Scar, "We recognize no king. Neither you nor Simba. We are anarchist lions!"

    I'm surprised nobody has quoted Anakin by saying, "I'd much rather dream about Padme." Of course, it would be a nightmare if someone dreamed about Vader Force-choking Lando upon the former's arrival in Cloud City. But it would be something to see.
     
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  23. Happy Sando

    Happy Sando Jedi Master star 4

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    Jun 23, 2023
    Never had a dream about Vader. Anakin, sure, but not Vader.
     
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  24. Django Fett

    Django Fett Force Ghost star 5

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    Nov 7, 2012
    If you haven't had a nightmare of being chased by Vader you're not a true Star Wars fan :p
     
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  25. jedi_master_ousley

    jedi_master_ousley Force Ghost star 8

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    Jun 14, 2002
    That was where my mind was going when pondering this question as well. Vader has reached a level of power and control that he no longer needs additional gestures to focus the Force. Doing so just adds the intimidation factor.

    (And from an audience perspective it helps viewers understand what is happening better via a visual cue).
     
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