"Revenge" Does Not Explain the Cave in "Empire"

I was really hoping that Revenge of the Sith would explain the reason behind the strong presence of the Dark Side in the Cave on Dagobah.

In Episode V, Luke senses the presence of the Cave and says that he feels cold. Yoda says that the Cave is a domain of evil and it is strong with the Dark Side. Luke enters the cave and has a vision of Darth Vader.

Before seeing Revenge, my guess was that Yoda fled to Dagobah, only to be followed by Count Dooku. Then Yoda and Dooku have a rematch in the Cave in which Dooku is killed, but his spirit continues to linger there. Of course, I was wrong.

Some questions then:

1) Why is the Cave permeated by the Dark Side of the Force?

2) Before leaving for Bespin, Yoda tells Luke to remember his "failure" at the Cave. What "failure" is Yoda referring to?

3) When Luke first lands on Dagobah, he says to Artoo that he feels like he had been there before and that Dagobah was like something from one of his dreams. What is Luke talking about? Did he visit Dagobah as a small child or something?

Only Star Wars experts need reply!

 

IIRC, it was stated in the EU that Yoda defeated a Sith Lord/Dark Jedi there many years before TPM.

 

It really didn't need an explination, in my opinion.

 

At a guess, GL might decide to address this issue among others in the TV show.

 

IMO, the cave was just a cave. Yoda was giving Luke his first Jedi trial.

 

I kinda like that its not ever specifically explained in the movies.

But yeah I just read a short comic EU story where Yoda killed a dark Jedi master there........This is what it said after Yoda killed the evil master in the cave...

"On this fateful day, on this remote planet, forever is changed the balance of the force.

A new place of power, annointed with the sweat of the just and the blood of the wicked, is founded."

 

1) "Why is the Cave permeated by the Dark Side of the Force?"

There are certain areas the force is strong in than others, like how certain individuals are more force sensitive than others. That location had a very strong connection to the darkside. I don't see why an explination is needed. Although if you want one it's possible a sith died there and left a dark taint, as the person above suggested. Or maybe it was always that way.


2) "Before leaving for Bespin, Yoda tells Luke to remember his "failure" at the Cave. What "failure" is Yoda referring to?"

First off, Luke didn't follow Yoda's advice about not taking his weapons into the cave, right off the bat he already was doomed to fail. His actual failure came when he chopped of "Fake Vader's" head. Luke fought with fear when he should have fought with indiference. He defeated Vader, but in doing so he essentially became Vader, as was shown when the mask revealed his face underneath the helmet. Fear is a path to the darkside.
The right choice would have been to first off, leave his weapons behind as Yoda told him too. This would force him to rely solely on himself and the Force, and not "Crude matter". Then when Vader appeared, he should have recognized Vader for what he was, an Illusion who represented Luke's greatest fear. Then finally, he should have looked vader in the eye (or visor ) and stood him down, thus conquering his fear and taking the next step to Jedi Knighthood.



3) "When Luke first lands on Dagobah, he says to Artoo that he feels like he had been there before and that Dagobah was like something from one of his dreams. What is Luke talking about? Did he visit Dagobah as a small child or something?"

This one eludes me as well. I've heard different explinations, none of which I really care for, but this is a seperate question altogether, do a search and find it you will.

 

There's a scene in the Clone Wars Cartoon with Anikin and Qui Gon that involves the cave as well. Its in a dream sequence I believe. Maybe someone else who's seen the cartoons can explain it better than I.

 

Well, in on the EU triliogies, i think its the anderson series with dark apprentice and what not. There is some kind of tablet there or something pertaining to some dark lord or something. I would have to read it again to make sure. But then they took it to Lando for some reason or another to examine it. oh well

 

3) "When Luke first lands on Dagobah, he says to Artoo that he feels like he had been there before and that Dagobah was like something from one of his dreams. What is Luke talking about? Did he visit Dagobah as a small child or something?"

I like the interpretation that what he's feeling is Yoda's presence.

 

It was easily explained in ESB alone.
A test. Face your fear, becareful not to destroy yourself, if you're not careful, you, too, can become "evil", and best of all on the commentary: do not become your own worst enemy.

"what's in there?"
"only what you take with you"
To be taken literally and figuratively. Bytaking his weapons, Luke expects the worst, or he is afraid, "you will be! you WILL be."

"Only waht you take with you." A metaphor. What is in your head that you take with you??? Answer: what ever YOU decide. What is your state of mind? is what Yoda is saying. What are you expecting? He's expecting the things he feared. Luke's mind was filled with fear and uncertainty (rightfully so, Ben and Yoda didn't tell him EVERYTHING about the past, a good thing AND a bad thing). Luke failed because his frame of mind wasn't "right" because obviously, his frame of mind caused him to take his weapons...in essence, Luke himself created the events that transpired in the cave. Walking in there was like walking into his own subconcious mind: Don't take your "baggage with you or you will destroy yourself." This fear, anxiety, and clouded vision is what was going on in Anakin's head in AOTC and ROTS. Yoda was just trying to show Luke what was in Luke's head at the time. It wasn't strength. This is how Luke failed. It is a powerful learning tool, this scene. These 6 movies have tought me so much about myself. i love it!!

I like these lines in TPM by Qui Gon: "Your focus determines your reality" and "don't center on your anxieties, Obi Wan...."
Star wars has alot of hidden messages that are totally mind blowing, but if you keep an open mind, they're not so "hidden".

IMO, my post makes complete sense. What do you guys think? I'd like to know. I love to hear others' interpretations of the same scene, as well as what they think of MY interpretation.
Peace.

My edit: Imagine if it was a stormtrooper helmet instead.....the cave would be about the past!! d'oh!! (I'm watching ANH right now.)

 

^Basically what I said, although I didn't comment on the, only what you take with you line. Good explaining for everything.

 

His failure is that if he continues on his current path, he will turn to the dark side. As he is still impatient and impulsive.

 

1. I always took it as Yoda was just making up an excuse to peak young lukes interest. Its just a test. Maybe Yoda somehow make Luke imagine the whole thing. It was to me a sort of Luke trying to face his inner demons....and a once again foreshadowing event, that gave more proof to the pudding, that Luke was Vaders son. I.E....Lukes face in Vaders mask, Lukes mechanical hand just like his fathers. He was slowly becoming his father.

2. As with the failure...he failed the the test. Thus he failed to become a Jedi.

3. He felt Yoda's presence because he is also very strong with the force...like a Jedi raydar.

 

For number 3, Skywalkers have a tendency to have dreams and visions of the future. I definitely think Luke had a premonition about this earlier in life.

So..I don't have any real deep answer, except to take it at face value.

 

I was under the assumption that the cave was the ruins of a Sith temple.Maybe there will be a deleted scene on the ROTS DVD that deals with this.

 

Why can't people accept that the cave is just strong with the Dark Side. Why does there need to be some whole story about it. If the Dark Side is strong there, then it is strong there.

 

I'm really glad the PT doesn't try to explain the cave. God knows the PT would probably have some scene where Yoda tests the midichlorian content of the soil and it'll be dubbed the Chosen Cave created from some virgin birth or something...

*shudders*

Sadly, I'll just except the explanation from Zahn's books.

 

Dagobah feels familiar b/c Yoda says he has been watching Luke for a long time. Remember the conversation with Obi Wan is ESB? I think the most reasonable explanation is through the force he must have felt Yoda and his surroundings somehow. There are many instances in real life where feelings and images are trapped beneath the surface and emerge later. Something triggers them.

It is explained in Timothy Zahn's second book series Specter of the Past and Vision of The Future that a dark Jedi crashed with a smuggler and Yoda fought and killed the Dark Jedi. He then healed the smuggler and sent him on his way. The smuggler gets some of Yoda's power,he believes it was somehow transferred during the healings Yoda did, the smuggler then exploits these and ends up years later sicker than ever. He returns to Dagobah and begs Yoda for help which Yoda refuses saying he must save his strenght, his greatest and most important challenege is soon....ie training Luke. This did not happen pre TPM as someone previously posted. And of course not everyone believes the EU to be Cannon. However these two Zahn books are excellent and tie in with Survivors Quest and the new Jedi order.

 

thank you darth megan!

 

I heard about this deleted scene that'll be on the ROTS DVD:

[Ext. Space. As the clone war battle from the beginning of the movie takes place, we see a random ship flying off into nowhere, looking like he's drunk. One of Sidious' ships follows it]

[Ext. Dagobah. Jar-Jar gets out of his crashed airship]
Jar Jar: Methinks I crashed

[He walks into the cave]
JJ: I can rest here

[A bad guy walks in and blasts him]

Well there you have it, the cave in Dagobah is haunted by Jar-Jar's ghost!

 

I thought Jorus C'baoth went to Dagobah as well. When he was a crazy, insane Dark Jedi Master? Maybe? Am I mixing up books here?

Well, regardless, it's been shown many times in the EU that places and objects can harbor "taints" from the Dark Side, i.e., the temple on Yavin which was tainted with Exar Kun's spirit. So it very well may be that the Dark Jedi Yoda fought on Dagobah left his Dark Side stain on that cave.

 

I always had thought that it was just a place very strong in the dark side. Whatever the EU has to say I really don't consider an explanation as EU doesn't really count. I think Yoda chose Dagobah because of the cave. It had a strong enough dark precense to concile him from the Emperor and Vaders senses.

 

I've always thought that the bit about look feeling he remembers dagobah like a dream refers to obi wan telling him to go there while he was only semi conscious on Hoth.

 

ok, first luke feels as though he has been to dagobah b4 because if u read the star wars books jedis have strong connections with each other thru the force(luke senses vader on the star destroyer, luke feels as though hes known leia etc...) he has been connecting with yoda and felt as though he was on dagobah. secondly about the cave, different places have different force strengths. the jedi temple has a large amount of lightside force. perhaps this cave is the same with the darkside. yoda would hide there to cloak himself with the darkside. lastly lukes faliure at the cave would be that he brought his weapons and became vader as mentioned earlier,

peace out
mtfbwy