PT Red Letter Media and other Prequel Reviews

I did. With a little download widget. Very handy.

At the moment, I don't have sound on my PC, so I download to my PC, then transfer videos and watch them on my phone.

But I have to be careful about eating up bandwidth. Just moved into a new place. Currently, there's no Internet access available through a phone line or through cable, so I'm using a mobile dongle via my computer's USB port that connects to the UK's "3" network. You have very tight limitations on these things and must top-up as you burn through your allowance; but it's better than no Internet at all.

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Anyway, the video...

They seem like a decent bunch of guys; though, it did annoy me at one point, around the eleven-minute mark, when Kyle Newman started speaking after the camera had been off him a while, and the rest of them started laughing because he began defending the political nature of the PT. I mean, they only chided him a bit, but that kind of snobbish behaviour really irritates me at the best of times.

So, what can I conclude about this film, from watching four geeks recording themselves on iPhones hashing it out in an unnamed Hollywood car park? If I take the Kyle Newman route, it's a nice little fan effort, that helps shine the spotlight on the PT in a new and encouraging way. If I stick with my cynical appraisal, it's another tired bash at the PT, with someone else looking for their fifteen minutes of fame/glory. In reality, it's probably both, and neither.

If there's anything to really be impressed by or with, then it might just be the fact that the prequels continue to yield these campfire discussions and geek-meets years after they hit cinemas, and after more than a decade of pretty persistent bashing and naysaying.

It is still a good time to be a Star Wars geek.

I found it curious that, despite those guys in the video emphasizing that the cut is faithful to the Anakin-Padme storyline, and supposedly enhances a viewer's appreciation for it, all their scenes -- every last one -- in TPM are missing, thereby destroying the beautiful bedrock of their love, and during the birth-of-Vader scene, Anakin is apparently NOT told he has killed his beloved, pretty much nullifying the Greek tragedy of ROTS, and the sucker-punch impact of Anakin's choices, the sum total of his deeds, in one quick edit. Amazing, that.

So, apart from completely gutting the heart and soul out of the PT, and having little to recommend for any serious fan, and despite what I sensed were the diplomatic overtures of Kyle Newman talking it up in a positive fashion, I guess every PT fan will be busting to see this; and probably never will. The world continues to turn...

 

I couldn't glean Topher's motivations from that article, so I won't judge him in any way for this. He sounds like a fan with an interest in the film editing process itself, and this could very well have just been a fun experiment for him.

The article writer though seems pretty unaware yet judgmental. He entirely dismisses the "politics" in the prequels as "fluff," like too many prequel haters. Yet he claims at the same time that the "character motivations" in Tophers 85 minute mash up of three separate movies are somehow more clear.

Excuse me? Anakin's protectiveness for his friends, his attachment issues, his desire to seize control of his own life, and his dream to become a heroic messiah (which was closer to a dictator than he realized) are all rooted in TPM. He knows how broken the galaxy's governing system is. He grew up with nothing but his own mother, who he had to leave behind, meaning that he'd always fear personal loss again. Meanwhile Obi-Wan was a close-minded follower of the close-minded Jedi Council. He didn't even want to train Anakin, and only took that job out of obligation to Qui-Gon's dying wish.

Topher's cut skips ALL of that, literally starting with the climactic duel against Darth Maul. Yet the article writer thinks that the characters are more clear that way? I mean, Topher was literally unable to add to the movies, except for that one deleted scene of Anakin meeting with Padme's family. How is taking out all the backstory and buildup that explains the character motivations making things more clear and identifiable? How is that giving Anakin and Obi-Wan MORE of an arc? Is the article writer even aware of all this stuff?

Also according to the article, Topher's cut completely leaves out most of the Senate scenes, as well as the entirety of the Clone Wars. I really have to disagree with his opinion that that's all unnecessary. Those things were very important to the purpose and theme of the prequels, which portrayed how a democracy can fall into dictatorship because of war, fear, and misinformation.

I always thought that the "politics" complaints were extremely overblown. The prequels did not show the Senate debating topics like health care, income tax brackets, or farm subsidies. The "taxes" weren't even the actual point of discussion in TPM; it was the Trade Federation invasion of Naboo. In all three prequels, the Senate talked about WAR. Conflict, and what to do with it. Things that were completely relevant to a series called Star Wars.

Although I admittedly don't know any of these people in person, I have to say that it rubs me as a bit childish. I remember my middle and high school days, when thoughtless and self-centered teenagers (myself included) thought that "politics" were "boring" and completely irrelevant to our lives. We didn't ever want the subject, or even the word to be brought up. As a young adult, I realize now that politics, as dirty and stupid as it gets, involves real issues that affect real people. Politics includes war, and issues at the very heart of our democracy. So it kind of bugs me when prequel bashers go "Ew...politics!" Especially when almost all of the "politics" in the prequels were focused on war, the "entertaining" subject.

Really, that article seemed to be carrying on the same old sentiment, that anybody can make or cut a better Star Wars movie than George Lucas.

 

As usual, I agree with both of you, Jim and Cryo.

I must say that I really love Kyle's passion and support for the PT. He seems to be one of the few public figureheads/celebs that not only admits to liking the prequels but defends them with the passion that some of us gushers here at the forums do. Most that like them tend to stay quiet. YOu can tell Kyle thinks it it's ridiculous the amount of hate these movies get.

That being said, the bald guy in the video who seems to be taking the opposite stance on the prequels as Kyle, at one point admits to liking Episodes 2 and 3, and even goes as far as saying he likes certain parts of Episode 1 even though he has huge issues with it. Just goes to show, the vitrol spewed at the prequels even comes from those who don't mind them. The idea of the whole prequel thing through the years has come to the point to jab at them even if you like them for the most part.

 

I also agree with Jim and Cryo.

I think Jim has just capably summed up a lot of my bug bears with the article, which I, of course, read before downloading the video.

I mean, hot damn, just for kicks, I'd love to read a similar article on, I dunno, the major works of Orson Welles, Picasso's "blue" period, The Beatles' "White Album", just to throw some suggestions out.

Should "Hamlet" start at Act III? Should "Julius Caesar" be intercut with "Antony And Cleopatra"? Does "Moby Dick" need a few dozen chapters removing? Should Orwell have just left all that Big Brother crap out of "1984"?

Boy, oh, boy! I mean, it's not that works aren't edited, or creatively re-interpreted, like, all the time, because they are. But a lot of so-called fans apparently want to take a chainsaw to the PT. If you want to massacre something that bad, why not go out and make your own movies, instead?

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One cool thing about that article, though:

THOSE MIGHTY FINE PREQUEL POSTERS!

[image=http://bitcast-a-sm.bitgravity.com/slashfilm/wp/wp-content/images/ZZ2DC75257.jpg]

Where did they spring from?

I want, I want, I want!!!

Maybe they're just a vector graphic mock-up or something, but I'd love to adorn my wall with matching pieces like these.

There are, indeed, some talented fans out there.

He seems to have a great passion. I'm surprised, however, that he was stumped in the video by a question on Obi-Wan's clothing. I think it's pretty clear that his Jedi robes are a close match with what a lot of farmers and other residents of Tatooine wear in the area. He needn't have been tongue-tied for something to say. What I like about Newman -- and this is the first time I've seen or heard him speak -- is that he seems warm, receptive, level-headed, and approachable. He doesn't shout his opinions out, and he doesn't appear to talk over those with a different POV, but he's plenty at ease with speaking elegantly when it's his turn.

I know. A lot of people come off as rather strident online as standard. I doubt they're as bad in "real life". PT hatred is more of a cultural thing that appears to need the Internet to keep going at an audible level. In small numbers, face-to-face, people are generally less tribal, all things being equal, in my opinion.

 

Lame actor who helped stink up SM3 makes "phantom edit"...



I wonder if I can somehow recut That 70's Show to make it actually funny...nah, probably not

What amazes me about this trend is THIS:

1. The PT is supposed to be all wrong in every way.
2. And yet EVERYONE on earth seems to wish THEY had made it themselves!!! Seriously, have you ever seen so many people pretend to have directed a movie??

Really truly strangely BIZARRE!!

PS: How long until we hear that Topher's voicing Young Lobot on TCW?? I give it 3 months...

 

-Topher Grace is a good actor.
-SW3 stunk because it stunk, and it wasn't Topher Grace's fault.
-That 70's Show was quite funny and had a terrific ensemble cast.
-The PT is not wrong in every way, but it could have been much better.
-Everyone does not wish they made it themselves, but rather, many people were unsatisfied with the end product. They obsess over tweaking with it because SW was such a huge influence on their lives.
-I give it 2 months.

 

This whole thing with Topher Grace reminds me of a few things. One, it reminds me of how many movies have been re-edited in the past by people who thought they knew better than the original filmmakers, or at the very least were attempting to accomodate missing footage, whatnot. Fritz Lang's silent epic "Dr. Mabuse, The Gambler" was reportedly recut in Russia by none other than Sergei Eisenstein to fit whatever the demands were in that cinematic climate. The absolute classic "Metropolis" was recut around the world for decades, to the point that you now have fully accredited film geeks swearing up and down that their favorite version of the film is the Giorgio Moroder one with all kinds of missing material and 80's music cut over it.

Thankfully, in both of those cases we have the original versions intact (or mostly so) on DVD. We're not quite so lucky with other silent classics like Abel Gance's "Napoleon", where the full cut exists, but is caught in legal limbo thanks to efforts to squash it by Francis Ford Coppola, who did his own restoration years ago with a new score by his father, and is unwilling to let anyone else have anything to do with it, at least in the States. The point being-- films often find themselves routinely manipulated by third parties, and one shouldn't take little innocent-seeming "fan-edit" projects like these lightly, even in an age of mass media saturation.

The other thing it reminds me of is how years ago, after the LOTR film trilogy was all said and done with, I thought it might be a fun idea to try and assemble all the footage and re-edit them into something that was-- how shall I put it-- not so dreadfully boring. I thought "Fellowship of the Ring" was fun and brisk, but the other two really wore on me after a while. Frodo, Sam and Gollum's story was interesting, but everything else-- the humans and their petty rivalries and love triangles, the eye-rolling banter between invincible God Moding elves and Napoleon-complex tough-guy dwarves, and especially everything having to do with the Scooby Doo hobbits and the "Give a Hoot, Don't Pollute" talking trees-- would've lulled me to sleep if it weren't so irritating. So I figured, wouldn't it be fun to try and cut all of the Frodo/Sam/Gollum stuff from "The Two Towers" and "Return of the King" together, and ignore all of the rest? I mean, maybe include some of the battle sequences, but not too many. Who knows, maybe you could even cut out the fat from "Fellowship" and get the whole trilogy running at a lean, mean 3 hours, or less. Focus on the men fighting over that golden ring, and call it "The Treasure of Sierra Mordor".

I thought about that for a bit, but in the end the thoughts vanished from my head almost as quickly as I'd dreamed them up. Why? Because at the end of the day, the prospect of recutting a film you claim to find dreadfully boring is, in and of itself, a rather boring idea. Do I think that LOTR could be reshaped in a fan-edit into something shorter, something better? Yeah. But it'll still be LOTR, so why should I give a damn?

 

Yeah, I remember lots of talkbalkers on AICn in summer '99 complaining that he was too sweet and they would have preferred someone like John Connor from T2. Well, they got Anakin as a rebellious teen in AOTC, and guess what? They were still bitching because now he was too whiny and unsympathetic!

 

Glad to see someone else was disappointed in that undercooked affair. Granted, some of the issues probably stem from the source but still, the finale of the saga deserved some more oomph. While not perfect, ROTS delivered a lot more in that regard!

 

I see two problems here:

1) Certain people have already made up their minds that the prequels, and everything in the prequels, can do no right.

2) These people also seem to have extremely simplistic views on characterization. They think in black-and-white terms, and don't seem to understand that real people act in different ways depending on the situation. I can trace all of AOTC/ROTS Anakin's behavior and personality to how he was portrayed in TPM. They, on the other hand, declare think that people are either "happy" or "emo," "whiny" or "heroic." As if it's impossible for someone to be both.

 

I must admit, before ROTS I myself wasn't exactly happy with the change between an innocent Ani in TPM and an angsty teen in AOTC. "What the hell did the Jedi do to the sweet boy to turn him into a brat with so many issues?", I was wondering. After ROTS came out, I more or less reconciled with the somewhat choppy characterization of Anakin in the prequels - mostly because Anakin in the opening chapter of ROTS is actually far more similar to the podracing boy in TPM than the moody young apprentice from AOTC.

As I see it, Anakin in AOTC is going through the difficult period of his life: from the uneasy relationship with his master (a repeat of Qui-Gon/Obi-Wan tension, further exacerbated by his more volatile nature as well as Obi-Wan's lesser patience) to disturbing dreams of his mother to, unexpectedly, seeing the girl he's had a crush on for ten years! If it wasn't a family movie, I'm sure the hormones would feature more prominently, too (remember what it was like to be in your late teens?) The Jedi are overly harsh, cold and skeptical towards him (as he sees it), the only person who actually respects him is his friend Palpatine. And then pretty much nothing is going his way: the assassin escapes, the woman he loves rejects his advances, he fails to save his mother and severely violates the Jedi code by avenging her, he fails to save his master, and, although faring well in the Arena and afterwards, eventually is humiliated by Dooku! Can you recall another blockbuster protagonist (even without the "chosen one" status) going through so much crap through almost the entire movie???

By the time Episode III rolls in, things have drastically improved. Anakin is married to the woman he loves and has become one of the most respected heroes of the Clone Wars on the fast track to becoming a Master. He's also happy when he's doing what's he's best at: piloting, saving his friends, killing the bad guys. Things are relatively black-and-white in war, kill your enemies, save the day. Kind of like the OT It's when he goes back to reality with manipulations, premonitions and divided allegiances is when Anakin becomes troubled again. What the Jedi failed to teach him is to give up his ego and think about the consequences of his actions.

I think people tend to dismiss boy Anakin because he's just a child, ten year gap in the internal chronology and a different actor doesn't help either. I understand why it was important to show Anakin as essentially a good boy but I do wish it was done in a more coherent manner.

 

I find their labeling of Anakin as "emo" to be particularly dubious. First of all, this is the name of a musical genre. You might as well call him "jazz" or something. But going by the apparent connotation, the appearance of this label seems to imply that those using it ( if not shameless hypocrites ) function as emotionless self-assured yuppie cyborgs who never, ever show emotion or frustration, including when spouses and family members die or are threatened with death. However, this kind of thing is enabled by the anonymity of the Internet; I suspect that if any one of these labelers were somehow put under the microscope on a personal level in a similar context, you'd see quite a lot of so-called "emo". But this, of course, has been swept under the rug, along with any concept that they might have once been awkward as teenagers. The urge to revise history is very strong in certain sectors.

 

I have a friend, a screenwriter and horror novelist, who hates the prequels and loves the OT. He thinks RLM's videos are funny and on-point. Hoo boy. I spent an hour with him trying to explain what the TF is doing on Naboo, using things like the opening crawl and dialogue and events from the movie. At one point I said something like, "If you know anything about history, you'll know what supply blockades are intended to do," and he got offended that I was insulting his intelligence.

I apologized, replacing "you" with "one", but he became willfully obtuse and unwilling to learn or open his mind. To my very smart but cynical friend, the plot of TPM makes no sense -- and even if it does, if you have to figure it out by examining the script then it has failed as a piece of mainstream entertainment.

Oh well. He'll always have the originals, which like me he adores.

 

I don't think old school fanboys get upset over things that improve image and sound quality. Improved color, resolution and fidelity are good things.

Rather, they get upset when story elements are changed (often for the worse, e.g Greedo shooting first) or when things are inserted that do not improve the sequence (e.g. all the extraneous stuff inserted in the Mos Eisley streets, or Jabba confronting Han in ANH SE).

 

Ha, unfortunately many otherwise intelligent people often display gaping logical blind spots. The sad truth is that many people only use their smarts when they are required to. I know an engineer who also believes in UFO conspiracy theories, who once speculated that American military aircraft are the product of alien reverse-engineering. Which is pretty bad, considering what he does for a job.

I never thought the opening crawl was mysterious. There's a conflict between the Trade Fed and the Naboo, that had its roots in an economic dispute. Instead of talking things out, the Trade Fed decided to throw its military might around. I got that the first time I saw the movie as a kid. Nothing more needs to be explained (you could if you want to, but it has no effect on the plot), because the tax dispute is a MacGuffin.

What undercuts the prequel bashers' position is that they claim to have superior logic, even as they simultaneously claim to understand things less than the people who got the prequels.

 

*EDIT*

Deleted post, as I meant to post it in Rebuttal thread.

 

Is the conflict between Naboo and the TF? The opening crawl says this;
"Turmoil has engulfed the Galactic Republic. The taxation of trade routes to
outlaying star systems is in dispute.
Hoping to resolve the matter with a blockade of deadly battleships, the
greedy Trade Federation has stopped all shipping to the small planet of
Naboo."

Notice the plural systemS and trade routeS. And the Senate was involved with some new tax. If this was just a local Naboo tax why would the senate be involved and why would this affect many systems?

No as far as the movie tells me the conflict is this, the TF is unhappy about some new tax and in protest or in order to force the senate to remove it, they blockade Naboo. Kind of like if Microsoft was unhappy about some new US tax and they decide to blockade Des Moines.
So the conflict isn't between Naboo and the TF as such, they just get caught in the TF's protest against the senate.

Regards
Nordom

 

I am a scientist, and I believe that intelligent extra-terrestrial life exists. It must exist, based on calculations of probabilities given the immensity of our universe. Chances are also very good that there are beings who are millions of years ahead of us in technology, with capabilities that we can't even begin to fathom. That being said, you can not discount the possibility (maybe even probability) that our world has been visited by aliens.

I'm not much of a conspiracy theorist, however, I can not discount the possibility that cover-ups have occurred. If an alien race with vastly superior technology has visited our world, it is in the best interest of the populace for governments to keep that knowledge under wraps. Not only for reverse-engineering purposes (selfish), but more importantly, to curb mass hysteria (not selfish). There would likely be a massive panic on a global scale if word got out that we've been visited by beings who could wipe us out on a whim.

Although I don't adamantly hold that cover-ups have occurred, I am willing to acknowledge that they could have occurred. Your friend is not as crazy or unintelligent as you may think.

I think it's more likely that we've been visited by aliens than by angels, yet lots of people believe in angels- and not many people call them crazy.

 

The main problem with the movie is how mediocre a director David Yates is. Deathly Hallows 2 still worked because of how epic the story was, but it would have had a lot more impact if someone like Peter Jackson or Guillermo del Torro directed.

Speaking of Harry Potter, I always found Anakin in AOTC very similar to Harry's character in the Order of the Phoenix. They were both going through that angry teen phase but Harry, at least in the book, was even more whiny and annoying than a Skywalker, if you can imagine such a thing.

 

They could be creating a mess as a protest to the Senate. BTW, the "Microsoft" analogy is completely off because Microsoft does not have an army, does not control territory and populations, and does not have Senate representation. The Trade Federation, led by a "Viceroy" (a government position, NOT a CEO), appears to be an legal entity composed of many worlds. And the Naboo are a part of the Republic, obviously would have relations with other worlds in the Republic, and would have say in whatever tax dispute was going on.

None of which matters to the plot, which is that there's a military conflict that sprung out of an economic problem.

It is unscientific to believe that they DID occur without actual evidence. And I am talking about someone who just today said that famous smart people in history, like Einstein, might have been abducted by aliens and had their intelligence artifically boosted by them. Please don't go and defend that one.

But whatever, this is going off topic. All it was supposed to do was make a point, which is that intelligent people can still have logical blind spots and believe stupid things.

 

Actually, I think Nordom's reading here is dead on, and it's one of the reasons I absolutely loved TPM when it came out. It captures a particular kind of absurdity in Washington that was becoming more apparent in the late 90's, the ways in which corporate interests were more or less buying their way into politics, something that's become more and more obvious and odious following the Supreme Court's recent ruling on campaign finance. Stuff like "the Senator from the Trade Federation" had me laughing in my seat, seeing it in '99. If you get the absurdity of the scene, it plays wonderfully.

 

My point was that the conflict seemed to be between the Senate and the TF, not directly between the TF and Naboo, Naboo just got caught in the crossfire. From the TF's viewpoint, any planet would do to make their protest. Naboo can have a say in matters yes but they are just one planet. I doubt they alone can make some new tax that affects the entire republic.

It does matter to the plot.
If the TF is blockading Naboo as a protest to the senate about this new tax why was an invasion planned and launched? The blockade was apprently legal, but I wonder how, but the invasion was not. At least not until some treaty was signed. I can see the blockade as a kind of protest but the invasion must be kept a secret so that is not usefull as a protest. And if the TF take over Naboo how does that work as a protest against this new tax and how does it help the TF in getting rid of it?
Will the TF take over the Naboo place in the senate? If so that means that Palpatine would be out of a job. Will the TF reperesentative get more votes as they controll more planets? The TF already seem to controll a significant number of planets so why would one more matter?

If the tax is a Naboo thing, that they have decided to tax all trade to their planet more then a blockade and invasion seems a bit extreme. Naboo is just one planet and the TF could simply stop trading with them and take their buisness eleswhere. Also why would the senate be involved with some local tax? Would the US senate get involved if some mayor raised the local tax?

The TF work with Sidious and what he has to gain is obvious, the TF has a big army and they create a crisis which he can use. But what is in it for the TF? They want some new tax gone but how is an invasion of Naboo helping them get that?

Umm, I didn't say the line you just quoted, that was MrFantastic74.

Regards
Nordom