PT Revenge Of The Sith ranking opinion?.

^ that's pretty much my feelings on ROTS as a whole

great summary

 

You make a lot of good points here.
Most of which I agree with.

But to me ROTS is better than the ST

 

I mean, after rewatching the film...I sort of get it. The scenes that are good are really, really good. It's also rich with Star Wars lore, more so than any other Star Wars film. It's also super dark and the aesthetics such as the establishing shots, the score, action sequences, and various shots are absolutely stunning. There are some really good high points in this movie.

 

That's cool to hear. I think it is definitely something that warrants a lot of viewings (or time to reflect) to see it from other perspectives.

I do admit there are some low points, I personally would have preferred a 3 or 4 hour movie to do some elements more justice, honestly, but the film's place as both a finale to and a setup of the OT is what made me a hardcore SW fan.
I think Lucas was quite clever in trying to write the film in a way that it is both the beginning and the end, depending on from where a viewer comes into the franchise, or just how you want to watch them on re-viewings.

I was pretty invested in the PT in '05. I don't watch them as much anymore, but when I do this film is obviously a highlight.
A less popular opinion I hold - ROTS also made TPM kind of mind-blowing to me. I mean, I liked Ep1 in '99 as a casual fan, but I watched TPM after ROTS came out and said "Ooooh okay. Now I get it." Maybe it was always the case for real fans, but to me I didn't at all comprehend it until the PT was complete.

For me the less acclaimed two PT films are pretty essential though, they build up a lot of what makes it impactful, but I can also see validation to the view that ROTS works fine on it's own. It is kind of a good standalone film that if you want it to be is also interwoven with the other five films. With the lore, themes, characters, the narrative itself, and with mirroring.

Like you implied, the score is so fitting for the story's operatic style. I'm pretty into music, so I think this played a very big part in establishing my obsession with this movie. I am very invested in the drama and Anakin's slide, but admittedly the music almost single-handedly carries the emotional weight at times.
Saying that, there are some very significant visuals to go with this, like the musical and visual transition from Obi-Wan and Padme discussing Anakin's turn - to Anakin looking out at the eclipse on Mustafar, and his tear reflecting he is holding regret but can't turn back now. To me it is very intentionally a dark-side "inverted" call-back to Luke's yearning as he looked at the twin suns setting in the next (or the first) movie A New Hope. It couldn't be a more contrasting moment. You pity the "father" doing evil things to attempt to hold onto the past here, his light metaphorically and literally being eclipsed by darkness, where alternatively we feel warmth and hope when the "son" is open-endedly dreaming of a infinitely lighter future.

I also think interweaving the breakdown in Anakin's personal life and the breakdown in the state of the galaxy was well done. You kind of have your micro and macro fall, symbolically moving simultaneously, and only really being resolved when the good guys win in the OT. The Skywalker family legacy Imo is done justice with this film.

The action scenes were awesome at first, but after watching them so many times I feel more like just appreciating them on a technical level rather than getting revved up or excited.
They are well done, if a little over the top in parts. But there is a lot to look at, I found myself noticing new visual details after many viewings.
My favourite duel will always be Luke's first encounter with Vader on Bespin.

The ST has brought some new elements to the table, I am reserving judgement until Episode IX is out, but I'm optimistic.
I hope they can approach it in a way that is true to the established saga yet still surprising. I know that is easier said than done.

 

ROTS is epic. I personally rank it higher than the ST. ROTS honestly is an awesome film. Still get the feels. I'd say within my top 3.

 

I just saw ROTS last night. I'd put it tied for 4th behind the OT and tied with RO.

 

4th best in the series right below the OT.

 

Definitely. Revenge of the Sith is pretty up there in terms of the Star Wars soundtrack.

I thought this before, but I feel like the film might be a little too...Star Wars-y for a newcomer. It’s a massive geek-fest filled with easter eggs and mythology. I think it might be too confusing for someone who has never seen it before.

I think that’s where my opinion differs from yours. To me, Anakin’s turn feels like a massively dumb and extreme decision on his part. I want to believe that Anakin is this sympathetic tragic character, but...I don’t. There were so many other options he could have taken that didn’t involve killing people. The fact that Palpatine manages to play everyone like a fiddle is less that he’s an evil genius and more that everyone on the Jedi Council is an idiot.

Honestly, I think the Prequel Trilogy would have been much stronger if Obi-Wan was the main character. Ewan McGregor is a great lead, despite not having nearly enough moments of grief in ROTS. Seriously, there are very few moments where Obi-Wan feels angry, upset, or even conflicted when Order 66 happens. However, it mostly comes down to the fact that Obi-Wan is just a more consistent character than Anakin. Obi-Wan just watching his friend slip away and the Jedi Order fall apart over the course of three movies would have been much more satisfying. I also think a love story (no matter how much it would have contradicted the OT) between Obi-Wan and Padme would have been far more believable.

 

How do you make Obi Wan the main character and love interest of Padme in a prequel set of films that are based on Anakin Skywalker and his children? That would not make any sense. Ewan did a great job but Obi Wan is not the focus of the 6 stories. The romance was not well written but blaming Hayden as Anakin for all of it to suggest changing the players in the romance isn't going to fix the script. I don't think it would have been better at all. Portman's line delivery was bad. She didn't generate enough emotion for me to honestly believe Padme was in love with Anakin. You know the scene on Geonosis where she confesses her love and Anakin says "you love me?" in disbelief? I was confused right along with him because her emotions did not come across as sincere at all through out the films in regard to Anakin. Changing her leading man to Obi Wan isn't going to fix her lackluster delivery. And the PT presented Obi Wan as the straight laced by the book Jedi who is begging his own master to not defy the Council in TPM. Not counting Clone Wars which came after ROTS, I couldn't (and really still can't) see Obi Wan having an attachment like a romance.

 

I would say generally speaking their relationship is not healthy. And his desire for her is not healthy. That's pretty much the point, and it was a big part of his downfall. Doesn't mean its not touching.

 

So much of the music is good.
"Anakin's dream" is an underrated one I think.
For me the tragic and depressing implications of Anakin and Padme's discussion about his first nightmare, is absolutely made by this music.
I can understand many people didn't buy into it, but I sympathise with Anakin largely because of the music in that scene.

True, good point.
ANH is truly the only movie you can watch as a standalone.

But I do think even with little understanding of SW, Revenge of the Sith is a pretty complete experience.
The viewer might not fully follow everything, but at the same time it has a lot of what to me makes Star Wars great.
It has a clear first, second, and third act. And the ending is pretty conclusive and final.

But yes, it is pretty fan-serving in many ways.
It's one of the reasons I love to analyse it, Lucas did say just before the film's release "I'm really counting on the fans with this one".
I think the first two of the PT and the entire OT was really on his mind making this film. I've even seen in one of the making-of documentaries that as Lucas was editing ROTS he had all six films playing simultaneously on one screen. His attention to detail is pretty admirable.

Fair enough.
I can understand this point of view, but to me the fantastical nature of the story and the world created makes me more forgiving of some of the possible logic flaws.
ROTS really helps create an epic myth.

I do think I would have preferred the originally shot turn, where Anakin was more certain in his decision at the moment he ultimately turns. But the problem with that is it may have made Anakin seem like an even bigger jerk, someone who was always destined to turn. I think it would make it harder to see him as a once good person. The final version involves a perhaps more supernatural element; like he sells his soul and the Vader persona takes over, he just flips.
In the final cut they indeed played up his gullibility. And the Jedi take a bit of a credibility hit compared to the original cut as well I think. They seemed a little more willing to get their hands dirty initially. Lucas definitely wanted them to come across as naive victims in the final film I think. It is what it is.

Anakin turning out of desperation, fear, and greed for me enhances the six movie arc. Watching 1-6 it makes it seem more likely that Luke is at risk to also turn.
I do feel sorry for Anakin, but yes it is largely his own fault. As Obi-Wan stated he allowed Sidious to twist his mind, because he was being told what he wanted to hear. And his fate on Mustafar is obviously to show that what he was attempting with his dark deeds doesn't work out, it backfires horribly. I do feel circumstances were set up in a way he had a harder time resisting the dark side though. It is kind of why I supersticously see Anakin's trilogy as "cursed" where Luke's trilogy is "blessed". It is fate.

But yeah, Palpatine is definitely painted as having a few more IQ points than Anakin or the Jedi in the version we got.
While on the subject, I did a script analysis on Palpatine's dialogue a while back.
It's here.
I tried to demonstrate how directly he is controlling some events in the PT. The Jedi were really painting themselves into a corner with their attempt to counter the Sith's machinations.

Hmm.
Ewan and Natalie did have a lot of chemistry, but it would have to be a very different series if that happened lol.
I think having it be largely about the Skywalkers is very satisfying. Obi-Wan is symbolically kind of just an observer to their epic story, despite being quite involved himself.
I don't think it would really fit his character to be centre-stage.
He does tellingly say to Luke on their farewell in ANH "Your destiny lies along a different path from mine."
The Skywalkers are the story.

 

I have stopped watching movies that only have fast-pace action. I think balance is better. Makes you invest in the characters. This is why I cannot invest to any character in the Marvel movies. It's action, action, action. With the Infinity War being the sole exception.

Why would they? There's nothing to hint that someone saw them, and they were quite often paired together in diplomatic missions because of their friendship and their history.

Oh man, never. I miss these transitions and I am so happy GL made the PT the same way.

Well first of all, they are Jedi that show no emotion, and second, that would feel so out of place in the SW universe.

Love is one of the strongest forces that drive people to act. His fall to the dark side because of love, is a perfect story element, if you ask me.

Palpatine has already told him that he is the only one that can help him save Padme's life. He is lying of course, as they never got to crack the riddle of making someone immortal, but Anakin doesn't know that, and Sidious is very diplomatic in his response, when he says that he is sure they can work together and figure out how to preserve life.

Empathy does not require knowing the person that dies or suffers

Unlimited power! Oh, also he wants to have total control of the entire galaxy. So he needs to kill all the Jedi.

Yes, they are indeed uber-powerful. They are not unbeatable nor immortal though. It was a well crafted plan that was in the works for more than 2 decades by Palpatine.

And leave Darth Vader alone? Or deal with him later? Every option they had at that point was risky and bad. They went for the option of dealing with things before they got out of control. Obi-wan succeeded (partially anyway), Yoda failed.

I don't agree. I think that at this point he still has Padme alive, so his ultimate goal is to save her life, and then maybe even overthrow him and assume power. It is the Sith way and mentality after all. But he has to be loyal to him until such events can happen. He needs him to save Padme, and in fact that's the exact reason he causes Windu's death.

If either of them try to save Padme, then their opponent gets the advantage and kills them.

Haha, it would really not..... it would render the entire saga invalid.

Why? If the kids are together, then upon discovery, they both die. Having them separate literally increases the rate of survival for at least one of them, by 100%.

To each their own, but for me it's most definitely not a mess at all. And I would never place any ST film over the PT films, that seems absurd to me. But again, different people different tastes.

 

Some of those observations I don't understand the issue with or questioning of. It was pretty clear to me through the existence of the OT what Palpatine was after in the PT. Ruling the entire galaxy.

Obi Wan explains to Luke why he and Leia were separated. Makes sense to me. As strong as Anakin was in the Force his offspring would be a threat to the Emperor and Palps would be looking to get rid of them.

Anakin's not insane. He was afraid of losing someone else he loved. George explained Anakin's loss of fear and how it became greed. I can certainly understand being afraid to lose someone you love as well as being affected by the death of someone like a parent.

As far as bromancey? I liked the teasing scene in the elevator when Obi Wan tries to calm Anakin down by bringing up the gundarks. Or when they argue over whether it was 9 or 10 times Anakin saved him saying Cato Nemoida doesn't count. Or the entire opening sequence of ROTS. The banter AND the fact that Anakin refuses to leave Obi Wan to die at Palpatine's suggestion and carries him unconcious throughout a falling apart spaceship.

 

It works...until it doesn't. Anakin fighting for Padme makes sense in theory, but it falls flat for me. For one, Padme doesn't take any form of a role in her own destiny. We never see her going out to try and see if there is something wrong with the baby. We don't see her making accommodations or making plans for her future. She's just completely helpless and we don't even see her deal with that. In my opinion, Anakin's "love" for Padme makes Padme a less active character in her own story and, in the end, kills her. What about Padme's love for Anakin and her love for her baby? What about her love of the galaxy?

Really? I disagree. Han and Chewie have a pretty great bromance going on. Then again, I'm a huge fan of Finn and Poe's relationship.

But that doesn't make sense to me because Anakin later finds out that he's the Sith Lord that he's been fighting against the entire time. I don't care how many times Anakin's visions came true, it should be obvious to him that he's being manipulated.

That's a fair point. But I still can't rap my head around why he stays with Palpatine after Padme dies anyway.

Love triangle. Sorry, not sorry.

Well, I was mostly referring to the fact that Luke is put on the same planet that Vader was on and is given the same last name. I'm pretty sure Luke and Leia Organa would have been much less obvious.

Fair enough. Like I said, I get why people like it an despite my grievances I do find it to be an enjoyable experience.

Anyone who chokes the person that they are supposedly madly in love with nearly to death is insane to me. Anyone who commits mass genocide and kills innocent children in cold blood is insane to me.

Hmm...I don't know. That chemistry between Padme and Obi-Wan is something else.

 

Not justifying the force choke, I just interpreted it as irrational paranoia stemming from how far and how fast he'd been inundated with the dark side in such a short period of time. It totally messed with his perception and he incorrectly thought Padme had betrayed him and brought Obi Wan to kill him.

 

Why would Padme fight for her baby? At this point, all she knows is that Anakin has some visions about her. But she can brush it away, because she might believe that Anakin is just having some bad dreams. I don't think Padme has the obligation to do something active about her baby or her life at this point. From her perspective, she is in a loving relationship, trying to help as much as she can for the preservation of Democracy and bring an end to the war. And then the universe collapses under her feet. If you REALLY love someone, it takes some time to let go. She had to figure out if Obi-Wan was telling the truth, and then make an effort to try to save Anakin. She failed. And her heart broke. And then she died.

I don't see where you disagree with me. These are not Jedi. They are all examples of bromances between non Force users

And when he finds out the truth, he turns against him. And wants to kill him, because he knows what a Sith Lord means. But he refrains. He delivers the news to the Jedi Council. This is one of my favorite scenes in the entire saga. Anakin doing THE RIGHT THING. I get the chills everytime, knowing that later he will mess it all up. But he doesn't really mess it up.... because Sidious has created a win-win situation. Anakin either lets Windu kill him and risks losing the love of his life which means everything to him, or he cuts down Windu (which he does). An alternate scenario would be Windu and Anakin bringing Palpatine to justice. But that's not working either, because he is the senate. Btw, that scene in AOTC where he sees a vision of his mom suffering, is not mind-tricked into him by the Emperor. It's real. And he goes to Tattooine, and sees his mom die in his lap. It played a pivotal role in him cutting down Mace Windu. George Lucas crafted a great sequence of events if you ask me. That past, brings the resolve to intervene when Windu and the other Jedi Masters attack Palpatine.

Eh, at that point he has just succumbed to the dark side. He is part man, part machine, and he actually probably knows that the Emperor will kill him if he resists or tries to get away. But even if that's not the case, it doesn't matter. When Anakin lost his love, he quit life. And returned to save his son. Dammit, I got the chills again.

Hahaha

Fair point, the decision to take him to Tattooine was a little bit weird, but in his defense, on Tattooine he will have:
1) His uncle and aunt taking care of him
2) Obi-Wan to protect him.
Also, Obi-Wan at the end of ROTS, does not know that Vader is alive, therefore he doesn't think anyone will search for the kids on this planet. Let alone the fact that at Padme's funeral she is seen pregnant, to fool the Empire from hunting down the kids.

 

Once you start down the dark path forever will it dominate your destiny.

Rule of Two

I don't see him staying with Palps out of some kind of loyalty because I am sure he figures out early on he's been tricked. There is really nothing left for him but the empire and power and rule. He begins to plot his revenge.

 

Yep - Its my second favorite SW film behind A New Hope. Yes, that means I rank it higher than Empire which may seem blasphemous around here but thats my opinion. That movie gets my heart racing and some scenes nearly make me cry. Huge emotional roller-coaster for me, Revenge of the Sith is!

 

Revenge of the Sith i rank 2nd after The Phantom Menace. Despite too much fan service, clunky dialogue and stilted performances, it manages to entertain. Its heart seems to be in the right place. I like it

 

It's my 2nd favorite Star Wars movie after Empire. ANH is 3rd.

 

Just got a new 4k UHD TV, a new 4k UHD Streambox, along with a new 4k UHD Blu-ray player, all with Dolby Vision with Dolby Atmos and DTS V:X sound. While my Blu-ray SW discs are not 4k, the new player has a very good upscaler, and I plan on rewatching my entire SW media Collection. It's been 20 years since my wife and I had a new media system, so we went all out for a decent package. ROTS is the one I want to see most of all because it's my favorite SW movie.

Below is TLJ 4k UHD Blu-ray on my new system.

 

It's the best Star Wars movie there is. A perfect blend of PT and OT themes and imagery. It was the perfect payoff for the six film saga. However, it could not be any of those things without the five movies that came before it.

 

Easily the best of the prequels, and jostling for third spot with Rogue One in my rankings behind ANH and ESB. Like it's predecessors, it's visually stunning (if a bit OTT at times) and the FX still hold up very well today. The overall dark mood and tone of this movie is absolutely spot-on, and is an incredibly emotional experience, the likes of which we hadn't seen since the OT, if ever in the saga. Ian McDairmind absolutely owns this movie, and cements his place as my joint favourite SW villain, alongside his apprentice, he's just so dastardly and devious in this (especially in the opera scene) and steals practically every scene he's in, especially towards the end. The battle with him and Yoda was a delight, and really upped the ante from his fight with Dooku in ATOC, and the fight with Obi Wan and Anakin was superb and emotional too. This really has everything I could want in a SW film.

The only slight letdowns for me are some really poor dialogue and choices they made, especially with Padme 'giving up on life' which was just weak and pointless, and I still think Anakins turn to the dark side should have been less sudden and more organic, considering we'd already had two movies to set this up. If not for these criticisms, I'd have this film really pushing ANH & ESB for top dog status.

 

How's this for a ranking? Vanity Fair rated "You were the Chosen One!" as one of the most influential scenes of the last 25 years.

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2019/01/25-best-movie-scenes?verso=true

Albeit, their reasoning is negative, in that the prequels were too reliant on green screens and CGI, and how that type of filmmaking went on to influence so many other big budget films.

However, they do get a good quote from Ewan McGregor:
“Episode III was all green screen: they had us on green disks on a green floor with a green background, and a guy on the floor rotating us like chickens, as we lunged at each other with lightsabers. What keeps you emotionally grounded is the other actor. Episode II, I was on my own, speaking to thin air. But this scene was harrowing for Obi-Wan. I lose Anakin, and we see the danger of what it might lead to in Episodes IV, V, and VI. For all my moaning about green screen, I did enjoy playing Obi-Wan and this link to Alec Guinness. George Lucas wanted to do something very different with the prequels. That’s why people felt cheated. It was upsetting when people would laugh and joke about it. Now, many years later, the prequels meant a lot to the generation that were kids then. So from smirking, cynical opinions, now I’m getting feedback from the kids they were made for. I’m really happy about that.”

 

Is that a recent quote from Ewan?