ST Rey & Kylo Ren in Episode IX

Just want to say I'm really enjoying your straightforward, non-hostile responses right now lol.

(I'm guilty of hostility myself at times fyi)

 

I don't downplay this for Kylo.

I simply will not accept that "the mass murder father I never know" is an incredibly valid reason.

 

All other things in the movies being equal, there is no way Luke has compassionate love for Vader if he's not his father.

It doesn't matter if it's the idea of family that you have. It was important to Luke, and it's a universal concept that most viewers can identify with in an abstract way at the very least. Many can identify with it in a personal way. Family can mean different things, but as a construct, it has a shared core. Once the movie establishes the frame of reference for Luke and Vader as family in Luke's POV (and later Vader's), it's part of the story, and an integral and non-negotiable one at that.

 

Accept it or not, it doesn’t matter. It’s the story and it’s beloved and the ST exists only because of that story. Rey’s story somehow has to fit and belong in the same saga as that story.

 

It's really a very simple story.
"That guy is an evil monster and I would love to see him slowly and painfully die."
"Are you sure, orphan, that guy is your dad?"
"Um...um...I withdraw my previous statement."

The familial relation is the only reason that makes sense.

Feeling bad about the monster's sadness? I'd think the hero was mental if that was their motivation. Happily dance on the graves of your enemies. And hey even Rey does this when she woo-hoos the killing of random FO folk. Kylo being "sad" should get ten times the woo-hoo.

 

valid

Also valid.

 

I'm not discussing Kylo, nor am I dismissing the family connection. I wrote it was a component of it, but not strictly the reason for it....

If Vader hadn't shown Luke mercy, Luke merely just fled. You don't have enough set up for him, to try to redeem Vader...

 

You didn’t have enough anyway. Vader showed him mercy because he wanted Luke to join him on the dark side because of his power. Why did Luke care at all? Because Vader is dad. He wasn’t feeling complemented because Vader was nice by not killing him.

 

And Luke only went to Vader because he was endangering the mission by being there when Vader was so close. He was already in danger and recognized he might die anyway, so he was going to at least try to save his friends. He didn't up and ship himself into danger from a secret safehaven.

 

It's because(apparently all force users) can sense others inner emotions. It was enough to take a risk, he saids such on the bridge in ROTJ.

He feels this emerge again, when he is fighting him in ROTJ.

 

Well, the theory that "Rey wants to redeem Kylo, because he is the biological son of important people for her" would fit that narrative at some level.

 

If we want to get technical, it was Luke's fear of becoming Vader that gave him the strength to stop fighting him. At that point, it wasn't about Vader having good in him or not.

It does not, because the story hasn't established a narrative reason for Rey to gas, and the story has been wishy washy on where the OT3 stand on it at this moment.

 

You do realize Rey "shipped herself" into danger in a gambit to save her friends, yes?
What's the last thing she says to Chewie before "shipping herself in a box"?

Oh yea... it was about Finn.

 

Do I realize RJ tried to give Rey a reason to be stupid? Sure, he wrote the entire movie around getting Rey and Kylo to fight together apparently. But it does not hold up, because she doesn't know her friends are in immediate danger, and if she really cares, she would've gone back to Leia to work on a new plan.

 

that's not what we got from TLJ though at all.

we go from

"you monster, murderous snake, I don't even want to talk to you"

to

"wow hot bod, I mean uhhm can you cover up, you're confusing me"

to

"Directors quote not mine "hand sex""

to

we can still turn the tide, this is how we win.


TROS will have to step this up somewhat for it to be plausible, having them be siblings might be an answer...but hen there is the whole hand sex thing..."

 

She knows that the First Order will control all the major systems within weeks. She outright says this to Luke in their second conversation together. Hence, the urgency for Luke’s return.

And she also knows Chewie has been unable to make contact with the Resistance.

Whether her plan was stupid or not is beside the point. Her motive in turning Kylo was to save the Resistance.

If she didn’t find herself in the middle of an intergalactic conflict to save the galaxy, she wouldn’t have had any motivation to turn Kylo Ren. When someone is dropped into a new situation where the weight of the world is on their shoulders they tend to not act with perfect rationality.


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Weeks? Exactly. She doesn't know they are in immediate danger, and weeks is plenty of time to follow the beacon back to Leia and tell her Luke won't help. Heck, RJ could've used the beacon to get Rey on the supremacy without abandoning even an illusion of self-respect.

And do you want to talk about Chewie ubering his new buddy whom he seems to have affection for straight to dude who just killed his bff (and who happened to abduct and torture his new buddy yesterday)? We can talk about that if you want to.

 

Yea, let’s talk about Rey having agency and Chewie respecting her decisions.


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The theory is for TROS.

In TLJ, the reason why Rey wants to redeem Kylo is because she though (due to the" fake" visions) this could bring peace.

 

How do you know the visions were fake?
We never saw them, and it could have been something that will still come to pass in IX.

Totally agree it needs to be more than just a vision for whatever motive appears in IX.

Lol.

He tried...

 

yeah you go befriend the guy who killed one of the first people that treated you like an actual human being (who also happened to be that guy's father) yaas KA-WEEN SLAAAAY

 

So, about Episode IX...



With this scene as your guide... how do you guys expect Palpatine to try and turn Rey more to the dark side? What do you think he will say to her?

I’m very curious how this could play out. I feel like he might be playing them both. Promising Kylo his wish of making Rey Empress and offering Rey more a sense of purpose and family and that he’s changed his ways.

 

Uh huh. Because Vader was dad.

Again. You are totally trying to downplay the most important part of their relationship lol.

 

"Turn, young Rey. And we will rule together."

"Nah."

"Turn and I'll show you a power Luke never possessed."

"That seems pretty vague. You got any other pitches?"

"To be honest I used all my best lines on Luke's father. I've just been winging it ever since."

"I can tell."

*awkward silence*

"Oh! This is a good one I promise! Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise?"

"Oh my god. Really?"

*rolls eyes and walks out*

"Wait! Where are you going? It gets good toward the end..."