Questions about Sith Lord Names

While I read the Zahn books when they came out, I have had little experience with the EU. After playing Knights of the Old Republic, I learned that the the names and events mentioned in it were established in the comics. After learning more about the EU I have the following question concerning Sith names:

Was Darth Bane supposed to be the first Sith Lord to use "Darth" in a name? If so, why did Darth Revan, Darth Malak, and Darth Bandon (and possibly any other Sith Lords in the upcoming sequel to KOTOR) use it? Was Darth Bane's original name Bane? or was this a new name? I found it strange that the Sith Lords in KOTOR just added "Darth" to thier existing name, because in the films they have completely new names.

Anyway, forgive me if this has already been asked. I would apprecaite any answers or ideas.

Thanks!

 

EU is a shared universe. Aspects change and metamorph as more material is added.

You could say in hindsight that Bane was just following in the tradition of past Sith Lords millenia back.

Actually, it says he instituted the title for all forthcoming Dark Lords . . . but that doesn't mean past DLs hadn't used it.

Does it actually say anywhere he was the first? I don't think so. And if that's the case, Revan certainly wasn't the first to employ the Darth title. Someone had to have done it before him, for him to get the idea from!

 

Thanks for the reply! I never read anywhere that Bane was the first, I'm just going on what I've read here and on some websites. Your comment about him setting up the system for Sith to follow certainly clears things up. It would be interesting to see if the origin of "Darth" ever gets explained.

One more clairification, was Darth Bane's original name Bane, or something else? Just wondering if he instituted making a completely new name, or was Sideous the first?

 

I doubt it. Sith give up their birth names upon training. I'd say Jedi do to. There's a lot of Jedi type names out there, like Qui-Gon and all those types of hyphenations.

 

But in KOTOR, Malak and Revan don't change thier names, they just add the Darth title. Or have I just made an assumption?

 

Well Exar Kun never gave up his birth name, neither did Freedon Nadd, neither did half a dozen Sith in the TOTJ series.

It would seem that Malak and Revan didn't change their names either, as various characters call them that when speaking of them in the past tense before they became sith.

Though the one of the ones involved with the creation of the game did say that Malak, Revan and Bandon had symbolic names in an interview (though he/she wasn't clear on what the symbolism was for every "Darth" sith in the game however, specifically Revan).

Mal is bad.

Revan is either alternate spelling of Riven (to wrench, tear, split asunder), or its current spelling it could be masculine name which means "Devotee of Shiva" (Shiva being the "The Destroyer"), or it could symbolically refer to both, as destroying, and splitting/tearing/wrenching are quite similar.

Bandon comes from "Abandon".

Which makes one wonder why in the world would they have those names before they become sith? Isn't kind of negatively prophesying what they'd become, before they do?

As for Bane, I do seem to recall an early source saying that Bane was his real name. However, I can't remember which one it was, and all later sources seem to avoid discussing that topic specifically.

 

some seem to just add Darth to their original name (Darth Revan, Darth Malak, and presumabley Darth Bandon), some are born into the Sith Order and are born with the name (Darth Maul) while some change their name altogethor (Darth Vader, Darth Tyranus), then there are a few we don't know the case (Darth Sidious, Darth Bane, Darth Anneddu, Darth Ni)

as for who started it... originally it seemed Darth Bane appeared to be the one to start it, although a Darth Rivan existed in RPG material before Bane's time so it was obviously around, then KOTOR came out and Revan and Malak used it and it will be used in KOTOR2 as well so it would appear now that Revan started Darth and then Bane picked it up again... and a few anomalies in between (Rivan) used it also

with the upcoming Sith era novel series I won't be surprised if they start adapting it to that all the Dark Lords of the Sith after Revan used Darth.... (only the Dark Lord and Dark Lord's apprentice, all the others in KOTOR didn't use Darth) it may turn out that they make Lord Kaan, Darth Kaan, just like Darth Vader is often Lord Vader.
I think that would be good... even though the original material stated Darth Bane hadn't even completed his training by Ruusaan other later sources state a different backstory where he was the Dark Lord before Kaan who overthrew him by poisoning but it didn't work....

 

Interesting. I always thought Malak was derived from mal, and in turn wondered why the character would have such a name before becoming a Sith.

While Bane may or may not have been Darth Bane's previous name, what other cases, besided those in the films, are there of changed names for Sith Lords?

 

Shira Brie became Lumiya, Dark Lady of the Sith

 

Shira Brie became Lumiya, Dark Lady of the Sith

Where did she fit into the timeline? Was she the Sith that had a lightsaber whip?

 

yes she had the lightwhip... althoguh not the only Sith to have used one

She was Darth Vader's apprentice, he presented her as a Hand to the Emperor and sectretly trained her as a Sith just incase Luke wouldn't turn so he would have her when he finally decided to kill Palpatine

 

"Darth Rivan existed in RPG material before Bane's time"

Darth Rivan coexisted and was a rival of Darth Bane, died at the battle of Ruusan.

"even though the original material stated Darth Bane hadn't even completed his training by Ruusaan other later sources state a different backstory where he was the Dark Lord before Kaan who overthrew him by poisoning but it didn't work...."

All "Domestic US" canon sources, including short stories state that Bane never completed his training, even recent refrences in Insider and other places(so it is still US domestic canon view of continuity).

Another source, Darkness Shared states that 6 months before the battle of Ruusan, Lord Kaan was one and only "the Dark Lord of the Sith".

Recently "Bane of the Sith" was "reprinted"(loose sense of the term) on Hyperspace, it kept the original domestic US continuity information instead of being updated (they updated Mist encounter to fit with current official domestic continuity). It still says that Bane never completed his training. So it still must be the official Domestic US canon view of Bane's history.

 

Bane Was the first Sith to use Darth in the beginning of his title, In fact I think maybe that I might of heard somewhere that Darth Bane was actually his name meaning Darth was his first name, I know that the Siths after him used Darth In honor of him I read that several places (none at the top of my head). I think they just made up People to fit in the spots in the games like KotOR and so fourth.

 

Bane was not the first to use Darth as his title.

Darth Revan, Darth Malak, and Darth Bandon predated Darth Bane by about 3000 years.

Darth Rivan (who may have been a few hundred, to a thousand years old) coexisted at the same time as Darth Bane and died on ruusan.

Those characters are Canon.

Darth Malak

 

they updated Mist encounter to fit with current official domestic continuity

What did they change in the hyperspace version? (I can't get access to Hyperspace).

I guess they changed the "barely a week earlier"-part? Or something different?


Kam

 

Barely a week earlier is not an error, it never was.

The full line was(and I paraphrase), Barely a week earlier the message finally reached the outer rim. Its been stated for a very long time that news takes a long time to reach the outer rim especially with HNN restricted.

So no the editing was not that part, the particular edited part that I know of, was changing "president" into Chancellor.

 

There is no mention of Darth Malak In anything other than the Game KotOR. Just like Desann, Tavion and Jerec were made up for the games so was Malak I know It is said somewhere that Darth Bane was the first be called Darth.

 

Incorrect Darth Malak has been refrenced by wizards of the coast source material, as well as starwars.com.

You might not like it(and you are in an minority) but according to LFL policies, they view games as C level Canon.

Jan 21, 2004+

Are the entries in the Holocron sorted as cannonical & non-cannonical? Are there various degress of oficialness?

The database does indeed have a canon field. Anything in the films and from George Lucas (including unpublished internal notes that we might receive from him or from the film production department) is considered "G" canon. Next we have what we call continuity "C" canon which is pretty much everything else. There is secondary "S" continuity canon which we use for some older published materials and things that may or may not fit just right. But, if it is referenced in something else it becomes "C". Similarly, any "C" canon item that makes it into the films can become "G" canon. Lastly there is non-continuity "N" which we rarely use except in the case of a blatant contradiction or for things that have been cut.

I will not go into specifics as to what is considered "S" canon or what items that are seemingly "C" canon are actually "G" canon.

...continuity "C" canon which is pretty much everything else. " By everything else I mean EVERYthing else. Novels, comics, junior novels, videogames, trading card games, roleplaying games, toys, websites, television, etc. As I've mentioned earlier, any contradictions that arise are dealt on a case-by-case.

This has been our general approach to continuity since we began using the Holocron database to track it.

In a nutshell, anything created by the author would be C-level. Anything in the the novels created by George Lucas (whether it comes from unpublished early script versions, unpublished author interviews with George, or George's revisions to the novelization manuscript) would be G-level unless contradicted by the films.

It gets a little more complicated when something is seen on-screen but not named. So the "shuura fruit" mentioned in the AOTC novel would be G because you see it in the film, although the author came up with the name.

-Leland Chee, Keeper of the Holocron

"I know It is said somewhere that Darth Bane was the first be called Darth."

Only fan speculation as far as I know. Unless you care to post proof?

 

Val,

I'm curious. If G.L. makes reference to something in an interview..say he uses the word Twi'lek(which I saw in an interview somewhere..)..does that race name then become G-Level canon? Basically, if he says something in an interview, is it G-Level canon?

 

Ask the VIPs at starwars.com to know for sure.

But apparently interviews, and behind the scenes notes are "G-canon" unless the movies themselves establish otherwise.

 

When I said Sith give up their names, I was alluding to the present day fellas, like Maul, Vader, Tyrannus, Sidious.

As for Malak and Revan, we only know their, what, first or last name?

 

With names like those, I'd guess they might be first names. I could be wrong, but could you imagine Revan before he became Sith saying something like "Hi, I'm John Revan. And you are?"

 

Perhaps Darth Bane was the first to change his name. Bane sounds like a sith name, not a Jedi name. Revan, Malak, and Bandon are sufficiently vague in their symbolism that its okay for them to be their "good guy" names. By that I mean that those names are not words signifying bad things in the English language. Bane, Sidious, Tyrannus, and the like are all obviously "bad names" without having to dig on the root words or pull out translations from other languages.

So, Bane picks up the Darth title, which has been unused for quite some time at that point, changes his name from Ki-gai Foo to Bane and all the Sith after him follow his lead.

 

There have been several Banes in star wars universe.

Bane Nothos, Bane Malar, Bane Werth, so it could have been Bane's original name.

I have to point out that Bandon is no different than Sidious, in that its pulled out of a root word.

Sidious isn't a word, insidious is.

Unlike sidious, bandon is actually a word in some dictionaries;

bandon

\Ban"don\, n. [OF. bandon. See Abandon.] Disposal; control; license. [Obs.] --Rom. of R.
Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.

As you can see bandon also has a negative meaning in the english language, nothing vague about it.

Tyrannus is a foreign word in Latin, I think, for Tyranny. Though it may have been incorporated into the english Language.

 

This is all very interesting. I consider Darth Revan and others to be canon, but i was wondering, have any Sith Lords before Sidious, definatively changed thier names? Have any Sith before him had two names? Is having a secret identitiy a new thing up to Darth Vader?