Qui-Gon Jinn's huge mistake with Anakin

I hold Jinn responsible for how Anakin turned out. He took Anakin with him to be trained, and he did not wait for the right time. Obi-Wan and Yoda waited for the Force to "say" it was the right time to train Luke. But Jinn ignored that, and therefore, Anakin did not learn to let go of his connections. Which resulted in him becoming a monster.

Thoughts?

 

I agree with you. If QG hadn't pressured the training of Anakin so much and let him grow up first, things might have turned out alot better. Taking Ani away from his mom like that was a BIG mistake. Not to mention the fact that Anakin felt like he couldn't trust his Jedi family 100% either.

 

I don't know if I completely agree with you on the Jedi thing...do you mean to say that Anakin couldn't trust the Jedi because he loved his mother and Padme? Sorry, catch me up here.

 

I agree. If Qui-Gon would've just left well enough alone, I think the Sith could've been defeated.

 

I just meant that if Anakin felt like he could go to the Jedi about his attachments and not have to hide them, then maybe he wouldn't have been so quick to turn against them, and could have possibly leaned on them for support (such as in the ordeal of saving Padme's life and being allowed to visit his mother on a normal basis). I hope that makes some sense. If it doesn't I'm sorry I've had a long day

 

Qui-Gon should have just stuck a saber through his head. That was the HUGE mistake.

 

Wiat are you guys saying that he wait ti train Anakin or not train him at all.

 

I hold Jinn responsible for how Anakin turned out.

I hold the force responsible for how Anakin had turned out. If Qui-gon had lived Anakin would not have fallen imo, hence why he had to die.

He took Anakin with him to be trained, and he did not wait for the right time. Obi-Wan and Yoda waited for the Force to "say" it was the right time to train Luke. But Jinn ignored that, and therefore, Anakin did not learn to let go of his connections. Which resulted in him becoming a monster.

It was time for Anakin's training. Qui-gon did not seek him out, he didn't even know he was looking for him. He "chanced" upon him. Their hyperdrive failed and they crashed on Tatooine. Whilst searching for a replacement hyperdrive he met Anakin purely by "coincedince". If he hadn't done what he did it would have been ignoring the will of the Force, not waiting or listining for it.
"Finding him was the will of the force, I have no doubt of that."
-Qui-gon
If your refering to when he manipulated the chance cube, if your suggesting that he should have let it role without interfering, is it entirely unplausable that the force was working through him?!? Just like a particularly popular deity in this world, the force (I believe) works in mysterious ways.
As for not letting go of his connections, he shouldn't have been required too. Attachment is not bad, as the PT jedi taught. It is only selfish attachment which is bad.
Attachment was all that eventually saved Anakin, the attachment he had to Luke. Unlike his selfish love of Padme which he was willing to sell his soul and hers for to maintain, he willingly sacrificed himself to save Luke and thus brought balance to the force by killing sidious. If it hadn't been for attachment, for true love between a father and son, the Sith would have won and Anakin would have remained in darkness forvever.
That's what the Jedi didn't understand until after ROTS, when Qui-gon instructed Obi-wan and Yoda.

If QG hadn't pressured the training of Anakin so much and let him grow up first, things might have turned out alot better.

Pressured who? The council or Anakin? He never pressured Anakin. He told Anakin,
"Training to become a Jedi is not an easy task, and even if you succeed, it's a hard life.
If anyone "pressured" Anakin it was his mother. I got the feeling his mother knew for a long time that his destiny would lead him far away from her one day, and that was what she told Anakin essentially.
If you mean the Council, the council needed to be pressured. As it was they had considered him too old, if he had been any older it would have been that much harder to convince them. And, need I remind you, they still decided against his training. The only reason they allowed his training at all was because of Darth Maul. His defeat of Qui-gon proved to the council that in fact the Sith were still alive, and since Anakin's discovery coincided with the reappearance of the Sith they finally realized that there was a pretty good chance Qui-gon might have actually been right.

Taking Ani away from his mom like that was a BIG mistake. Not to mention the fact that Anakin felt like he couldn't trust his Jedi family 100% either.

Qui-gon did what he could to take Shimi with them. And, while I can't prove it, everything we saw of Qui-gon suggests to me that once he had the means to do so he would have gone back to free her. Qui-gon would not have sepperated him from his mother indefinately, it was Obi-wan and the council who did that.
As for not trusting his Jedi family either, Qui-gon had nothing to do with the actions of Obi-wan and the council at that point in history so I think it's highly unfair to place the blame on him.

 

I disagree, Qui-Gon was the nicest to Anakin out of all the Jedi in EP1.
He had to start Anakin's training, or he would definitely be too old in the Council's eyes later. Anakin was doing a lot for the Republic before his turn, would the Republic (pre-Empire ) be in the same state if Anakin hadn't become a Jedi? Padme would have died in Episode 2 for a start, and Obi-Wan may not have survived. A huge part of why Obi-Wan becomes a great Jedi is from being paired with Anakin. Of course, he helps bring on the Republic's fall, but it seems the Jedi could sense there was still more than one possible "fate" in the time of TPM. Anakin, and everyone else, are just unlucky that Sidious needed a pawn, and Anakin happened to be destined to be most powerful at the time. Anakin was trained in the era the darkside was growing stronger than ever.

Is becoming a Jedi neccesarilly the first stage to becoming a Sith? Sidious could have found Anakin even if he never became a Jedi, if Sidious was that deperate.

Luke begins learning at a much older age than Anakin did, and even when the two remaining Jedi knew the risk in training Anakin's son. They were much wiser in the OT. Yoda's comments about being too old were not entirely valid, I think he was partly saying this to cover up the fact he was afraid of Anakin's potential power. He says it very abrubtly, as if it is just an excuse.
Sidious was being truthfull when he said "They know your power will be too strong to control." They feared Anakin from the start, which made things worse. Qui-Gon was much more understanding, it makes more sense to ask if his death is why Anakin turned.

 

Qui-gon did what he could to take Shimi with them. And, while I can't prove it, everything we saw of Qui-gon suggests to me that once he had the means to do so he would have gone back to free her. Qui-gon would not have sepperated him from his mother indefinately, it was Obi-wan and the council who did that.
As for not trusting his Jedi family either, Qui-gon had nothing to do with the actions of Obi-wan and the council at that point in history so I think it's highly unfair to place the blame on him.

Actually I wasn't blaming QG for Anakin's not trusting of the Jedi, I know they did that all on their own in the years after his death.
In another point,QG technically manipulated the chance cube rolled by Watto, so in a way he messed up what was naturally supposed to occur. Anakin should have never left Tatooine with him.

I disagree, Qui-Gon was the nicest to Anakin out of all the Jedi in EP1.
He had to start Anakin's training, or he would definitely be too old in the Council's eyes later

Nowhere does it say in the prophecy that the chosen one had to be a Jedi. That's why I think it was a mistake

 

Let me get this out there so I'm clear. I don't think Anakin was meant to be a Jedi. This is where Qui-Gon made the mistake. He assumed that because Anakin is so strong in the force that he must be trained immediately. Wrong! There are many problems with this because as we all know Anakin has already formed attachments. As Anakin grew into a Jedi he could never fully learn to let go of these attachments, thus resulting in his greed and anger. It seemed to be as he got older he formed more attachments and became angrier. He couldn't confide in the council because they wouldn't understand him, and chastise him rather than learn to embrace his attachments.

That's partly why Anakin turned. He felt more comfortable confiding in an outside mentor/sith rather than his own Jedi family. Directly it's not QG's fault this happened, but indirectly it was his mistake to take Anakin away.

Like I said before Chosen One doesn't necessarily =Jedi.

God I hope I made myself clear...it's quite late and I feel like I'm babbling...

 

Actually I wasn't blaming QG for Anakin's not trusting of the Jedi, I know they did that all on their own in the years after his death.
In another point,QG technically manipulated the chance cube rolled by Watto, so in a way he messed up what was naturally supposed to occur. Anakin should have never left Tatooine with him.

I totally agree that the chosen one does not equal "Jedi". Couldn't agree more in fact, because I believe it was the Chosen one's purpose to eliminate both religous sects, the Jedi and the Sith, and then because of it, allow the Galaxy and the order to begin anew. Because I believe that despite the Jedi's intentions, their actions were unbalancing the universe because they were corrupt. Meaning that it was Anakin's destiny to do what he did, hence it is not Qui-gon's fault at all. Jedi is a title not a belief, and it is not who Anakin is.
And as I said above, I believe that Qui-gon was acting on the will of the force when he manipulated the cube. The force was working through him when he did it. And before you say the Force wouldn't have needed to use him to do it, keep in mind that the Force works in mysterious ways.

He assumed that because Anakin is so strong in the force that he must be trained immediately. Wrong! There are many problems with this because as we all know Anakin has already formed attachments. As Anakin grew into a Jedi he could never fully learn to let go of these attachments, thus resulting in his greed and anger. It seemed to be as he got older he formed more attachments and became angrier. He couldn't confide in the council because they wouldn't understand him, and chastise him rather than learn to embrace his attachments.

Again, as I said above, the belief that attachement is bad is wrong! When Luke redeemed Anakin he proved that! Being selfless, as Qui-gon taught, and not having attachments is very different. That was what Anakin could never figure out until the end. He did not betray the order for Padme's sake regardless of what he thought, he did it for his own sake because he felt he couldn't live without her.
Padme would have never gone along with what he did had she known. In the end he betrayed her trust as well as everyone elses because he was not willing to let go of his own selfishness. With Luke however, he made a final noble sacrifice for the love of his son and achieved redemption.
Anakin's driving factor to the darkside was not as simple as just fear of loss, it was the fact that he felt utterly powerless to affect or change anything, so by going to the Darkside he felt he could gain the control he wanted to make what he wanted happen. In this case, keep people from dying. But in the throne room he realizes the truth, he has became a slave once more. A slave to the darkside, and now the only thing preventing him from reaching out and saving Luke is himself.
If he had had control over his own life, had been allowed to love his mother and Padme, even if they had both died, he would not have felt utterly powerless to do anything about it and would not have felt the need to make a deal with the devil.


I know that Lucas has said Qui-gon was both right and wrong concerning Anakin. Where he was wrong, I think, was the belief that Anakin was destined to destroy the Sith and then allow the order to survive. Qui-gon had no idea Anakin was destined to destroy the Jedi as well, but only by removing both sides can the new Jedi order begin, one which has learned from the mistakes of the old.

 

I disagree with pointing the finger about Anakin's turn.

Everything that was supposed to happen, happened! The prophecy was true! Through it's course was unexpected, Vader still brought balance to the force. He choose the light path.

-~Dormé~-

 

good stuff, sepahrih.

both orders have to be destroyed, and the jedi turned a blind eye on that possibility.

 

I don't know if you can blame Qui-Gon too much for the way Anakin turned out. He didn't really get to raise him, Obi-Wan did. It isn't his fault that Anakin turned out the way he did. Ultimately, Anakin made a series of bad choices. If Qui-Gon hadn't died, Anakin might never had become Vader. If Qui-Gon gets the blame for Anakin, should Yoda get the blame for Dooku? He was his master, and another sith lord.

 

They were, & the prophecy was fufilled. It's the age old principle of things happening according to the will of a higher power, not the will of man.

 

No one is blaming QG for Anakin's bad choices, we know that was all Anakin. We're saying that QG made a mistake in taking Anakin off Tatooine which sparked a bad chain of events, and for not leaving well enough alone.

 

It's not like Qui-Gon kidnapped him, he did have a choice to come with him or not. Even when they were about to leave for Corusant, Shmi told Anakin, "This path has been placed before you. The choice is yours alone." Anakin said, "I wanna do It." He was never forced by anyone, especially not Qui-Gon.

 

No one said he forced him or kidnapped him. It was all good that he freed Anakin, but he should have never offered to have him trained. That was the mistake.

 

How was it a mistake? Did he know that Anakin will choose the path he chose? Qui-Gon's intentions were good. He thought that he was the chosen one. Had Anakin choseto learn to control his emotions and not gave into fear, then we wouldnt even have this conversation.

 

It was a mistake not because QG was responsible for Anakin's actions, but because he assumed what he should not have, and that was Anakin was supposed to be trained as a jedi. You saw how much he pushed that issue. He even made Obi-Wan promise to take Anakin. I'm pulling out of this dicussion now because I feel like I'm talking in circles.

 

Even if Anakin had not become a Jedi, Sidious could've carried out his plans with Darth Tyrannus instead.

Also, even though he had emotional attachments, that should not have been such a huge problem. Yoda mentioned that he "loved more, hated more, and killed more," suggesting that he also made emotional attachments, but chose not to let his anger lead him down a destructive path.

 

when does yoda suggest this?

and how would the prophecy be fulfilled without anakin?
how would sid have carried out the plans without anakin?

anakin was ideal for what sid wanted. tyrannus is much too old, much too his own person, i guess, anakin is none of that.

 

In answer to the original post, DUH! Had Anakin not turned dark-side, the prophecy would NOT have been fulfilled.

 

Actually, the prophecy WOULD have been fulfilled had Anakin not gone Dark Side and if Qui-Gon had lived to train.

Taking Anakin off of Tatooine is NOT a mistake but leaving him on the planet IS because if Qui-Gon hadn't took Anakin to Coruscant to train him as a Jedi, then Darth Sidious will have taken over the galaxy much earlier and the Jedi Order would have been destroyed much quickly leaving noone left to stand against Sidious and whichever apprentice he had. It is indicated in ROTS that the prophecy requires only the Sith to be destroyed and it did NOT want the Jedi to be killed of or else, there is absolutely no reason for Episode 6 to be called "Return of the Jedi" since Luke is the only Jedi left to restart the Order.


The only mistakes Qui-Gon made with Anakin is:

A-Getting himself killed which left Anakin vunerable to Palpatine's mind manipulation.

and

B-Asking Obi-wan to train Anakin when Obi-wan doesn't have any experience at training Jedi.