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Lit Reading NJO...Again

Discussion in 'Literature' started by spicewood, Sep 17, 2017.

  1. Sudooku

    Sudooku Jedi Master star 4

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    May 31, 2014
    I liked how Moff Kurlen Flennic was portrayed as you say, but still not a traitor - like Fey'lya before. Unfortunately we don't see much of him later. In DN the IR is absolutely vanished in favor of the Chiss Ascendancy, and later in LotF with the exception of Moff Sarreti, we see totally different Moffs. Thirteen years are a long time but from Zahn's Bantam era with Hand of Thrawn over NJO to LotF the whole bunch of Moffs seems to be replaced from book series to book series.

    I also in Remnant saw some mutual understanding between Jacen and Pellaeon on the brink of becoming a really appraising and trusting relationship, but in Revelations in LotF Karen Traviss is doing as if Pellaeon had hated Jacen always.
     
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  2. Noash_Retrac

    Noash_Retrac Force Ghost star 4

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    Nov 14, 2006
    The Moffs situation since SotP/VotF has always been confusing.

    Hand of Thrawn Duology we have:
    - Andray
    - Bemos
    - Disra, Vilim (Braxant sector)
    - Edan
    - Horst
    - Quillan
    - Sander
    - Vered

    New Jedi Order:
    - Crowal (Valc III - Perinn sector)
    - Flennic, Kurlen (Yaga Minor - Prefsbelt sector)
    - Freyborn
    - Sarreti, Ephin (Bastion - Braxant sector)

    Legacy of the Force: Revelation
    - Lecerson, Drikl
    - Quille "Grand Moff"
    - Rosset
    - Sarreti, Ephin (Bastion - Braxant sector)
    - Siralt "Grand Moff"

    Legacy of the Force: Invincible
    - Bhao, Voryam
    - Jowar
    - Lecersen, Drikl
    - Rethway, Krom
    - Rezer
    - Westermal, Kosimo

    Fate of the Jedi series:
    - Calron the Younger (Clacis sector, presumably)
    - Garreter (Braxant sector, presumably)
    - Getelles, Tol (Antemeridian sector)
    - Jowar
    - Lecersen, Drikl
    - Malrek
    - Poliff
    - Quillan
    - Trevin
    - Vansyn, Porak
    - Woolbam (Obtrexta sector, presumably)

    I'd have enjoyed a rather more thorough idea of which sector represents which. Perhaps we should ask Timothy Zahn, Michael A. Stackpole, Sean Williams, Karen Traviss, Troy Denning and Christie Golden if they have idea for who was who and what in background notes.
     
  3. AusStig

    AusStig Force Ghost star 5

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    Feb 3, 2010
    Yeah I think she has (mild?) PTSD about planets falling to the Vong.

    See to me it is even worse, since the Empire got to WATCH the Vong, they fought them at Ithor and have the info from the NR. The Empire should be well prepared. But according to Pellaeon's own thoughts only his flagship acted well when the Vong arrived.

    Also it is only cause of the Jedi that Pelly lived, kinda funny.

    And more Nom being Nom
    I don't even try to keep track of the Moffs, they exist to serve the needs of the plot.

    As for LotF, eh Pellaeon could have changed his thoughts and remember things differently.
     
  4. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
    Pellaeon quit rather than have a secret police, and then Jacen subsequently used his honourable Navy to burn Kashyyyk. In Revelation he confirms his dislike had evolved into full blown loathing.
     
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  5. Vialco

    Vialco Force Ghost star 5

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    Mar 6, 2007
    A nice callback to his disgust for the ISB. Which the GAG essentially was a redux of.
     
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  6. Irredeemable Fanboy

    Irredeemable Fanboy Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 27, 2020
    While this is obviously because the writers aren't gonna remember all the Moffs every time in different series, in universe this paints a rather chaotic picture of the remnant's internal politics, where in spite of not losing any more territory, they keep losing Moffs and replacing them.

    Honestly if it wasn't for the Fels the remnant would have dissolved by itself eventually.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2025
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  7. Chrissonofpear2

    Chrissonofpear2 Jedi Knight star 3

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    Mar 25, 2020
    Clearly a rota system is in place where Moffs take turns on the Moff-a-go-round...[face_party]

    Possibly with Junior and Senior ones, at this rate.
    Another possibility is that key planets are allocated Moffs of their own, separately from Sectors.

    The issue of new 'Grand Moffs' is a bit of a tickler though - as you'd think they'd want to limit power grabs at that stage.
    That said, the number of sectors liked jumped from 29 ABY onward from 8 to more than 12 very likely. Even 24, perhaps.
     
  8. Irredeemable Fanboy

    Irredeemable Fanboy Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 27, 2020
    I like to think that they created the new Grand Moff position not because of some geographical concern but to prevent excessive conflict between the Moffs as there would be someone who could overrule them, while at the same time not risking it with a new Emperor yet.

    Even if this meant that the remnant's "grand moffs" basically had the same territory as a regular Moff during the Empire's prime.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2025
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  9. Jeff_Ferguson

    Jeff_Ferguson Chosen One star 5

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    May 15, 2006
    I've always assumed that the eight Moffs in Hand of Thrawn were all holdovers from the Pentastar Alignment, what with the Atlas placing those eight sectors all squarely within former Alignment Territory --- and also establishing that the Remnant was formed when Pellaeon took the fleets from Darksaber to the Outer Rim and used them to annex all the Imperial satrapies there, including the Alignment.

    15 ABE is also close enough to the Alignment's height that its glory would still be a very recent memory, and its Moffs would still carry enough weight to remain as governors of their traditional territory. By the time of the NJO and LOTF, though, I'd imagine the Alignment was a distant memory, and the Remnant's governors would all be products of the post-Pentastar Remnant itself.
     
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  10. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
    I am sure I once worked out Quillan's sector by deduction. Cannot do it right now.

    His position on the Moff Council for twenty five years is amusing.
     
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  11. Noash_Retrac

    Noash_Retrac Force Ghost star 4

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    Nov 14, 2006
    That's what I got after we got the map of the Imperial Remnant for the period of 19 ABY.

    I look forward to you knowing. One of the reasons I got the presumed next to three of the Moffs for 44 ABY is because it based on who was fighting where during Apocalypse at one point.

    And yet not mentioned during the events of the NJO and LOTF. It was implied (not sure where) but apparently several Moffs were killed when the Yuuzhan Vong invaded Remnant space, crushing Bastion, Muunilinst and no doubt several other worlds. We only had four named in the final meeting of Remnant -- Flennic, Sarreti, Crowal and Freyborn. That's half the Moffs of the traditional sectors. Mind you, in Dark Tide II: Ruin, they only really went with Sarreti being the Moff of Bastion (not the Braxant sector) and Crowal being Moff of Valc III (not the Perinn sector) while Flennic is dubbed Moff of Yaga Minor (not half the Prefsbelt sector).

    Maybe, just maybe, what if the designation of Moff no longer applied to the sectors as a whole but subsectors consisting of maybe half, third or quarter of each sector, thus expanding the Council membership? That's a possible theory to explain the extra Moffs suddenly showing up and maybe the title of Grand Moff applies to the original sector governors while Moff is for these subsectors (at least until after Pellaeon's death).
     
  12. AusStig

    AusStig Force Ghost star 5

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    Feb 3, 2010
    Made more progress, it will always annoy me that we don't see the result of Jacen negotiating with the Moff, we get to the edge of climax of the talks (which was great how Jacen dealt with him), then Pellaon comes in and doesn't let it finish. He undercuts the tension.

    Otherwise the book is good (lack of chapters aside), the stuff with the Yevetha, illistates to me why the Empire would do much worse than the NR, since most the galaxy would be like the Fein and help the Vong.

    I also like Jacen in this book, how he deals with the Vong infiltrators was good, a great warrior who doesn't like to fight, a great negotiator who would rather meditate (I am sure he is also a good pilot), but he also has some of his old humour.

    I also wonder if Pellaeon suffered brain damage due to his injuries and that helps him lead the fleet better, but still it is clear the Jedi and their info are key to this fight.
     
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  13. AusStig

    AusStig Force Ghost star 5

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    Feb 3, 2010
    Just finished FH1. Pellaeon, must have suffered brain damage, cause he wins a battle (due to the heroes info as well). The plan with the ship to play dead was fun, and the rescue was good, if a little confusing.

    Also was glade Pellaeon also said that the Empire couldn't handle the Rebels so they would also lose to the Vong, which was good to hear, or read rather.

    The Jaina stuff was good action. The suspicion about Tahiri is interesting too.

    Also now Nom is becoming the prophet. Fun.

    I think this book would be better with chapters.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2025
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  14. AusStig

    AusStig Force Ghost star 5

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    Feb 3, 2010
    Just finished FH2.I like where Tahiri's story is going, she kinda becomes a living metaphor for the galaxy. Also anyone find it weird that the Vong kidnap a 3 blonde human females in the war? Danni in VP, Kaye Galfridian ( https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Kaye_Galfridian ) from the comics, and Tahiri from Edge of Victory.

    The Chiss stuff was good over all. Jacen being cool and rescuing another blonde woman held hostage.

    The story of the shamed ones was good interesting how the cult is growing.

    The Bakura stuff took up too much space. It feels like filler. Now onto the 3rd FH book.
     
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  15. Noash_Retrac

    Noash_Retrac Force Ghost star 4

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    Nov 14, 2006
    And then she does what she does in Invincible.
     
  16. AusStig

    AusStig Force Ghost star 5

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    Feb 3, 2010
    Lets not bring the Denningverse into this.
     
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  17. Darth Vectivus

    Darth Vectivus Jedi Knight star 4

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    Dec 9, 2023
    The Yuuzhan Vong should return in Star Wars i would love to see the moment where the Vong invade Coruscant represented in Live Action
     
  18. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
    I absently wonder how large the probe fleet was in 32 BBY.

    A cluster is two hundred ships, by all accounts, with twenty capital ships.

    With how the Chiss Ascendancy has been portrayed, that strikes me as a force strong enough to concern them. Much larger and they could have carved a territory in the Knowns, otherwise.

    I am becoming increasingly of the view that the Yuuzhan Vong were not prepared for a long war in 25 ABY. If they didn't propagate, they would have lost much sooner. With the armada's raised to assault Coruscant, Ebaq 9 and Mon Calamari, a large amount of which was new construction, they may have genuinely deployed all but their reserves by the Battle of Duro.

    This rather elevates the Battle of Shramar and destruction of the shipwomb in the running.

    I am also more convinced that the Yuuzhan Vong left their home galaxy no earlier than 1000 BBY, due to Baanu Rass being a thousand years old and their very oldest worldship. That also brings their home galaxy considerably closer to Skyriver, and thus leans more into the thought of it being a satellite galaxy (though likely Companion Grek).
     
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  19. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Chosen One star 7

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    Sep 2, 2012
    How does Canderous Ordo's story and the Shaper in the Kanz Disorders figure into this?
     
  20. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
    I could see the Yuuzhan Vong going through spells of preparing invasions and then falling apart into civil war.

    Though I half-expect the Shaper is the selfsame ship that arrived at Crispin that Ordo saw. That means the ship that arrived in 3960 BBY could also have the experimental hyperdrive the Shaper pioneered.
     
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  21. Vialco

    Vialco Force Ghost star 5

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    Mar 6, 2007
    Perhaps even as the Brotherhood of Darkness was meeting it's end on Ruusan and the Sith went into hiding, the Vong begin their long journey across the stars. Perhaps one of the few Force-sensitive Vong sensed the end of the Sith and determined that it was finally safe to begin their migration.
     
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  22. Alpha-Red

    Alpha-Red 18X Hangman Winner star 7 VIP - Game Winner

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    Apr 25, 2004
    Why couldn't the Yuuzhan Vong just have used some kind of growth acceleration to create more warriors? If the Kaminoans could do it, surely the Yuuzhan Vong could do so as well. They even have the ability to transplant memories, so they could make every single warrior Czulkang Lah.
     
  23. SyndicThrass

    SyndicThrass Force Ghost star 5

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    Sep 25, 2016
    I get the feeling that the Vong thought the war would be over by Vongmas.
     
  24. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Chosen One star 7

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    Sep 2, 2012
    The amount of wars I've studied, and kept hearing this. Come on guys
     
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  25. Noash_Retrac

    Noash_Retrac Force Ghost star 4

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    Nov 14, 2006
    Well, with the New Republic retreating closer to Coruscant because Sovv and Brand were trying to move the Yuuzhan Vong into a battle on their terms but kept failing as early as 6 months into the conflict, whole systems such as Argazda surrendering and others likely only light defended with two-ten ships at best in the Outer and Mid Rims, the formation of the collaborating Peace Brigade traitors, plus their religious dogma driving them on to believe the infidels would fall before their might as the will of their gods, it seemed that they expected things to end by 26 ABY at the least.