ST Rey & Kylo Ren in Episode IX

Ok then what do you need to see the screenplay for?


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The best way I can explain it is that I'm in love with and endlessly fascinated by The Last Jedi in the same way that James Cameron is in love with Titanic. The ship, not the movie. The TLJ screenplay would be a very interesting read.

 

Not the Knights of Ren comic but a preview to the Kylo Ren Age of Resistance issue.

 

Grabbing and ripping a woman's necklace off is generally frowned upon to say the least if that happens. I'm sure that's what happens to Martha Wayne in the various Batman stories/movies before her killer offs her. A variation of that happened in Chris Terrio's Batman v Superman.

 

Gee, if only there was a fandom that loves to shell out cold, hard cash for niche products like official screenplays. Seriously, I drooled over the OT screenplays in Suncoast for easily more than a year, slowly getting them one at a time when I saved up lawn-mowing money. And that was in the dark times. There are plenty of completionists and collectors who would buy that script in a second, and that's not even counting the reylos. It's pretty unusual for LFL to sit on a money maker like that, especially since it's already written.

The movie does speak for itself, and it's not good, but SW has a precedent for publishing the scripts. The fact that they have chosen not to speaks for itself as well.

 

it might well be.

It's just not a very well written Star Wars movie.

 

@godisawesome

When you present as though VIII doesn’t provide any reasons for her to rethink his potential value as someone who could possibly be the someone she was meant to bring back It feels like you’re not even considering the counter-evidence at all to the degree that I consider yours.

The first thing to remember is that she by way of Johnson doesn’t forget what he did the last time they saw each other. There’s just no evidence to that claim. She tried to shoot him the first chance she got with a blaster and told him he will pay for all that he’s done. So, all that rage you felt should be there is there.

But anger lasts differently for different people and eventually it gives way to why the Force is connecting them at all. Neither knows why. Really stop and think about that for a moment. If you were them what would you think when it seems like the universe itself has connected you. Even if you don’t know the answer I suspect most people — just as many in the audience were — would be curious and a little taken back and wondering what it all meant. Can you at least acknowledge that the idea of something beyond them connecting them is not an everyday experience and that it might plant a mystery box in their minds?

Secondly, she makes clear that she’s here for Resistance and personal reasons. She thinks she’s meant to bring someone back with this saber based on what Maz told her and she’s also looking for answers to this awakening that she doesn’t understand. Can you acknowledge that TFA placed emphasis on someone coming back if she took this saber? She thought it had to be Luke but what happens if he won’t? Was her assumption that it had to be Luke wrong? Why wouldn’t she at least be considering that if he’s an immovable object?

And as she finds herself in situations where all she can really do with these two is ask questions and listen and gather info on each of these two people with ties to the general and the saber and to force answers... who between them... seems to be more positively influenced by their interactions with her? Kylo Ren starts at such a low place in her mind that simply showing that he’s not frothing at the mouth with seething hatred constantly probably feels like taming a wild animal. With each passing interaction she’s seeing him listen to her more while every thing he tells her about Luke being afraid of him going to the dark in training and looming over him as he slept is happening to her. Now, combine that with the mystery box of the Force connecting them. It builds almost like one of those paranormal horror dramas where the protagonist is being haunted and learns the truth of what happened to the evil ghost long ago and eventually the initial injustice and truth is known. It’s constructed in its film language in that manner with her experiencing what he did first hand and relating to it all more and getting to that truth and finding some sense of purpose in being the mediator who sets this all free. And it matters to her because it’s a guardian abandoning someone in their care and coming to kill them. She was abandoned by her guardians.

How could these experiences not in some way change how she saw him or how she saw Luke? Luke began at such a high place in her mind that his disappointments opposite Ben’s “improvements” lead to recency bias.

What is she supposed to do here? Just ignore the same will of the force that up until this point has shown her this island and books and the saber? She isn’t sure what to do and it brings her to her dark night of the soul moment and the dark side cave which hammers her soul and makes her feel awful and the bad man pounces on it with a whole lot of listening and some consoling and eventually an extended hand.

Has she influenced and tamed this beast? Is she willing to allow his attraction to her to be the thing that guides him toward change and becoming the one who may come back? Would it not cross her mind that this saber is not something Luke wanted but is something Ben wanted? That Luke does not want to train her but Ben does? That she’s making progress (or so she thinks) with one person here and losing the other completely?

When you’re 19, untrained and most of your force knowledge came from a dark sider who the Force seems to be connecting you to again and you’re trying to read the tea leaves of the force and how it’s guiding you you might make some misguided choices and it’s par for the course that force visions mislead and once she got her she confidently thought she’d figured this whole riddle out.





MAZ: The saber. Take it.




REY: I'm never touching that thing again. I don't want any part of this.


And instead lead her to believe that unfortunately the one who she is destined to bring back is instead this guy.

The contrasts in the interest in the saber and desire to teach Rey are clear.







LUKE: Why are YOU here?

REY: Something inside me has always been there. But now it's awake. And I'm afraid. I don't know what it is or what to do with it. And I need help.

LUKE: You need a teacher. I cannot teach you.

REY: Why not? I've seen your daily routine. You're not busy.

LUKE: I will never train another generation of Jedi.

(Later)









LUKE: You went straight to the dark and didn’t even stop yourself.

REY: I couldn’t find you. Nothing from you.

LUKE: I’ve seen this kind of raw strength only once before. In Ben Solo.


REY: The galaxy may need a hero but I need someone to help me find my place in all of this.

Kylo Ren, who’s likely sensed her own darkness within her, shares his view that Luke feared his powers growing and what happened next.

KYLO REN: He sensed my powers growing as he does yours and he feared it.

(Explains his perspective of how he was set to go beyond abandoning him and came to kill him in his sleep)






(Rey reaches rock bottom)




Then, it all makes sense suddenly in her darkest night of the soul second act moment state and desperation to solve this riddle and bring back a resistance hero to Leia.

She sees the future. Snoke is dead and she and Ben are fighting together. The entirety of all of this leads her to toward trying to make that future happen.

She explains to Luke the future she saw. She explains how if he’s changing this could be how they win. Then she gives Luke one more chance.



And then decides that given all that she’s experienced with the Force and what she was told about someone coming back she will go to try and save the Resistance by converting Kylo Ren into an asset for the Resistance.

Rey arguably had more reasons to have confidence that she’d found her purpose and that her plan would work based on the vision she’d had than when Luke recklessly took on Vader.

The lessons for young people aren’t she was his meek girlfriend putting up with his crap. It’s simpler than that initially. It begins more so as a cautionary tale about misery loving company and poor decision making while emotional lows and the risks of bonding with people over pain. That’s how drug addictions start. That’s how sex with people later regretted begins. That’s how bad people get their hooks in. It grows from that toward negging for the same purpose and that can be learned from too.

 

Seriously. Nobody needs the lesson that it's a bad idea to bond with your assaulter/abductor/torturer because misery loves company. The idea that this is a message anyone needs to learn is condescending at best, but really it's just more flat out insulting.

 

Maybe they figured people won't buy what they can find online for free? Besides, it's not like Star Wars did that a lot, that annotated edition of the original movies notwithstanding.

 

I figure a good movie, that's well written, that has the words Star Wars on it, is a good Star Wars movie. It doesn't really need to be any more complicated than that for me. Does the title have "Star Wars" in it? is it good? Then it's a good Star Wars movie.

The Last Jedi is a very good movie.

Also, the "Annotated Screenplays" weren't really screenplays, IIRC, they were transcripts of the film, which is different than the actual screenplays.

Fandom itself is a niche thing comparatively. And the fact it's a niche doesn't mean it's not existent. It just never would have occurred to me to suggest that a screenplay's quality is best judged by whether or not a bound version of it is sold to consumers. Screenplays aren't typically considered successful based on whether or not there's a salable replica of it on store shelves somewhere. "See, I can buy it, it must be good" isn't how that typically works.

 

Last Jedi doesn't have a screenplay online, to the best of my searching abilities.

 

I was just about to comment that although I disagree with @Ender_and_Bean about most aspects of TLJ, I can appreciate the time and effort he/she puts into his/her posts, especially with the amount of resistence ( ) he/she gets for them. To me that takes gusto for sure.

 

And then?
I have been in a situation where I thought the person in front of me was going to kill me within a matter of hours. That's not a pleasant feeling, to put it mildly, and Rey was subjected to physical pain and intimate violation at the same time that she was subjected to that emotional torment. Having also been subjected to physical assault and intimate violation at various times in my life, I can assure you that Rey went through kriffing hell while Kylo tortured her. That leaves a mark on a person. It might not be visible to everyone at all times, but it demands more than the paltry lip service TLJ paid to the experience.

Not at all. TLJ would have worked infinitely better as a standalone, as the lion's share of its fault are due to blatantly ignoring established Star Wars.

 

I think TLJ is a very badly written movie, as in amateur hour, but that's the thing about good and bad. They're subjective opinions. I have no idea why there's no screenplay out there for TLJ, but I don't really understand why putting out a theoretically objectively bad screenplay would confirm its badness. What is the difference between the screenplay and a transcript? I'm asking because I genuinely don't know. I haven't ever sat down and read a screenplay.

 

And didn’t she get some of that we she kicked his butt in TFA

 

A transcript is when you watch the movie and transcribe the dialog and actions as they appear in the final cut.
A screenplay is what the directors, actors, photographer, crew, etc. are using as the blueprint for what they're making.

IIRC the Annotated Screenplays were formatted to kind of look like a screenplay, but the value was more in the annotations than anything else. The screenplays are interesting not only for how things got changed on the way to the final edit, but for the insight into what was originally on the page, why things got changed, and how the ideas were originally presented before they got translated by the actors and director.

 

Mythic characters and their dynamics aren’t meant to be taken so literally.





Taken literally the parables become strange but it’s through the extremes that humans have traditionally found thematic subtext and an aspect of the human condition where some truth can be found.

None of us imagined our father as a war hero who was betrayed and murdered by an ally only to learn that our father was space Hitler who choked mom, killed our mentor, killed children, and vaporized planets while cutting off our hands and telling us that they’ll come for sister next.

The specifics are purposefully taken to extremes by design so that more people find an aspect between the extremes about life that they find truth in. And people young and old will take different things away from the extremes of Vader and Luke or Kylo Ren and Rey.

 

In your opinion TLJ is a very good movie, many have the opposite opinion.. To me the first half of TLJ is a very good movie, the second half.. not so much.

Wow you seem to know so much. Are you a writer? What genre?

 

I am hoping it is him finally giving into the fact that he belongs on the side of the light, like the rest of his family. And that he has spent the last decade of his life fighting his nature, twisting himself into a cruel monster. Just like his grand daddy.

 

I'll post a response over in the Sequel Trilogy boards because I think mods are trying to wind down the TLJ discussions.

 

Responsible of you. I don’t go back there often. We’ve all said our piece. Trying to focus more on IX where possible at this point. Easier said than done obviously because of how the IX leaks reframe the prior events and episodes in new ways.

 

Okay, my mistake. Still, it's not like the franchise has a history of publishing them much in the first place.